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Maces or axes in WotLK?Follow

#1 Aug 24 2008 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I've just reached 375 in BSing on my warr and was ready to make my epic mace, but then looking at the WotLK talent trees it seems that warrior maces are getting a serious nerf. Is it worth putting all the mats into creating the epic mace and then rerolling axesmith in WotLK, or should I accept a short-term limit in axes at the mo, but be ready with the big hitter when the expansion comes out?

I'd like to get an idea of what others think. I'm sure BSing is due for a boost so I'd certainly like to stick with weaponsmithing of some sort, and the swords have never really appealed, as maces or axes are definitely cooler!
#2 Aug 24 2008 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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842 posts
2h sword has also always been the clear winner from a raiding standpoint, with a slight edge to 2h axe but only if you're an orc and absolutely need the 5 expertise. even then, sword spec extra attack procs > +5% crit as far as rage generation and dps go.
#3 Aug 24 2008 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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233 posts
OK thanks for that. I wasn't sure quite how one stacked up against the other. I guess I'll also have to see how sword spec will be changed in WotLK (if at all).

I guess this also means I'll have to lvl my 2h sword as I haven't wielded one of those since the Cyclonian quest reward.

Thanks again
#4 Aug 24 2008 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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8,779 posts
poleaxe spec actually got a neat little buff in the form of an impale-like boost to crit damage. id put the two about on par now personally. mace spec on the other hand, is again a dead skill.
#5 Aug 25 2008 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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the 6 second internal cd on extra attack procs and hamstring no longer triggering extra attack procs = fail for sword spec in raids.

why must everything be balanced around pvp...
#6 Aug 25 2008 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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based on info taken from the most recent beta builds, theyve removed the internal CD on sword spec.

but yes, no procs off of hamstring sucks. whats even worse is now we cant sacrifice a GCD+rage to knock out a shammy totem. thats what ill miss most about hamstring damage.
#7 Aug 26 2008 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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233 posts
So just to get this clear, is it being suggested that despite the proposed nerfs to hamstring, 2h sword still seems to be the best bet. Poleaxe is better than it was and maces are now last on the list?

Is this also the case for the arms warrior in pvp too?

Sorry about the questions but having only ever wielded one type of 2h weapon from mid 50s onwards I don't have the experience to say that x is better than y, and while I agree that the best way to find out is to wield each weapon type I'm not sure whether I'd like to spend all that time grinding weapon skill on a weapon class that I'd soon find myself abandoning anyway.
#8 Aug 26 2008 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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pretty much.

sword is probably best for pvp still, but axe spec looks like, with impale, it has enough to cut through resilience (i.e. youll get the full 200% damage from crit, instead of a reduced amount), at least on specials.

axe is tops for pve tho, with sword second, and mace, again, a distant third.
#9 Aug 26 2008 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
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608 posts
If they're going to stick with Mace Spec the way it is, I can't imagine any reason to go for it .. if it's rage gen they want, then a 5% chance (which seems to be the standard proc rate for weapon specs) to get 50 rage, or maybe even a full rage bar, would be the minimum, otherwise it's useless.

As for sword vs axe (pre Wrath) ... oh boy, the arguments I've read about that .. however, at EJ, I once saw someone do some extensive testing around which spec produces more damage, and it turned out the sword did more damage over an hour (something like 0.1% more). The logic being that if both have a 5% chance to proc, then they both have a chance to deal double damage, which pretty much makes them equal. The difference is that the extra proc from sword can crit ... that's an extra bit of damage that you can hope for with a sword that you can't with an axe.

HOWEVER, with the changes to axe spec for wrath - extra crit damage with your axe - it clearly pulls ahead than the sword in PvE. PvP - you still want the sword ... relying on crits in PvP is not a good idea ... an extra attack will not be gimped by resilience.
#10 Sep 09 2008 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
Bump....


How about with the new Armor Pen on the Mace talent? Do you think that makes it any more viable in PvE now than it was before?

/discuss...again.
#11 Sep 09 2008 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
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2,580 posts
It remains to be seen until some testing is done as to whether it will be better than sword or axe spec. Depending on the mob (some have more armor than others so 15% will vary) it looks promissing. We need to find out how much armor raid bosses have to make a comparison. All in all though it looks promissing.
#12 Sep 10 2008 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
If the new talents come soon, that 15% arp is gonna be hot. Just did some math on older boss Armor numbers and 15%, while procced, does more than Exe when it's up. If a boss has around 7500 armor, which I think that's a safe number iirc, 15% of that is 1125 Armor Penetration for the duration. Of course some bosses have more and some have less, but either way you look at it most MS/BF raiding warriors have over 1k passive ArP anyways, and for the ones that don't, this will be a nice boost on top of executioner and sunders, etc.

I don't remember if there can be too much ArP or not, so that would be a deciding factor as well. We'll see I guess. Hopefully there are some tests done on it and can be somewhat viable.

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