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#27 Aug 27 2008 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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TheRogueX wrote:
Speaking of Ret Paladins and how much they 'suck' at DPS:

Nhul vs Brutallus

I distinctly remember, somewhere, seeing another raid where he was 3rd or 4th in overall DPS stats.

We won't even count the rest of his utility, such as CS, Buffs, etc.


Interestingly enough, he's in mostly S3 gear. That's half the culprit, lack of PvE gear options. Hell, half the kara prep guides for Ret list pvp gear as the best you'll get before and all the way through kara.

His armory profile
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Silver+Hand&n=Nhul

Edited, Aug 27th 2008 1:41pm by NephthysWanderer
#28 Aug 27 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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he's wearing his pvp gear right now probably because he just did some pvp! that gear will not get you those numbers in pve no mater how skilled your are.
#29 Aug 27 2008 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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DPS on Brutallus is entirely dependant on who takes burns. A warlock might be capable of more dps but if he takes a burn that is going to cut dps.

Not too belittle his accomplishment but against a demon fight boss which is normally easy on Melee dps (more so when you have a bubble or CoS) that only lasts six minutes it does stack the odds for him on the meters.
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#30 Aug 27 2008 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You cant change other items mid combat as far as I am aware. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough


You can change your libram as well but armor, rings and trinkets cant be changed mid combat.

I have a macro that equips my healing mace, shield and libram then BoL's my current target and throws a holy light there way. All I have to do is taget the tank and hope my mp is big enough to survive the fight.
#31 Aug 28 2008 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I was actually looking at this last night...since both weapon changes and libram changes in combat trigger global cool downs:

How do you write a macro that does all those things? (partially just my ignorance, i suspect, but I thought macros that involve GCD can't be one button clicks)

Is it worth the 4.5 second delay to equip a mace, a libram, and cast BoL if the main healer is dead?
#32 Aug 28 2008 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I figured since a few others Ret's posted there links here I would post mine

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Greymane&n=Brokk

Now that I am geared the way that I am saving badges to the the 150 badge axe from the SSO badge vendor. Then I will start to replace all my gems with the epic strength ones.

My guild is raiding TK, SSC, and some Hyjal right now and during trash fights I average around 550-580 dps. But when we get to a boss fight and I work through my whole rotation of judgements and such I can get up over 800 dps for that fight I burn up a lot of mana pots to do it but it is worth it. On the total damage done I am up in the top 5 for most every boss fight.
#33 Aug 28 2008 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I was actually looking at this last night...since both weapon changes and libram changes in combat trigger global cool downs:

How do you write a macro that does all those things? (partially just my ignorance, i suspect, but I thought macros that involve GCD can't be one button clicks)

Is it worth the 4.5 second delay to equip a mace, a libram, and cast BoL if the main healer is dead?


dont know, but Outfitter does it in 1 swoop.


Quote:
I figured since a few others Ret's posted there links here I would post mine

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-...amp;n=Brokk

Now that I am geared the way that I am saving badges to the the 150 badge axe from the SSO badge vendor. Then I will start to replace all my gems with the epic strength ones.

My guild is raiding TK, SSC, and some Hyjal right now and during trash fights I average around 550-580 dps. But when we get to a boss fight and I work through my whole rotation of judgements and such I can get up over 800 dps for that fight I burn up a lot of mana pots to do it but it is worth it. On the total damage done I am up in the top 5 for most every boss fight.


man, you need to finish your Aldor rep for the proc and the chant. then you need to finish enchanting for the rings and JC for a trink and Crimson Suns. then you need to either a) not waste 10 talent pts for Kings or b) gear up with less +Hit(like lose Romulos). i'd estimate you are losing at least 15% potential dps.
#34 Aug 28 2008 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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EyeOfTheWolf wrote:
I figured since a few others Ret's posted there links here I would post mine

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Greymane&n=Brokk

Now that I am geared the way that I am saving badges to the the 150 badge axe from the SSO badge vendor. Then I will start to replace all my gems with the epic strength ones.

