Ret hatersFollow

Ok, retribution palladins, how do you deal with all the specism out there? I found this wasn't a problem much at all while leveling, but now that i'm at lvl 70 and running the high level instances and some heroics, I get electronically spit upon with annoying frequency. Specific incidents include someone who'd been looking for DPS for a while ignoring me when I asked to join, eventually telling me "oh, i don't group with retribution palladins because some of them are terrible." The other day, my guild grabbed a PUG warlock DPS to round out a heroic run, who joined, said "is that a retribution paladin?" and left immediately after being answered in the affirmative by the party leader. I've been interrogated by people about my DPS before a run, who **** and moan about terrible ret pallys.

And, I think to myself, after all these incidents, like i've never ever met a terrible rogue/shammy/hunter/etc. I do good DPS...and true, ret pallys won't ever match a rogue for pure melee dps (at similar gear/compitence levels), but are the ret haters unaware of everything else pallys do, like buffs, off heals, ad DI wipe insurance? Why the knee-jerk loathing of retribution?

It's a fad, everyone needs a scapegoat. Remember back when druids were laughed out of groups? Or the name huntards?

The truth is that we have to be geared better than the group is expecting, using pots, food, and all of our abilities. We don't have AOE, a huge factor to lower overall DPS. We don't get credit for the +3% dmg everyone else gets nor the +10% our pld tank gets.

It will pass eventually. Until then gear up and keep dropping amazing crits.

Great PvP gear Hoyl, but some of your spec needs work for PvE and you are nowhere near the hit rating needed. Unless your were talking about dps in pvp. Drop Parry and add Fanaticism and Improved Judgement.

Yeah that's basically something that has to be put up with until WotLK when Ret mechanics are finally fixed. My Paladin has an almost complete T4 epic DPS set and still no group will accept a Ret Paladin.

I have had groups tell me I need 1800AP to join a Karazhan group, been required to submit a full gear list including AP, crit AND hit, and then had been told "Seems low...".

Basically Retadins without a sympathetic guild are in for a really rough ride.

Fortunately, WotLK seems to be everything a (PvE...) Retadin could ask for, and should go a long way towards redressing the balance. That said, Death Knights will likely fill melee DPS slots better...

Sanc Aura IS 2%, but we also give the raid (THE WHOLE RAID), 3% crit, and give the paladin tank some serious threat to work with.

The hit readout in your melee summary does not as far as I know, include the +3% bonus from precision.

I guess I'll have to resign myself to being my guild's prot pally's sidekick :) He certainly enjoys how easy threat generation is with me riding shotgun.

As for BoM--do you use it in heroics/raids? I find if I'm not running wisdom, I have to break to mana up between every pull.

playing a Ret is easy, playing a Ret well is not easy.

there are pluses and minuses to having a Ret in the group/raid. the obvious downside is middling DPS as melee and lack of CC. the upside is buffs, burst DPS, and versatility. on in and out raid bosses, burst is sometimes better than casters. sometimes in an instance a boss will require another healer(switch to your heal set). sometimes in an instance a boss will require an OT(throw on RF and maybe a shield). adjust to the groups needs but still remember your main roll was for dps.

be aware that since Ret is so gear dependent, before you get geared you will be more of a liability than an asset.

This is why.

We a are the ugly duckling of dps in wow.

Answer this honestly.

If you were filling in one dps spot in your pug and had the choice of a warlock or ret pally which would you choose without having seen either persons gear?

At the moment Ret can't compete with a good rogue's dps, mage's cc or the combination a warlock can give. I pug as ret and that is just the way it is.

Best advice would be to make friends with some good pally tanks, feral druids, enh shamans that usually run heroics/kara around the same time as you.

Just remember that this was the case for prot pallies a year or so ago and now they are widely accepted in raids and loved in heroics.


Edited, Aug 26th 2008 2:03am by arthoriuss

Warlocks give Soulstones, Healthstones, better DPS, and in certain cases a health boost to the tank(s) (even if it's just 10 mans, yes some people put an Imp in the tank group =P). If I was putting together a raid and didn't have either, I think it would really depend on what we DID already have, and which additions were more needed, but on general principles, I'd probably choose the Lock.

