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Come WotLK content patch, what spec'll you all go?Follow
in terms of how everlasting afliction works... presuming it works like everyone elses, if you cast corruption with all procs and trinkets up, the damage deals then is how much damage it'll deal as long as you keep on refreshing the duration. about the wording of "5% bonus", actually I haven't checked or read anything about it stacking... but tbh, after the fiasco from the T5 4set bonus infinitely stacking, it'll either have a maximum stack of say.. 30% bonus +dmg to all ticks or it's actually 5% bonus damage across the entire spell, similar to shadow and flame's bonus to SB/inc/CB
wingsofscion the Sly wrote:
@mike - you may not care, but it is a concern of people who don't level on PvE servers or are interested in PvP. If you don't care about PvP, that's your prerogative, but there's no reason to bash those that do. In the same respect, there is no reason to get high and mighty because others don't care about PvP.
...and you didn't act high and mighty (and didn't flex your dinky) when you said "It's spiffing that you don't care about 2/3rds of your fellow Warlocks, it must be liberating, but when you get jumped by a Shadow Dance Rogue I fear your delusions of invincibility will evaporate quite swiftly." It's people with attitudes like yours that help me confirm my suspicions about PvPers.
Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 3:12pm by ohmikeghod
Funny, considering I didn't say that. That was Sinstralis. If you feel like insulting someone, at least make sure you're insulting the right person. And then don't fail at it.
For how everlasting affliction works, I believe I read something along the lines of it's 5% per tick of the normal duration of the spell. Corruption has 6 ticks I believe, so it will receive a flat 30%(6*5) increase. CoA has 12(?) ticks, so it will receive a 60% increase.
Edited, Oct 3rd 2008 1:59pm by Lathais
Edited, Oct 3rd 2008 1:59pm by Lathais
imbalanced if so :)
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..and you didn't act high and mighty (and didn't flex your dinky) when you said "It's spiffing that you don't care about 2/3rds of your fellow Warlocks, it must be liberating, but when you get jumped by a Shadow Dance Rogue I fear your delusions of invincibility will evaporate quite swiftly." It's people with attitudes like yours that help me confirm my suspicions about PvPers.
Mike, considering a reasonable proportion of your recent posts have been acidic and denegrative trolling, I'd hold your horses on that one.
I think it's fair for me to be a little irked when you say you a) don't care about PvP balance because all PvPers are 'neanderthals' (I guess that includes every PvPer in every MMO?) and b) don't care about any Warlock spec you dont personally use. That's your opinion, but that doesnt mean I have to pat you on the back for it. Not every person who PvPs is doing so out of some leftover Alpha Male instinct from 40,000 years ago, nor do they /spit/dance on their victims yelling "OMG LAWL QQ NUB". Some people (for example the entire population of Guild Wars) play it for the skill component, which is why so many people are passionate about PvP balance; if another class seems natively better than the one I play, skill becomes less of a factor than a random decision made three years ago when choosing a class.
My 'attitude' as you phrase it (although quoting the wrong person is fun times) is, I believe, quite widespread and since Warlocks are currently the paper to most classes nuclear scissors (except Shamans) it's a fair example. PvE soloing has always been easymode for a Warlock, I solo'd Socrethar in TBC, but feeling like you can 'take on anything' is only true as long as you don't take on anything you can't handle, a strong example being most other classes in the game at the moment.
That said, the recent buffs, particularly to Haunt, should help with that. At 100% healing, Haunt is now actually worth stopping to cast so Affliction may be in a reasonable place for PvP soon. Demo on the other hand got nerfed again so there's another 51pter sacrificed to the Balance Gods.
Ideally, I'd like to see Siphon Life made a passive talent effect like Heart of the Crusader for Paladins' whenever I apply a DoT effect, Siphon Life is applied too for the duration of the DoT. This would save me a GCD, and since Shadow Priests get the same treatment with Shadow Weaving/Misery I know the mechanic exists in game.
Sinstralis wrote:
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..and you didn't act high and mighty (and didn't flex your dinky) when you said "It's spiffing that you don't care about 2/3rds of your fellow Warlocks, it must be liberating, but when you get jumped by a Shadow Dance Rogue I fear your delusions of invincibility will evaporate quite swiftly." It's people with attitudes like yours that help me confirm my suspicions about PvPers.
