20/0/41 shadowstep build; viable for raiding as RDPS buff?Follow

You could raid as ShS, but you will be greatly gimping your raid because of the lack of dps. The ever so popular 20/41/0 Combat sword is THE best raid dps spec, and should always be used unless you are just going to do a BoJ run in kara and are WAY overgeared for it and have been doing pvp.

hemo currently isn't worth the personal dps loss since the nerf in 2.3. Somewhere in the -15% range for shst builds and somewhere in the 10% range for trispec builds(which is pretty close to the hemo buff dam). However if you still wanted to try a build like that you'd want to do trispec swords build(with EA) to minimize your personal dps loss. Rotation would most likely be 5s/5ea/4-5r.

i'm not sure what you mean by this. yes, we do have warriors as main tanks most of the time. the sole exception so far has been a druid tank on morogrim. however, 5pt. imp EA is worth 3075 armor reduction, and 5x sunder armor is worth 2600 armor reduction.

The amount of DPS loss you sustain with SHS is far superior than what you adding, a few hundred less armor (compared to sunders). So no, dont use EA if there is a warrior there.

As for your hemo question, i dont know the theocrafty to say what the dps change would be, but go combat/sub not to SHS

QFT.

i've seen the maths on this left and right at EJ, 100 tps would be an extreme estimate. it has been shown to be closer to 50-80 tps loss.

speccing just into imp EA with an otherwise cookiecutter combat swords build is a definite RDPS gain for anyone wondering. i've run our top rogue, myself and some of our top hunters through their respective dps spreadsheets and the net RDPS gain from using imp EA far, far outweighed the dps lost from not keeping a 5pt. rupture up... and this is with that rogue specced into imp EA. i imagine that a lesser rogue wouldn't lose quite as much personal dps and thus lead to a somewhat larger RDPS gain.

Maybe you should make a sticky that describes the best builds for max dps in raiding. That way people could ignore it and make redundant threads about max dps for raiding.

I've tried running a raid-buff tri-spec (with both a warrior and druid tank) a few times with marginal results. After 2 Kara runs my 10-toon group's overall rDPS was hardly effected (both positively and negatively) compared to when I ran as regular combat and, oddly, on boss fights there was a consistent net loss of dps. Which, honestly, I can't explain. Could be that the debuffs would tend to shine more so on longer fights than available in Kara, but I'm not willing to respec just for Fel Reaver. I didn't do a detailed analysis (just Recount results) nor did I try Imp EA with deep Combat; but in my small experiment it just didn't seem worth it to me.

There have also been Hemo rogues in a few of my 25-toon raids. But I don't recall there being a huge difference in net rDPS over an entire run. By comparison, I do notice the difference when my Fri/Sat group has a Retadin. Again, no detailed analysis, just adding the experience of a number-obsessed raider who runs Recount.

I do plan on trying some new spec variations (with WWS records) when my 10-toon group attacks WotLK. But until then, or I see some very compelling evidence, Imp EA and Hemo just doesn't seem worth it from what I've seen. Kinda a bummer honestly, but /shrug.

Apart from KJ.

YES, please tell me, what is the sub rogue's role against KJ ... we saw SK use one on their kill, then we saw Method and Nihilum use one on THEIR kills.

Lots of questions were asked at the time about the reason for it, I just never saw an answer. I don't raid, will never raid, and aren't invloved in any end-game content ... I just find it interesting that out-of-the-blue, this sub rogue appeared on the end boss of the game for the world first kill of KJ, and has pretty much been a standard fixture in the general makeup of any raid that has dropped him since.

Yeah, sorry, I forgot that I said that the best build was combat swords in the FAQ.

I also forgot that I know next to everything about rogue DPS, and therefore am fully qualified to answer questions on the subject.

Rogue basic theorycraft like you're talking about in this thread isn't hard to figure out, which is why I'm calling you a moron.

Is hemo enough of a RDPS buff to justify all the points you'd have to lose in combat? Hah, no.

Can you find out this info by simply downloading a spreadsheet and playing with it for 20 minutes?

Yes, definitely.

Awesome, thanks. You see, this is where I seriously admire those top guilds going for world firsts (or at least going for world firsts). How long / quick did it take for the raid leader(s) to determine that the best way of handling that situation is to have a specific class, spec a specific way.

Maybe it's not really as impressive as it sounds (again, not being a raider, I have no idea), but for me, it sure as hell is impressive.

Anyway, OT ... soz.

Edited, Aug 26th 2008 8:59am by robertlofthouse

get out of sub.

theo is right, check a spreadsheet.
to the guy who posted before me, its simple to check the spreadsheet and find these things for yourself. if the OP doesnt understand how dps works maybe he doesnt deserve to get bashed, but its clearly stated that combat is the only way to go for raiding.


Edited, Aug 26th 2008 2:46pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator

Edited, Aug 26th 2008 2:48pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator

Edited, Aug 26th 2008 2:48pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator