Well my paladin dinged 61 and I'm having some real issues with him. He was retribution spec up until level 60 and I was a killing machine and loved it. Now however, my job is to tank and to hold aggro while others do the dpsing and healing....and the fact is I can't seem to do it agaisnt anyone who has any sort of decent dps.
Now, I know tanking and am pretty decent at it on both my warrior and my druid, however on my pally I have multiple problems:
1. Threat (I just can't seem to build enough of it)
2. Mana (seems to go pretty fast when using judgements/consecration/holy shield)
3. Gear (...is there even any pally tanking gear before 70 lol?)
Now let me know if I just suck, but my general routine is to start with judging retribution and keeping it up, using consecration on multiple mobs and keeping holy shield up, using judgement of crusader on bosses. This sound pretty close to that way it's done?
So bottom line is I'm frustrated and need either encouragement or a "You blow at pally, reroll plaz". Is it just a difficult time for pallies to be protection because everyone is getting uber outlands gear and the only spell damage gear you can find is for casters?
I appreciate all the opinions you guys take the time to post. Thanks.
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- Need a little encouragement (or the cold hard truth).
Need a little encouragement (or the cold hard truth).Follow
Early 60's suck as a pally. There are caster mobs that cut through your armor and tear you up.
Makes soloing at Prot or questing as prot no bueno. Tanking 5 mans you need to realize that spelldamage = threat, so spell damage weapons, plate with spell damage on it etc. Play with downranking your consecrates as well to save mana.
Basically you want to throw a shield, get a misdirect or whatever works in the most most mana efficient way. There is no one way to pull. Simple lay down a consecrate as they come to you (slightly before they get to you) and judge righteousness, use SoR cause Seal of Vengeance (if you are alliance) is an absolutely atrocious tanking seal. Judge when its up, lay a consecrate to keep multi mob aggro as needed, feel free to switch to the next mob when the last is at 10% to build some threat if need be.
You can judge JoW or Judgement of Crusader but honestly if its not a boss its not worth the time unless its a tricky mob.
Makes soloing at Prot or questing as prot no bueno. Tanking 5 mans you need to realize that spelldamage = threat, so spell damage weapons, plate with spell damage on it etc. Play with downranking your consecrates as well to save mana.
Basically you want to throw a shield, get a misdirect or whatever works in the most most mana efficient way. There is no one way to pull. Simple lay down a consecrate as they come to you (slightly before they get to you) and judge righteousness, use SoR cause Seal of Vengeance (if you are alliance) is an absolutely atrocious tanking seal. Judge when its up, lay a consecrate to keep multi mob aggro as needed, feel free to switch to the next mob when the last is at 10% to build some threat if need be.
You can judge JoW or Judgement of Crusader but honestly if its not a boss its not worth the time unless its a tricky mob.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Thanks Bodhisattva, I was hoping for more of the encouragement side rather that the "u ain't no good" side. :P
Would you say going retribution until 70 or a good tanking set would be the best idea? Or should I endure the torment of questing as prot and it'll make me a better pally in the end?
Would you say going retribution until 70 or a good tanking set would be the best idea? Or should I endure the torment of questing as prot and it'll make me a better pally in the end?
Tanking as a pally is a good balancing act.
1) Shoot for +200 spell damage. Use Sup Wiz Oil for 40ish pts of that to help on the side. As said, spell damage is threat for you.
2) Use rank one holy shield. You still get the 30% block (helping your blessing of santuary). Use your high rank conceration for your inital pull and a lower rank for keeping agro. Both these help reduce your mana drain. Also, unless I'm facing a boss, I usually use Seal of Wiz or Light depending. I don't really judge that much unless our dps group needs it. I just use it personally to keep my mana up, (life if i'm desperate as it's return really isn't that great at this lvl). On the bosses you've got it.
3) I don't see your pally listed in your toons so I'm just going to go general. Get a high +spell wep. White damage doesn't really do anything worth noting for you anyway. There are some ok pieces out there, you really just have to keep an eye out. Get that def up to 490 and move your avoid up (probally around 70% to 80% at that lvl). As soon as possiable get your Keepers of Time rep up as that is where you will pick up your wep (at 70) and some good pants.
If you haven't the faq here is the best. Check out the def and mig sticky too.
GL.
1) Shoot for +200 spell damage. Use Sup Wiz Oil for 40ish pts of that to help on the side. As said, spell damage is threat for you.
2) Use rank one holy shield. You still get the 30% block (helping your blessing of santuary). Use your high rank conceration for your inital pull and a lower rank for keeping agro. Both these help reduce your mana drain. Also, unless I'm facing a boss, I usually use Seal of Wiz or Light depending. I don't really judge that much unless our dps group needs it. I just use it personally to keep my mana up, (life if i'm desperate as it's return really isn't that great at this lvl). On the bosses you've got it.
3) I don't see your pally listed in your toons so I'm just going to go general. Get a high +spell wep. White damage doesn't really do anything worth noting for you anyway. There are some ok pieces out there, you really just have to keep an eye out. Get that def up to 490 and move your avoid up (probally around 70% to 80% at that lvl). As soon as possiable get your Keepers of Time rep up as that is where you will pick up your wep (at 70) and some good pants.
If you haven't the faq here is the best. Check out the def and mig sticky too.
GL.
Before raiding, Holy Shield isn't the most important thing in the world either if you can't keep up on mana. Sure, the threat:mana ratio for Consecration is pretty low, but it's more effective (even on a single mob) than the average Holy Shield cast.
Do you have Righteous Fury on at all times? Do you have 3/3 Imp. Righteous Fury? If the answer to either is "no" you should look into that. Honestly, a well played Ret could probably handle most normal Outland instances with a good group (maybe not some level 70 ones) if they grab 3/3 Imp. Righteous Fury.
Don't worry too much about gear until 70. Grab all the Stamina you can and you'll be set. There's more to consider when entering endgame though.
Do you have Righteous Fury on at all times? Do you have 3/3 Imp. Righteous Fury? If the answer to either is "no" you should look into that. Honestly, a well played Ret could probably handle most normal Outland instances with a good group (maybe not some level 70 ones) if they grab 3/3 Imp. Righteous Fury.
Don't worry too much about gear until 70. Grab all the Stamina you can and you'll be set. There's more to consider when entering endgame though.
Quote:
Basically you want to throw a shield, get a misdirect or whatever works in the most most mana efficient way. There is no one way to pull. Simple lay down a consecrate as they come to you (slightly before they get to you) and judge righteousness, use SoR cause Seal of Vengeance (if you are alliance) is an absolutely atrocious tanking seal.
I'd agree on trash but I tend to use it on bosses. Once you have the 5 stacks on it builds aggro very well but the problem is getting the 5 stacks on without dropping too much threat. I tend to go all out in the first 10 secs of the fight to build up a good threat lead before using SoV.
Something like: SoR - wings - AS - JoR (reseal SoR) - Conc - JoR - SoW/SoL/SoC + Judge - SoV
Once I get the 5 stacks on I tend to not have to Judge every CD and just do it just before the seal expires.
For the OP though, are you having any problems surviving? Whenever I run into mana probs in an instance I like to just pull more mobs so I take more damage and thus get healed and gain mana.
If you do pull 4 or 5 mobs, then it's only the first one you need to worry about threat wise since the others will have been standing in your conc
Morning (in England anyway)
Don't forget BoSanc, ret aura and so on, as well as spell damage which is what pallies need for threat, if you can afford it maybe a +40 spell damage enchant can be considered.
If it were me, I'd ret until 70 then start tanking things (which I did).
The guys are offereing good advice though no need to worry about 490 defence until 70 as you wont get there without Herculean efforts.
Also if you are with higher level grps then they will pump out more dps, making it harder for you to maintain threat. If they are similar levels then they may be inexperienced in how to use their characters.
Just a bit more food for thought.
Pallies make awesome tanks at 70 though :)
Don't forget BoSanc, ret aura and so on, as well as spell damage which is what pallies need for threat, if you can afford it maybe a +40 spell damage enchant can be considered.
If it were me, I'd ret until 70 then start tanking things (which I did).
The guys are offereing good advice though no need to worry about 490 defence until 70 as you wont get there without Herculean efforts.