Mike, considering a reasonable proportion of your recent posts have been acidic and denegrative trolling, I'd hold your horses on that one.
I think it's fair for me to be a little irked when you say you a) don't care about PvP balance because all PvPers are 'neanderthals' (I guess that includes every PvPer in every MMO?)
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and b) don't care about any Warlock spec you dont personally use.
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That's your opinion, but that doesnt mean I have to pat you on the back for it. Not every person who PvPs is doing so out of some leftover Alpha Male instinct from 40,000 years ago, nor do they /spit/dance on their victims yelling "OMG LAWL QQ NUB".
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Some people (for example the entire population of Guild Wars) play it for the skill component, which is why so many people are passionate about PvP balance; if another class seems natively better than the one I play, skill becomes less of a factor than a random decision made three years ago when choosing a class.
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My 'attitude' as you phrase it (although quoting the wrong person is fun times) is, I believe, quite widespread and since Warlocks are currently the paper to most classes nuclear scissors (except Shamans) it's a fair example. PvE soloing has always been easymode for a Warlock, I solo'd Socrethar in TBC, but feeling like you can 'take on anything' is only true as long as you don't take on anything you can't handle, a strong example being most other classes in the game at the moment.
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That said, the recent buffs, particularly to Haunt, should help with that. At 100% healing, Haunt is now actually worth stopping to cast so Affliction may be in a reasonable place for PvP soon. Demo on the other hand got nerfed again so there's another 51pter sacrificed to the Balance Gods.
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Ideally, I'd like to see Siphon Life made a passive talent effect like Heart of the Crusader for Paladins' whenever I apply a DoT effect, Siphon Life is applied too for the duration of the DoT. This would save me a GCD, and since Shadow Priests get the same treatment with Shadow Weaving/Misery I know the mechanic exists in game.
Edited, Oct 4th 2008 10:05am by ohmikeghod
Did you really try to bring up lore? For WoW? The lore for WoW is so shot in comparison to the lore for all preceding games, it's hardly worth even comparing it.
Yes, PvP is unnecessary, but people still enjoy it. If there is more than one aspect of the game that is appealing to people, then a business is going to work off of that. I, for one, am primarily a raider, but I do enjoy a little PvP every now and then. Enjoying a little competition doesn't make people neanderthals. If we were to go off of that principle, then all competitive games (football, volleyball, hockey, etc.) would be filled with naught but neanderthals. Do you see where your logic fails?
Yes, PvP is unnecessary, but people still enjoy it. If there is more than one aspect of the game that is appealing to people, then a business is going to work off of that. I, for one, am primarily a raider, but I do enjoy a little PvP every now and then. Enjoying a little competition doesn't make people neanderthals. If we were to go off of that principle, then all competitive games (football, volleyball, hockey, etc.) would be filled with naught but neanderthals. Do you see where your logic fails?
Ok Mike, I appreciate your reasonable response, I answer your points in good intention.
You got it in one.
I think I agree with you here if you replace 'PvPer' with 'ganker'. I have never ganked and never will, I don't even kill lowbies, but I still enjoy PvP for the unpredictability and strategic factor (in group play). If the emotional basis for wanting to PvP is good-natured (just wanting to play a more spontaneous and 'un-scripted' game) I don't see how you can sustain a genuine hatred for it. It's like comparing people who spar in martial arts tournaments to backstreet muggers who beat the **** out of unsuspecting, weaker victims.
Fair enough. It's a fair bit off-topic, but if you'd care to outline your opinion for me I'd be genuinely interested to hear it.
Well I guess we differ there, because Guild Wars players are human beings just like WoW players, and dismissing them as 'bloodthirsty savages' because their game is PvP-centric seems just a bit emotional knee-jerk pantie-wetting, not to mention grossly unfair profiling of thousands of people you don't know.
...as I myself choose to play it. Now I usually despise the relativism card because it renders moot any discussion, but 'the game' is only what each person chooses to make it. Some people genuinely enjoy exploring the WoW universe and finding shortcuts and lost areas, some people actually like farming and crafting and selling their stuff on the AH. Their game is different from mine, and irrelevant to my perspective, but no less relevant to them. Again, 'gankers' can go to hell because their game intrudes upon and destroys that of others, but Ganker and PvPer are not equivalent terms.