As for the original topic: even those who know me as a great Tankadin for the most part wouldn't take me along on runs if I were to spec Ret. It's not because my gear is bad (it's not GREAT, but it's fairly decent), or that I preform low, but because of the stigma. Yes, Protection Paladins had this stigma before, and rightly so. We used to be horribad tanks, but now that we have been given the tools necessary to tank, we are very, very viable in more than just 5-mans. Rets on the other hand still have issues about them, which are getting fixed, at least to a certain degree, in the next X-pak. While some Rets may be good, the majority I would say are not: people know this and let it blind them. I think they'd rather not take the chance on finding a good Ret only to be disappointed again.

And the whole Huntard thing: that still applies. It wasn't a fad =P
(I play Hunter too, so no Hunters flaming me for that :D)

Also we have our undead aoe too, Holy Wrath, which I find most pallies never use. That spell works wonders in boosting your dps in kara. There are many multi mob pulls where your fighting undead mobs of more than 8-10. With a cooldown of 1min and around 550 holy damage unbuffed per mob in the vicinity you can use it at least once every aoe trash pull with some success. 10 mobs at on ave 550 damage each unbuffed is a high amount that adds to your dps. With a spell damage set on Holy wrath, consecrate,and exorcism become powerful moves for a ret pally.

I swapped over to Ret about 7months ago and love it. I was holy as I levelled then went prot at around 55 and had a ball. My pally was the first character I levelled to 70 and right now I am levelling a mage. This mage is level 62 right now (some blues but mostly greens) and in a way its disheartening to see the crits and damage that I can do with ease on a 62 mage compared to my eppiced out 70 Retadin.

I believe Blizzard are getting rid of it and buffing Dev and Ret auras.

Edited, Aug 27th 2008 10:35am by arthoriuss

Indeed there is a stigma for ret pallies and it is both a combination of the very few who can play a ret pally well and that fact that a lot of the people who play simply cannot understand simple things such as the fact that DPS is not the be all and end all of things.

I have mainly been ret, though I have 3 full sets of gear (Ret/Holy/Tank) and respec often as I enjoy each of the aspects of a pally. For instances/heroics though I go holy as a) healers are needed and b) healing is a really easy job and I am a good enough healer to make sure that we get through with no wipes (that I as a healer can avoid).

If a ret has a dps class mentality which can be broadly summed up as 'zomg dps, leet, yeah, zomg i r teh pwn must press button more and harder, i r teh top dps.' Then you as a ret will fail miserably.

If you make (clever) use of the abilitues you have you can make sure that the run is simple and easy, BoP the trigger happy dps when needed, chuck on your tank set to off tank or your healing set to heal, buff everyone and also....stun mobs with your hammer! this can prevent a dps/healer from getting squished, can give the tank 6 seconds to regain some threat and can also mean that that mob cant damage the tank for 6 seconds, making it easier for the healer.

There are loads of dps out there so you can pick and choose who you want, it is laughably easy to replace if one drops from the group, healer and tank are different matters entirely.

I use ret to do soloing and to kick a55 in pvp, I use it in instances where I know people and they know me otherwise I respec as stated.

It is unfortunate that 2 of the best dps classes (rogue and mage) are also the biggest whiners the universe has ever known so when you go into the grp as a ret they tend to start squealing straight away.

Also if you are ret in a group and focusing soley on dps then you are not playing a pally right, as ret I have put my healing gear on and healed our tank and 1 dps through blackheart in Slabs when the healer and dps got killed.

You are a ret pally, you can do more than just dps and you know that, if you are a good, well played pally then you WILL do more than just dps.


(gonna stop now, wrote loads and don't want to crit anyone)

Mid combat I have on multiple occasions dropped to healing the tank if the healer dies...usually, I can accomplish that on ret without switching gear (cause you can't, mid combat) if the fight has gone on a while...if necessary popping a mana potion and resorting to LoH can usually get me to the end of a fight.

Speaking of Ret Paladins and how much they 'suck' at DPS:

Nhul vs Brutallus

I distinctly remember, somewhere, seeing another raid where he was 3rd or 4th in overall DPS stats.

We won't even count the rest of his utility, such as CS, Buffs, etc.