Also if you are with higher level grps then they will pump out more dps, making it harder for you to maintain threat. If they are similar levels then they may be inexperienced in how to use their characters.
Just a bit more food for thought.
Pallies make awesome tanks at 70 though :)
Superior Wizard Oil is usually pretty cheap on the AH. You should always have this on your weapon when tanking. It will be much cheaqper than any enchant (if you are short on cash).
If you are having problems with aggro - did you put BoSalvation on EVERYONE else? Don't give them DPS increasing buffs if you are having aggro problems. Give them threat reducing buffs.
Other than that, I think everyone else covered the basics.
Edited, Aug 22nd 2008 9:12am by YJMark
If you are having problems with aggro - did you put BoSalvation on EVERYONE else? Don't give them DPS increasing buffs if you are having aggro problems. Give them threat reducing buffs.
Other than that, I think everyone else covered the basics.
Edited, Aug 22nd 2008 9:12am by YJMark
Really appreciate all the replies. Definitely going to utilize all the tips you guys posted and going to memorize the Tanking stickies, lol. My hopes are to contribute to the tanking community by being an awesome pally and not just another consecration spamming wanna-be tank.
Sorry I didn't post my paladin...kinda retarded since I wanted advice on him, but he is a little embarrassing at the moment lol. Remember I was retribution until 60 and also didnt come to outlands til 60.
Paladus
Thanks again.
Sorry I didn't post my paladin...kinda retarded since I wanted advice on him, but he is a little embarrassing at the moment lol. Remember I was retribution until 60 and also didnt come to outlands til 60.
Paladus
Thanks again.
Put 5 points into One-handed Weapon Specialization ASAP. 5% more damage is nice but that's also 5% more threat for you.
In addition to Superior Wizard Oil, you might also consider +spell damage buff food (Poached Bluefish, Blackened Basilisk, and Warp Burgers) and Adept's Elixir, if your threat generation really is your problem.
Your fairly low HP suggests that it's not. Your rings, boots, bracers... are from lvl ~40?? Get to the AH and buy whatever Outland greens you can afford. They don't have to be "of the Champion" as any stamina gain alone will give you a signficant gear boost. Your gloves too deserve an upgrade sooner or later. You'll find Ramps and questing in general to be a lot easier with level-appropriate gear.
In addition to Superior Wizard Oil, you might also consider +spell damage buff food (Poached Bluefish, Blackened Basilisk, and Warp Burgers) and Adept's Elixir, if your threat generation really is your problem.
Your fairly low HP suggests that it's not. Your rings, boots, bracers... are from lvl ~40?? Get to the AH and buy whatever Outland greens you can afford. They don't have to be "of the Champion" as any stamina gain alone will give you a signficant gear boost. Your gloves too deserve an upgrade sooner or later. You'll find Ramps and questing in general to be a lot easier with level-appropriate gear.
Quote:
use SoR cause Seal of Vengeance (if you are alliance) is an absolutely atrocious tanking seal.
I have a question about this statement. Is it true? I'm level 68 an ahve tanked all the regular instances other that the level 70 required ones. I only use SoR when I judge it on the pull, after that I use seal of vengeance through the duration of the fight. I am pretty sure seal of vengeance is doing more damage than SoR does. Am I wrong and should compare them closer? Also, if you think SoV is worthless tanking then when do you use it? Thanks - sorry @OP to divert your thread.
Assuming 2/2 Imp. Judgements, a modest into-raid level of 200 Spell Damage, and TOTALLY IDEAL circumstances for both seals:
Now.. there are a few things that aren't accounted for in that. First, SoV does not start putting up that much threat the moment you cast it. It takes time for it to build up to that maximum potential and given the short duration of most trash fights it usually won't even make it that high. Second, for JoV to put out that much, SoV needs to fully stack so you run into the same problem that you had previously. Third, you cant front-load threat as well with SoV/JoV as you can with SoR/JoR. You can immediately judge JoR for a healthy bit of threat to begin the fight, and then start building threat with SoR at a steady pace. With SoV, you aren't even guaranteed to start building ANY threat immediately if you cant proc a stack right from the start. It gets very difficult to hold aggro when all you have helping you is Consecration on an unlucky SoV proc.