Again an aside, but in lore terms the WoW players are not the 'standing armies' of their respective factions, they are just 'adventurers'. The armies of Stormwind havent marched on Orgrimmar or vice-versa, so there exists a military armistice. 'Uneasy' truce doesnt mean the King's moustache twitches when the Orcs eat with their hands, it means (as in every 'uneasy truce' in military history) people tend to die occasionally by accident or design. If nobody dies, it's "peace".
Only in the sense that it now scales the same way it did for TBC, it's skewed to be awesome at 70 but suck more every level until 80. Kalgan's stated aim to restrain pet scaling ensures Demo will mostly suck except for its' support talents.
We agree! Let's hug! :D
mike wrote:
Sinstralis wrote:
I think it's fair for me to be a little irked when you say you a) don't care about PvP balance because all PvPers are 'neanderthals' (I guess that includes every PvPer in every MMO?)
You got it in one.
I think I agree with you here if you replace 'PvPer' with 'ganker'. I have never ganked and never will, I don't even kill lowbies, but I still enjoy PvP for the unpredictability and strategic factor (in group play). If the emotional basis for wanting to PvP is good-natured (just wanting to play a more spontaneous and 'un-scripted' game) I don't see how you can sustain a genuine hatred for it. It's like comparing people who spar in martial arts tournaments to backstreet muggers who beat the **** out of unsuspecting, weaker victims.
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That's your opinion - mine is even worse than what you've stated.
Fair enough. It's a fair bit off-topic, but if you'd care to outline your opinion for me I'd be genuinely interested to hear it.
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However, we aren't talking about guild wars, so that does not apply. I'll admit that there is a skill component involved in PvP, but will argue that it is an unnecessary one.
Well I guess we differ there, because Guild Wars players are human beings just like WoW players, and dismissing them as 'bloodthirsty savages' because their game is PvP-centric seems just a bit emotional knee-jerk pantie-wetting, not to mention grossly unfair profiling of thousands of people you don't know.
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PvP is unnecessary and irrelevant to the game itself.
...as I myself choose to play it. Now I usually despise the relativism card because it renders moot any discussion, but 'the game' is only what each person chooses to make it. Some people genuinely enjoy exploring the WoW universe and finding shortcuts and lost areas, some people actually like farming and crafting and selling their stuff on the AH. Their game is different from mine, and irrelevant to my perspective, but no less relevant to them. Again, 'gankers' can go to hell because their game intrudes upon and destroys that of others, but Ganker and PvPer are not equivalent terms.
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Not only that, but it's against the lore of "uneasy truce".
Again an aside, but in lore terms the WoW players are not the 'standing armies' of their respective factions, they are just 'adventurers'. The armies of Stormwind havent marched on Orgrimmar or vice-versa, so there exists a military armistice. 'Uneasy' truce doesnt mean the King's moustache twitches when the Orcs eat with their hands, it means (as in every 'uneasy truce' in military history) people tend to die occasionally by accident or design. If nobody dies, it's "peace".
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Haunt is one spell that is wonderful in the Beta in PvE play. I've never cared much for demonology, but didn't the boost that felguard got actually make it better than it is now?
Only in the sense that it now scales the same way it did for TBC, it's skewed to be awesome at 70 but suck more every level until 80. Kalgan's stated aim to restrain pet scaling ensures Demo will mostly suck except for its' support talents.
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I would love to see Siphon Life made passive, for reasons having nothing at all to do with PvP.
We agree! Let's hug! :D
Spells are nerfed every patch to better balance PvP, without any care for the effect they will have for the PvE'rs. All spells need 2 versions, 1 that only works when un-flagged and a 2nd version for when you are flagged. Look at the previous looks at Life Tap, it was giving to much mana back in PvP so Blizzard was going to make it % based. Until every Warlock _not_ on a PvP server protested on the O-Boards and the PTR forums. I'll admit, after spending 25-30g in repairs from a progression night I like to go into an Arena or BG to think but other things besides running boss strat through my mind till I fall asleep.
All in all I think that PvE needs to stop being forgotten about each and everytime Blizz thinks a spell is OP for PvP.
Oh and I'll definetly be using an Affliction/Demo variant of some sort, I leveled my warlock to 60 before they nerfed Demonic Sacrifice pre-tbc
All in all I think that PvE needs to stop being forgotten about each and everytime Blizz thinks a spell is OP for PvP.