My guild is raiding TK, SSC, and some Hyjal right now and during trash fights I average around 550-580 dps. But when we get to a boss fight and I work through my whole rotation of judgements and such I can get up over 800 dps for that fight I burn up a lot of mana pots to do it but it is worth it. On the total damage done I am up in the top 5 for most every boss fight.


forgive me for being incredulous, but isn't 550-580 dps really low for trash fights in tk/ssc/hyjal? and 800 for boss fights feels really low too. i get almost 700 in 5mans and usually about 800-900 in 10 mans without an enh shammy. 25mans w/o an enh shammy i'm usually between 1k-1.2k dps. add an enh shammy and its even higher (been a little while since i've had an enh shammy so i can't give better numbers for that). i've never been in SSC or Hyjal though, so i don't know if there's something that lowers your dps there. TK is as far as i've been so far, but someday i hope to be good enough for SSC/Hyjal/BT/SWP. i don't think i'd have been invited to TK even with 500 trash dps though. maybe with 800 dps on bosses, but only barely.

i can't look at your armory cause i'm here on my cell phone and armory doesn't display. but you might check out tommyguns suggestions. the badge axe and 10str gems would be really good though. I keep my romulo's vial, but only in case i ever want to take all my points out of prot...


Edited, Aug 28th 2008 1:15pm by toolofjesus
#35 Aug 28 2008 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Thx for the advice to improve my toon. I know that I am slacking with the aldor rep I have been playing my lock most of the time now I just do some dailys, kara, and farm with this guy now. That is when we are not raiding.

The spec I have is from when I was going to pvp for some gear but I did not enjoy that much and just have never changed my spec. Just out of curiosity what is a good spec for a raiding ret pally?
#36 Aug 28 2008 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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your spec is right on. your gear is the issue. when rolling on an "upgrade" make sure that piece doesn't have too many stat pts in +hit. for you now is a good time to look for +ArP and +haste.
#37 Aug 28 2008 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Tsarducci wrote:
I was actually looking at this last night...since both weapon changes and libram changes in combat trigger global cool downs:

How do you write a macro that does all those things? (partially just my ignorance, i suspect, but I thought macros that involve GCD can't be one button clicks)

Is it worth the 4.5 second delay to equip a mace, a libram, and cast BoL if the main healer is dead?



I takes the length of one global cooldown, unless you are lagging very badly.
#38 Aug 29 2008 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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How can that be the case? Equipping a libram, equipping a weapon, and casting BoL ALL trigger a GCD in combat. How do you do it such that you only trip one cooldown?
#39 Aug 29 2008 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that because it is a macro it is all done under one and therefore treated as one GCD.

Certainly when I change gear using itemrack, I can change a whole suit say 14 items in one go using one GCD.

Also on a pally judgement macro I use I judge then cast a new seal in one GCD

I also know that on my hunter I have a pet attack, hunters mark and autoshoot on a macro and one GCD.

So I think it must work if you have it done correctly, I think that you are looking at it from each individual action and the respective GCD rather than one action comprising of a number of actions and one GCD.

Does that make sense?
#40 Aug 29 2008 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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No, it doesn't. There are no GCDs for equipment swapping OUT of combat, which is what you're doing if you swap your whole gear set at once.

Judging does not trigger the GCD, only casting a seal, so there's only one GCD in that macro, on the second cast, which is fine.

Similarly, in your hunter macro, only hunter's mark triggers a GCD, pet attack and autoattack do not.

In the libram switch/weapon switch/blessing cast macro, all three things individually trigger a GCD. I know, for example, that I can't make a macro to mount and switch to crusader aura in one click, because those are both GCD triggering actions. I can make a macro that does it in two clicks (button once to mount, again to aura). Do I not understand something about macro writing? Can the person who says they have a macro that does the weapon/libram/blessing post it so I can see what I don't get?
#41 Aug 29 2008 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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arthoriuss wrote:


Also we have our undead aoe too, Holy Wrath, which I find most pallies never use. That spell works wonders in boosting your dps in kara. There are many multi mob pulls where your fighting undead mobs of more than 8-10. With a cooldown of 1min and around 550 holy damage unbuffed per mob in the vicinity you can use it at least once every aoe trash pull with some success. 10 mobs at on ave 550 damage each unbuffed is a high amount that adds to your dps. With a spell damage set on Holy wrath, consecrate,and exorcism become powerful moves for a ret pally.

I swapped over to Ret about 7months ago and love it. I was holy as I levelled then went prot at around 55 and had a ball. My pally was the first character I levelled to 70 and right now I am levelling a mage. This mage is level 62 right now (some blues but mostly greens) and in a way its disheartening to see the crits and damage that I can do with ease on a 62 mage compared to my eppiced out 70 Retadin.