That math also relies on SoV staying fully stacked the whole time. As soon as you judge JoV you're back to square one in building again. Incidentally, the threat you get from using both SoR and JoR together is MORE than the threat you get for just stacking a full stack of SoV and leaving it. You need to weave in Judgements (of either kind depending on your style) in order to take a lead. Many people will skip JoV and use JoR instead, and then immediatly switch back to SoV to keep the stack up. This endangers your stack AND costs more mana than necessary.
All things considered, if you don't mind gambling a little bit... you could use SoV in longer fights (fights where it has time to catch up and overtake the early threat lead that SoR has) to generate a larger OVERALL amount of threat. You'll likely end up using more mana using JoR, because you aren't really putting yourself at a threat lead by using JoV. Also, you'd be taking your primary "spike threat" ability (besides Righteous Defense) and turning it into a "trickle threat" ability like Consecration/Ret Aura/Holy Shield so your DPS would have to know to smooth out their threat as much as possible. Not too much of a challenge for say.. a Mage. But a Lock or Shadow Priest would take some getting used to it.
SoR on the other hand, is a more reliable seal. You get a reliable stream of larger threat spikes, and in many (read: most) cases it will generate more threat for your before the fight is over. The exception being possibly some bosses in which case the slower trickle of threat that SoV generates may put DPSers very close on your tail until you can establish aggro firmly. They all generate threats in spikes, it's easier to hold aggro if you too generate threat in spikes.
SoR - 27.8 + (0.09*200) = 45.8 DPS = 87.02 TPS
JoR - 27.3 + (0.09*200) = 45.3 DPS = 86.07 TPS
===========
173.09 TPS
SoV - 44 + (0.05*200) = 54 DPS = 102.6 TPS
JoV - 66 + (0.054*200) = 76.8 DPS = 145.92 TPS
============
248.52 TPS Now.. there are a few things that aren't accounted for in that. First, SoV does not start putting up that much threat the moment you cast it. It takes time for it to build up to that maximum potential and given the short duration of most trash fights it usually won't even make it that high. Second, for JoV to put out that much, SoV needs to fully stack so you run into the same problem that you had previously. Third, you cant front-load threat as well with SoV/JoV as you can with SoR/JoR. You can immediately judge JoR for a healthy bit of threat to begin the fight, and then start building threat with SoR at a steady pace. With SoV, you aren't even guaranteed to start building ANY threat immediately if you cant proc a stack right from the start. It gets very difficult to hold aggro when all you have helping you is Consecration on an unlucky SoV proc.
That math also relies on SoV staying fully stacked the whole time. As soon as you judge JoV you're back to square one in building again. Incidentally, the threat you get from using both SoR and JoR together is MORE than the threat you get for just stacking a full stack of SoV and leaving it. You need to weave in Judgements (of either kind depending on your style) in order to take a lead. Many people will skip JoV and use JoR instead, and then immediatly switch back to SoV to keep the stack up. This endangers your stack AND costs more mana than necessary.
All things considered, if you don't mind gambling a little bit... you could use SoV in longer fights (fights where it has time to catch up and overtake the early threat lead that SoR has) to generate a larger OVERALL amount of threat. You'll likely end up using more mana using JoR, because you aren't really putting yourself at a threat lead by using JoV. Also, you'd be taking your primary "spike threat" ability (besides Righteous Defense) and turning it into a "trickle threat" ability like Consecration/Ret Aura/Holy Shield so your DPS would have to know to smooth out their threat as much as possible. Not too much of a challenge for say.. a Mage. But a Lock or Shadow Priest would take some getting used to it.
SoR on the other hand, is a more reliable seal. You get a reliable stream of larger threat spikes, and in many (read: most) cases it will generate more threat for your before the fight is over. The exception being possibly some bosses in which case the slower trickle of threat that SoV generates may put DPSers very close on your tail until you can establish aggro firmly. They all generate threats in spikes, it's easier to hold aggro if you too generate threat in spikes.
Ok...
In the EARLY 60's, your defence should probably be around 400 (no WAY to get it to 490 at level 62 or whatever)...