Oh and I'll definetly be using an Affliction/Demo variant of some sort, I leveled my warlock to 60 before they nerfed Demonic Sacrifice pre-tbc
To get away from the arguments for a bit...
I'll probably be raiding Hyjal tonight as this spec. Any suggestions? I have the 1 pt in Suppression to make up for the removal of the innate 1% chance to miss, as I don't have spell hit gems just lying around.
Should be fun, I hope one of the other locks in the guild goes Affliction so I can compare DPS.
Edited, Oct 14th 2008 10:24am by DodoBird
I'll probably be raiding Hyjal tonight as this spec. Any suggestions? I have the 1 pt in Suppression to make up for the removal of the innate 1% chance to miss, as I don't have spell hit gems just lying around.
Should be fun, I hope one of the other locks in the guild goes Affliction so I can compare DPS.
Edited, Oct 14th 2008 10:24am by DodoBird
on beta/ptr there wasn't a raiding spec that could outperform 56/0/5 affliction. so that is what im going. Though chaos bolt destro came in a close second.
personnaly I'm going destro first, though if I get outdps'd by equally/worse gear locks (or better geared **** locks) who are afliction, then I'll respec afliction. but personnaly I see a fire nuke, shadow dot spec destro spec being the top dpser... but I haven't fully tested so sharn't know yet.
This is what I would go as if I still played.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ibxr0urukiAo0stZE
I play WAR now though, so can't say I've tested it, or will be.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 2:17pm by Lathais
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ibxr0urukiAo0stZE
I play WAR now though, so can't say I've tested it, or will be.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 2:17pm by Lathais
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=I0xrbuMAoVAoIstZV
^ Better
^ Better
I tried the fire build in the first post, same 54 in destro but instead 3/3 Imp. imp, 4/5 Demonic Embrace.
My sequence was:
Chaos Bolt > Soul Fire > Immolate > Incinerate(# depended on Heroism or not.) > Repeat. Lifetaps would be casted in place of Incinerate to keep stuff on cooldown and Immolate up. Am CotE Warlock for my guild.
Was able to do 1300 DPS with travel/targeting/transitions/phases.
Current gear in armory might be 202 capped as I was affliction for Tree farming.
My sequence was:
Chaos Bolt > Soul Fire > Immolate > Incinerate(# depended on Heroism or not.) > Repeat. Lifetaps would be casted in place of Incinerate to keep stuff on cooldown and Immolate up. Am CotE Warlock for my guild.
Was able to do 1300 DPS with travel/targeting/transitions/phases.
Current gear in armory might be 202 capped as I was affliction for Tree farming.
don't use soulfire. it's a dps decrease. it's got a lower dpsc than incinerate. also you want to try and get as many backdraft procs as possible.
so (this is not the opening rotation, just the rotation from that point onwards conflagorate > immolate > chaos bolt > incinerate*X times > conflagorate with CoA and corruption renews whenever needed.
so (this is not the opening rotation, just the rotation from that point onwards conflagorate > immolate > chaos bolt > incinerate*X times > conflagorate with CoA and corruption renews whenever needed.
Jenova, have you tried a shadow bolt spec at all? I'd heard that using an ISB spec and completely dropping Incinerate was better (using Chaos Bolt every cooldown, regardless of backdraft procs) was doing better than an Incinerate rotation. I've completely given up on raiding on my warlock for now; I'm just waiting til I have some money to get a server transfer.
Edited, Oct 21st 2008 5:54am by wingsofscion
Edited, Oct 21st 2008 5:54am by wingsofscion
honestly, I haven't tested it, but from what I can tell from simply glancing at the maths is that it won't match up. even prior to the content patch, for solo dps fire was better than shadow and this'll still be true. emberstorm alone pushes incinerate's dpsc to one above shadowbolt, mix in the molton core proc which has a much highier chance than ISB (and much more usage.. it'll affect dots as they're reapplied unlike ISB and has no charges.
no joke, shadowbolt is there for afliction and demo builds only. for destruction you're going fire for nukes and shadow for dots.
in terms of chaosbolt and the rotation, if you stick to it tightly, you can only use chaosbolt whenever backdraft is up, so no worries there and plenty more benefit.
Edited, Oct 21st 2008 10:13am by Jenovaomega
no joke, shadowbolt is there for afliction and demo builds only. for destruction you're going fire for nukes and shadow for dots.
in terms of chaosbolt and the rotation, if you stick to it tightly, you can only use chaosbolt whenever backdraft is up, so no worries there and plenty more benefit.
Edited, Oct 21st 2008 10:13am by Jenovaomega
conflagorate > immolate > chaos bolt > incinerate*X times > conflagorate with CoA and corruption renews whenever needed
So something like this?:
Immolate > Chaos Bolt > Incinerate*X > Conflagrate > Immolate > Chaos Bolt > Corruption > CoA > Incinerate*X > Conflagrate - Then repeat the bolded sequence minus the Corruption/CoA unless they need refreshing..?
Edited, Oct 21st 2008 2:58pm by FreeTrial
So something like this?:
Immolate > Chaos Bolt > Incinerate*X > Conflagrate > Immolate > Chaos Bolt > Corruption > CoA > Incinerate*X > Conflagrate - Then repeat the bolded sequence minus the Corruption/CoA unless they need refreshing..?
Edited, Oct 21st 2008 2:58pm by FreeTrial
basically yeah :)
Having given the raidspecs a look on live, my old Destrolock is seriously behind in DPS. I can stand there and slug Incinerates, but it just can't compete with Affliction builds, and Affliction builds cant compete well with Mages or Rogues anymore, which is a shame.
The saving grace is that in PvP, a destrolock can frontload reasonable damage as long as the target has no Resilience; once Res comes into play, destro PvP turns a bit sour. I've been able to three-shot a Warrior with a lucky Chaos Bolt/Immo+Conflag/Shadowburn combo, but he was in blue PvP gear; S2 and beyond gives me real problems.
Overall destrolocks are bad in concept, but they need a lot of love from the 'numbers pass' incoming to bring them into line in PvP.
The saving grace is that in PvP, a destrolock can frontload reasonable damage as long as the target has no Resilience; once Res comes into play, destro PvP turns a bit sour. I've been able to three-shot a Warrior with a lucky Chaos Bolt/Immo+Conflag/Shadowburn combo, but he was in blue PvP gear; S2 and beyond gives me real problems.
Overall destrolocks are bad in concept, but they need a lot of love from the 'numbers pass' incoming to bring them into line in PvP.
IM thinking going 51/0/10 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IbxrbhMIoVA0hstZE
would be a bit better than the 56/0/5 spec, reasoning:
Adding the 10% dmg bonus after a shadowbolt crits will make up for the lack of death's embrace, also the 2 in improved CoA will add nicely to contagion and haunt. Plus your shadow bolts become 10% stronger as well for 10secs or untill you drop 4 on the mob.
So, as I see it, Im getting a much larger increase in DPS on my DoT's with this spec as well as our main form of DPS Shadowbolt. Am I just simply missing something here? Or is it plausible? Cause before the patch, at 64 I was able to do 500+ DPS in a 5man as SM/Ruin but now thats been changed so its no longer ideal, would this make up for the lack of ruin with
Pandemic?
Edited, Oct 22nd 2008 2:28am by TrogdorTheBurninatora
would be a bit better than the 56/0/5 spec, reasoning:
Adding the 10% dmg bonus after a shadowbolt crits will make up for the lack of death's embrace, also the 2 in improved CoA will add nicely to contagion and haunt. Plus your shadow bolts become 10% stronger as well for 10secs or untill you drop 4 on the mob.
So, as I see it, Im getting a much larger increase in DPS on my DoT's with this spec as well as our main form of DPS Shadowbolt. Am I just simply missing something here? Or is it plausible? Cause before the patch, at 64 I was able to do 500+ DPS in a 5man as SM/Ruin but now thats been changed so its no longer ideal, would this make up for the lack of ruin with
Pandemic?
Edited, Oct 22nd 2008 2:28am by TrogdorTheBurninatora
ISB no longer affects dots, it's only direct damage spells, so you'll still be better off with deaths embrace in terms of a long run boss fight due to it increasing all your shadow damage.
Confirmation on ISB not affecting DoTs? I have not seen a blue post about this, just that ISB is your spells only. ISB would literally be useless without a good amount of haste if it didn't affect DoTs. Last I heard, it still affects DoTs.
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