I find that too many Paladins ignore holy wrath as well. What I did to MAKE myself use this spell on appropriate fights is I went to solo Stratholme as a Prot. If you do NOT use holy wrath, the dead side takes FOREVER! Pull 10-20 ghouls/skeletons and USE HOLY WRATH every time it is up! It hits EVERY undead and demon within a 20-yard radius... c'mon! USE IT!
#42 Aug 29 2008 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Holy wrath's problem is too large of a radius--has a tendancy to draw additional pulls, which can be suicide.
#43 Aug 29 2008 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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There 's a nice marco that uses holy wrath and then bubbles immediately afterwards lol. Only way I would dare to use it in a group.
#44 Aug 29 2008 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Tsarducci wrote:
No, it doesn't. There are no GCDs for equipment swapping OUT of combat, which is what you're doing if you swap your whole gear set at once.

Judging does not trigger the GCD, only casting a seal, so there's only one GCD in that macro, on the second cast, which is fine.

Similarly, in your hunter macro, only hunter's mark triggers a GCD, pet attack and autoattack do not.

In the libram switch/weapon switch/blessing cast macro, all three things individually trigger a GCD. I know, for example, that I can't make a macro to mount and switch to crusader aura in one click, because those are both GCD triggering actions. I can make a macro that does it in two clicks (button once to mount, again to aura). Do I not understand something about macro writing? Can the person who says they have a macro that does the weapon/libram/blessing post it so I can see what I don't get?


Fair enough on your first 3 points, out of combat has no GCD, judging doesn't cause GCD and only hunters mark does have a GCD, that explains why I didn't think that they did.

The libram/weapon switch/blessing/superman suit was not one of my things, that was arthoriuss.

arthoriuss wrote:
You can change your libram as well but armor, rings and trinkets cant be changed mid combat.

I have a macro that equips my healing mace, shield and libram then BoL's my current target and throws a holy light there way. All I have to do is taget the tank and hope my mp is big enough to survive the fight.
#45 Aug 29 2008 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Tsarducci wrote:
Holy wrath's problem is too large of a radius--has a tendancy to draw additional pulls, which can be suicide.


Holy Wrath is having its radius reduced and it's cast time bumped down to instant. Plus its CD is being reduced, so rejoice all! You'll actually be able to use this bad boy come Wrath :D

EDIT: oh, it also provides a 3 second stun to affected targets. Source.

Edited, Aug 29th 2008 8:03pm by Maulgak
#46 Aug 30 2008 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
Let me ask you this: Would you rather do 2000-3000 damage per swing if you get critical hits OR would you rather swing a crappy 41 DPS weapon with a low damage seal? Need I say more?
#47 Aug 30 2008 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Holy Wrath is great, but its is 685 mana which as a Ret pally is about 1/10th of your mana pool. Also only a handful of encounters where it is useful and more often than not the chance to break CC completely makes it useless. That will change in Wotlk but as of right now its like proclaiming the usefulness of Hibernate for druids.

PvE ret pally is pretty simply, the hit cap is low. Stack Crit and Str then get a nice slow swing speed weapon, have a seal/judge macro assign CS to your scroll wheel and win. There is absolutely no challenge to it at all. It is not a Spriest rotation, its not a tank job and its not healing. Like I said I am a healer who has a ret off set I have from BT/Hyjal and I came in the first time in ZA/S4 loot and pushed 1k dps with no real effort. Maxdps.com is a good gauge of what is better than what but its its a tool, not a bible take your own gameplay and gear choices into account and make the best of what you have. It is by no means the most math intensive class, or skill intensive.

PvP is where skill as opposed to gear will shine.

/shrug


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#48 Sep 01 2008 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Just to clarify.

Quote:

You can change your libram as well but armor, rings and trinkets cant be changed mid combat.

I have a macro that equips my healing mace, shield and libram then BoL's my current target or throws a holy light there way. All I have to do is taget the tank and hope my mp is big enough to survive the fight.


This is what I should have written. You cant do both without causing the GCD to interrupt the macro, but you can do one or the other. I have a macro set up for the 3piece equip + BoL and another for the 3piece equip + holy light. Apologies for the confusion there.


edit: typing just doesnt seem to be my strength.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2008 12:42am by arthoriuss
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