Get a cheap green fast mace with spelldamage on it. DO NOT bother to enchant it with +40 spelldamage, you won't need it for the easier outlands dungeons. Use superior wizard oil for +40 spelldamage and an Adepts Elixer for another +40 spelldamage whenever you are going to tank an instance and you will have plenty of +spelldamage for threat.
Do not tank easy instances with DPS that is over-level and/or overgeared for the instance... you will never keep threat no matter what you do. Do the instances with appropriately levelled groups whenever possible so threat is not as much of an issue.
READ LOSIE'S STICKY! (If you haven't already... if you have, refer back to it often as you can never really read it enough times if you plan on staying prot.)
Get as much stam as possible. If your threat is still a bit too low after all of these steps, use BoSanc on yourself. If mana is an issue, BoW yourself. If health is an issue BoL yourself (and/or get a better healer). If threat, health, and mana are good, BoK yourself (more stats = more mana and more health plus faster regen). That should get you to the point where you can get up to level 68 or so and start doing some of the harder stuff like Durnholde, etc. At THAT point really work on getting defense to 490 (defense of 490 is more important than avoidance 102.4% until you are ready for Kara).
As far as questing as a prot, if you have friends that can fill the proper rolls, quest in a group of 3 for all of your quests (quite a few of the outlands quests require 2-5 people anyway, and they usually MEAN IT when they suggest 5).
Bring yourself (tank), Holy Priest (heals), and a ranged DPS such as a hunter/lock/mage. If you can do as many of the quests as possible with a group like this, you will FLY through quests with almost no downtime whatsoever. If you HAVE to solo, practice your tanking by taking on at least 3 mobs at a time, and use seal/judgement of wisdom to keep your mana up and then use flash of light/holy light to heal yourself when needed. If you seriously overdo a pull when soloing, wait for the last second and Lay on Hands. Questing solo as prot is a bit slow, but it is lots of fun, and good tanking practice.
ADDED extra bit: I haven't seen a link to your toon, so I don't know what gear you have, but I reccomend doing ramps about 6-8 times as a tank in PROPERLY LEVELLED GROUPS so you get good practice and feel comfortable... start with fiends/guildies if possible, and then do some PUGs with complete strangers so you KNOW you are getting the hang of it. Hopefully after 6 runs or so, not only will you be feeling much more comfortable and confident, but you should also have socketed chest armor, a REALLY NICE socketed belt, an AMAZING ring, and an AMAZING cloak, all from boss/chest drops in Ramps.
I switched from Ret to Prot at 61 and did this, and it was great for gear and a HUGE confidence builder as a new tank.
Hope that helped!
Edited, Aug 22nd 2008 1:46pm by jeromesimina
In the EARLY 60's, your defence should probably be around 400 (no WAY to get it to 490 at level 62 or whatever)...
Get a cheap green fast mace with spelldamage on it. DO NOT bother to enchant it with +40 spelldamage, you won't need it for the easier outlands dungeons. Use superior wizard oil for +40 spelldamage and an Adepts Elixer for another +40 spelldamage whenever you are going to tank an instance and you will have plenty of +spelldamage for threat.
Do not tank easy instances with DPS that is over-level and/or overgeared for the instance... you will never keep threat no matter what you do. Do the instances with appropriately levelled groups whenever possible so threat is not as much of an issue.
READ LOSIE'S STICKY! (If you haven't already... if you have, refer back to it often as you can never really read it enough times if you plan on staying prot.)
Get as much stam as possible. If your threat is still a bit too low after all of these steps, use BoSanc on yourself. If mana is an issue, BoW yourself. If health is an issue BoL yourself (and/or get a better healer). If threat, health, and mana are good, BoK yourself (more stats = more mana and more health plus faster regen). That should get you to the point where you can get up to level 68 or so and start doing some of the harder stuff like Durnholde, etc. At THAT point really work on getting defense to 490 (defense of 490 is more important than avoidance 102.4% until you are ready for Kara).
As far as questing as a prot, if you have friends that can fill the proper rolls, quest in a group of 3 for all of your quests (quite a few of the outlands quests require 2-5 people anyway, and they usually MEAN IT when they suggest 5).
Bring yourself (tank), Holy Priest (heals), and a ranged DPS such as a hunter/lock/mage. If you can do as many of the quests as possible with a group like this, you will FLY through quests with almost no downtime whatsoever. If you HAVE to solo, practice your tanking by taking on at least 3 mobs at a time, and use seal/judgement of wisdom to keep your mana up and then use flash of light/holy light to heal yourself when needed. If you seriously overdo a pull when soloing, wait for the last second and Lay on Hands. Questing solo as prot is a bit slow, but it is lots of fun, and good tanking practice.
ADDED extra bit: I haven't seen a link to your toon, so I don't know what gear you have, but I reccomend doing ramps about 6-8 times as a tank in PROPERLY LEVELLED GROUPS so you get good practice and feel comfortable... start with fiends/guildies if possible, and then do some PUGs with complete strangers so you KNOW you are getting the hang of it. Hopefully after 6 runs or so, not only will you be feeling much more comfortable and confident, but you should also have socketed chest armor, a REALLY NICE socketed belt, an AMAZING ring, and an AMAZING cloak, all from boss/chest drops in Ramps.
I switched from Ret to Prot at 61 and did this, and it was great for gear and a HUGE confidence builder as a new tank.
Hope that helped!
Edited, Aug 22nd 2008 1:46pm by jeromesimina
Thanks for the numbers example Losie, but just one thing:
This isn't true, when vengeance is judged the 5 stack remains until the buff timer runs out without a reapplication. Same as a judged wis or light. I agree with the initial issue of having to stack the vengeance judgments for the threat to kick in. To compensate I use JoR in the pull sequence and by the time judgment is up again I usually have 3-4 vengeance DoTs on them which is kicking out more holy damage than the righteousness seal/judgment does. Perhaps I am still at a point where the DPS I am with is not killing mobs fast enough for straight righteousness to surpass SoV/JoV?
Quote:
That math also relies on SoV staying fully stacked the whole time. As soon as you judge JoV you're back to square one in building again.
This isn't true, when vengeance is judged the 5 stack remains until the buff timer runs out without a reapplication. Same as a judged wis or light. I agree with the initial issue of having to stack the vengeance judgments for the threat to kick in. To compensate I use JoR in the pull sequence and by the time judgment is up again I usually have 3-4 vengeance DoTs on them which is kicking out more holy damage than the righteousness seal/judgment does. Perhaps I am still at a point where the DPS I am with is not killing mobs fast enough for straight righteousness to surpass SoV/JoV?
PLD excel in that they can drop massive threat right away. If with Avenger's Shiled, consecration, righteous fury, etc you can't keep hate until SoV stacks, your DPS shouldn't open with ShS amubsh or instant pyro. This is why rogues have garrote. Jsut remember to keep up Holy Shield (some rank of it) at all times and hammer of justice anyone who gets away. There's a great macro for the taunt (can't remember the name right now) that will also help.
Your biggest threat tool is +spell dmg, so try to get some of that ASAP.
Also, agree with the one handed specialization. It may not be much, but with reckoning, you are almost always double hitting when tanking multi-mobs.
It gets easier. Just know that you can only do so much to keep hate, but DPS is responsible for managing their DPS.
Your biggest threat tool is +spell dmg, so try to get some of that ASAP.
Also, agree with the one handed specialization. It may not be much, but with reckoning, you are almost always double hitting when tanking multi-mobs.
It gets easier. Just know that you can only do so much to keep hate, but DPS is responsible for managing their DPS.
NephthysWanderer wrote:
PLD excel in that they can drop massive threat right away. If with Avenger's Shiled, consecration, righteous fury, etc you can't keep hate until SoV stacks, your DPS shouldn't open with ShS amubsh or instant pyro. This is why rogues have garrote. Jsut remember to keep up Holy Shield (some rank of it) at all times and hammer of justice anyone who gets away. There's a great macro for the taunt (can't remember the name right now) that will also help.
Your biggest threat tool is +spell dmg, so try to get some of that ASAP.
Also, agree with the one handed specialization. It may not be much, but with reckoning, you are almost always double hitting when tanking multi-mobs.
It gets easier. Just know that you can only do so much to keep hate, but DPS is responsible for managing their DPS.
Your biggest threat tool is +spell dmg, so try to get some of that ASAP.
Also, agree with the one handed specialization. It may not be much, but with reckoning, you are almost always double hitting when tanking multi-mobs.
It gets easier. Just know that you can only do so much to keep hate, but DPS is responsible for managing their DPS.
That is a GREAT point. If you are in a guild and do most of your dungeons together, get OMEN! That way, if someone is about to out-do you on threat, they will get a flashing red screen and a big HORRIBLY NOISY warning buzzer letting them know to back off unless they want to get squished. The individual fights might take slightly longer, but the overall experience will end up being much more efficient since no one will be dying. MUCH less work for you and the healer, and in the end, the whole party will come away much happier.
If you are pugging an instance, before you even go into the first fight, make sure everyone has the proper blessings/food buffs/other buffs, etc, (PallyPower mod FTW) and then just come right out and say in party chat, "OK, now for each pull, I am gonna throw my shield and pull to HERE" (then go stand right where you want the group to wait for the pull). That way if there are casters in the mobs, you can show them which corner you are going to use for an LoS pull (line of sight) so that the casters have to come to you. If you are using CC (sheep, sap, etc.) use moon to mark the CC target and make sure the CC knows that moon means CC. Avenger's Shield automatically skips CC targets, so the CC will still hold. Don't consecrate too close to a CC target or it WILL break CC. This means you should always pull BACK some and not bum-rush the targets (unless you are not using any CC). THEN, continue to tell them about the pull as follows:
"After I throw my shield, I will run to this spot where you will all be waiting, and when the mobs get close I will consecrate (max rank) and THEN you can start in on the DPS." (allows you to build a HUGE threat lead!)
Make sure you mark the targets and everyone knows the kill order. People might hate a 5-minute lecture at the start of a dungeon at first, but once you clear Ramps in 35 minutes or so with no deaths whatsoever and most party members not even getting hit, they will LOVE YOU!
Gear... wow. I would do what was said before, head to the ah and get some outland greens. The gear you have (left over from your ret days) with hit rating, attack power, and crit is pretty much useless as a pally tank.
Someone said "run BF a few times to get the feel of tanking" I totally agree. And in there is a mace with something like +121 to spell damage. You want that too.
Another thing that rings true is DPS'rs are responsiable for their threat. If they know they are over geared for the group they should back off their threat. It is all party members responsiability to do their job well to make a good, fast, clean run. Omen threat meter is great. I use it and demand it of my guild. It's also on of the most popular ones out there so you'll find that in a lot of your pugs you will get 2 or 3 toons with it also.
Unless you are soloing a lot you may want to think about moving your 5 points from Reckoning to One Hand Special, as it increases ALL damage, including your spell damage.
These guys have pretty much hit all the other pts worth hitting.
GL.
Someone said "run BF a few times to get the feel of tanking" I totally agree. And in there is a mace with something like +121 to spell damage. You want that too.
Another thing that rings true is DPS'rs are responsiable for their threat. If they know they are over geared for the group they should back off their threat. It is all party members responsiability to do their job well to make a good, fast, clean run. Omen threat meter is great. I use it and demand it of my guild. It's also on of the most popular ones out there so you'll find that in a lot of your pugs you will get 2 or 3 toons with it also.
Unless you are soloing a lot you may want to think about moving your 5 points from Reckoning to One Hand Special, as it increases ALL damage, including your spell damage.
These guys have pretty much hit all the other pts worth hitting.
GL.
bodhisattva wrote:
Simple lay down a consecrate as they come to you (slightly before they get to you) and judge righteousness, use SoR cause Seal of Vengeance (if you are alliance) is an absolutely atrocious tanking seal.
Pfffffft.
The only thing SoV is bad at is burst threat. You open with shield, JoR, and an exorcism if it's possible, then SoV. You can even do it on trash, it's not hard so long as you have a handful of spell +hit.
Trash often dies too fast though. You really only want to use SoV on mobs that will last long enough to get a full stack and then some, and of course bosses. When SoV wont' stack full, SoR wins out. That's the simple way to explain it at least.
The point is that it's an excellent tanking seal so long as the fight last long enough for it to be worthwhile.
Scholar
37 posts
I too am a Pally tank, and specced Prot at 70. By far the worst part is solo questing/dailies as a prot. It will be a challenge to get to 90 as a prot pally, so just keep at it. Also if your friends or guild need you to be prot, ask them to help you level in return for tanking.
My spell damage is horrible, but i seem to hold aggro pretty well. Its a matter of the group know how to do their job just as much as you know how to do yours.
On the bosses and while soloing I use SoR/JoR/SoV, the when i get a full stack JoV/SoV. If the mob/boss is low on health I will JoV/SoR and get damage from both seals.
I also have a set of key binding for tanking and one for soloing, Hammer of Wrath is not on the tanking set. If the mob is less than 20% and goes running off, the DPS usually have him down befor the spell finishes casting. And I'm on to the next in the kill order.
Feel free to challenge this statement, but you will have a hard time finding gear that gets both Defense and spell damage.
Good luck
Hadry
My spell damage is horrible, but i seem to hold aggro pretty well. Its a matter of the group know how to do their job just as much as you know how to do yours.
On the bosses and while soloing I use SoR/JoR/SoV, the when i get a full stack JoV/SoV. If the mob/boss is low on health I will JoV/SoR and get damage from both seals.
I also have a set of key binding for tanking and one for soloing, Hammer of Wrath is not on the tanking set. If the mob is less than 20% and goes running off, the DPS usually have him down befor the spell finishes casting. And I'm on to the next in the kill order.
Feel free to challenge this statement, but you will have a hard time finding gear that gets both Defense and spell damage.
Good luck
Hadry
dont forget to use your goddam wings! if you roll with SoR, use it right away for massive front-loading. if SoV is the play, wait til 5 stacks and enjoy the spike.
AW is every 3 mins. once every other trash pull and twice on boss fights.
AW is every 3 mins. once every other trash pull and twice on boss fights.
Under ideal conditions SoV would reign supreme over SoR, under ideal conditions my connection to the web should be 10mbps.
It is reliability where things come into play. Having to stack SoV, chance of losing the stack, having to rotate mobs, grabbing a mob right off the hop if it comes out of a CC unexpectedly and Consecrate is on cooldown etc. All factors that show that the theory doesn't survive the application.
It is reliability where things come into play. Having to stack SoV, chance of losing the stack, having to rotate mobs, grabbing a mob right off the hop if it comes out of a CC unexpectedly and Consecrate is on cooldown etc. All factors that show that the theory doesn't survive the application.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Bodhisattva wrote:
Under ideal conditions SoV would reign supreme over SoR, under ideal conditions my connection to the web should be 10mbps.
It is reliability where things come into play. Having to stack SoV, chance of losing the stack, having to rotate mobs, grabbing a mob right off the hop if it comes out of a CC unexpectedly and Consecrate is on cooldown etc. All factors that show that the theory doesn't survive the application.
It is reliability where things come into play. Having to stack SoV, chance of losing the stack, having to rotate mobs, grabbing a mob right off the hop if it comes out of a CC unexpectedly and Consecrate is on cooldown etc. All factors that show that the theory doesn't survive the application.
Agreed. On trash mobs where you have to change targets a lot SoV is hugely unreliable but on Bosses or larger single mobs once you get your initial burst threat in, SoV is my seal of choice. Focussing on one target you should have no probs stacking and maintaining SoV.
Planetman wrote:
Feel free to challenge this statement, but you will have a hard time finding gear that gets both Defense and spell damage.
Hadry
Well, from what i have seen, there is actually a decent amount of Pally tank gear that has both spelldamage and defense on it, it just happens to be PvP gear, Epics, Rep Gear, or Badge gear, so you just have to decide what you want to grind to get your purples. If you are talking basic tanking gear when you just hit 70, then yes, not much available unless there is a purple BoE item on the AH and you have 1K to 2K gold to spend per item.
Edited, Aug 25th 2008 2:34pm by jeromesimina
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