I have just come off of two days of constant losses in EotS and AB. About 20 or so battles and not one win. Not one. The honor stinks, and marks are one at a time, so the grind is slow going. That makes me pretty mad.
But what makes me even angrier, is just how much it sucks being a mage. We have so many high damage abilities, but in the BG's using them is almost impossible. I end up spamming instants most of the time, and most of them don't hit very hard. Every once in a while I can bring my Water Elemental out for a few seconds and do a little damage-if I don't die first-but overall, I feel really underpowered and weak. I can't heal, can't wear decent armor, don't have a reliable pet,have a crappy shield, no DoT's, and my health is pretty damn low.
I've read all the posts about how great frost mages are for PvP, and I really don't see it. Most of my frost abilities-like frostbolt!-take too long. And forget about fire. A 3 second cast is unworkable. Arcane is a mana hog.
Warlocks sick their pet and DoT/fear me, Priests psychic scream and heal when I hit them, Warriors charge or intercept and squish me(no matter how many frost novas, frost bolts, CoC, or whatever); palidans bubble ( I hates it!) heal and then squish me or run away; rogues-ugh-I'm probably dead right away, but if I can last, I can almost get their health down to half; druids heal until I'm out of mana or someone comes to their rescue; shamans heal; and well, then the other mages-I can take them because they are weak.
I'm at my best with a lot of support around me, until, that is, they target me and take me out first, which they inevitably do. In AV, I can usually get a good group around and do real damage and survive. AB, WSG, and EotS, because of the smaller groups doesn't allow that.
I know I'm just not that good yet at playing a mage. My gear isn't great, but I'm getting there. My spec is pure frost-could be diversified. Gems, well, I can't get the hang of them yet.
I'm sick of using arcane blast, fire blast, ice lance, and CoC. I love my Water Elemental, but he should stick around longer. Quicker casting times would be nice, too.
Being a mage I'm staring to feel obsolete. Everyone else is faster, stronger, and better prepared to survive. Mages are just a cannon. A weak, slow, cannon. Oh, and we get to cater and transport people around. Lucky us.
Give me a full time pet. Give me a DoT. Give me healing. Something. Anything.
Damn, what a frustrating couple of days. Now, I'm off to make shadowcloth. It's been four days and I can make two more pieces. yay.
Now, bear in mind, I'm just venting. But really, what am I doing wrong? I don't want to give up my mage-I really do like her. I think the class is great. But all the other classes have grown so much, mages just seem like yesterday's news.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drenden&n=Morgause
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drenden&n=Morgause
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A Disenchanted MageFollow
Scholar
33 posts
My friend, I see where your troubles are...
Lets start here...
Lets dissect this. You are upset with two things. A) Your respective PvP factions performance, and B) Your class
Because of your problem in A, you feel especially frustrated with B, because in a BG, until you win or lose, you only see what is happening with B, not the whole picture with A.
The first of the two problems, can be solved by attempting to form premade groups. This way you can control what happens in part (A), which may lead to you attaining better gear for your mage, and feeling better about part (B).
Simply go in LFG or Trade chat, and post a message (not spam). "LFM <Insert BG> PREMADE, NEED <INSERT MINIMUM REQUIREMENT>, AND BE CAPABLE OF FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS". Obviously you are upset with your factions PvP performance, so you can rest assured, that in your entire server, there are at least 9, 14, or 39 other players that feel the same and want to find a solution. This way you can form a MUCH more cooperative, and succesful raid group, which will lead to more wins for you.
At least you are aware of your own shortcomings. I dont mean this in an offensive way, but half of tackling a problem begins with identifying the problem. Most people can agree that Mages do in fact have a slightly steeper learning curve than other classes when it comes to PvP. Every move you make could mean life or death. Like chess, you need to be two steps ahead of your opponent all the time. What do I mean by this?
Mage vs Warrior
-If he is frost novad in place, you need to anticipate numeruos things, and be ready to counter. Is he going to spell reflect? Trinket and intercept? And how will you react to each? Are you strategically "spamming" ice lance? or are you just mad clicking looking at the big numbers? Is your blink ready if he intercepts?
Nowadays, you need to constantly be moving, and just like your toon's legs never stop, neither should your head. Always, always, always try to be thinking two steps ahead of your opponent.
Casting big charged nukes like fireball, or frostbolts are a luxury in a BG. And trust me, if you have adequate gear, if you can sit back and nuke, you WILL be the biggest, baddest player in that battleground. For example, I play a raid specced fire mage. Thats right, 7.5K HP, 0 resil. I am a walking target. And so I must pick my fights. Do I try to fight the two warriors that I would have been able to solo in my PvP gear with frost spec? Of course not. Do I let that warrior go ahead of me and start fighting the two of them, THEN sit back and spam fireball? Hell yes, and believe me, before those opponents even know what hit them, you will be sitting on your butt, raising a drink to their corpses because you BBQ'd them so fast. Its all about realizing your spec's strengths, and (back to the chess example) thinking ahead of your opponents.
Give me a full time pet. Give me a DoT. Give me healing. Something. Anything.
Talents for WotLK are out, doesnt look like we're getting anything, so you need to adjust. Read some forums, take a look at the FAQ. Find a style that suits you, and perfect it. My mage gets two shotted in BGs. On the other hand, when I play his strengths (Smart, and strategically), he owns the place.
Arenas are a different story, and you gotta pick your support accordingly, but end of the day its all about how well you make your mage work. While we HAVE seen better days, mages are still a force to be reckoned with, and feared. Dont give up. Get some gear, read some strats, and go BBQ, you'll love it and it never gets old.
Hope that helped
Lets start here...
Quote:
I have just come off of two days of constant losses in EotS and AB. About 20 or so battles and not one win. Not one. The honor stinks, and marks are one at a time, so the grind is slow going. That makes me pretty mad.
Quote:
But what makes me even angrier, is just how much it sucks being a mage.
Lets dissect this. You are upset with two things. A) Your respective PvP factions performance, and B) Your class
Because of your problem in A, you feel especially frustrated with B, because in a BG, until you win or lose, you only see what is happening with B, not the whole picture with A.
The first of the two problems, can be solved by attempting to form premade groups. This way you can control what happens in part (A), which may lead to you attaining better gear for your mage, and feeling better about part (B).
Simply go in LFG or Trade chat, and post a message (not spam). "LFM <Insert BG> PREMADE, NEED <INSERT MINIMUM REQUIREMENT>, AND BE CAPABLE OF FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS". Obviously you are upset with your factions PvP performance, so you can rest assured, that in your entire server, there are at least 9, 14, or 39 other players that feel the same and want to find a solution. This way you can form a MUCH more cooperative, and succesful raid group, which will lead to more wins for you.
Quote:
know I'm just not that good yet at playing a mage. My gear isn't great, but I'm getting there. My spec is pure frost-could be diversified. Gems, well, I can't get the hang of them yet.
At least you are aware of your own shortcomings. I dont mean this in an offensive way, but half of tackling a problem begins with identifying the problem. Most people can agree that Mages do in fact have a slightly steeper learning curve than other classes when it comes to PvP. Every move you make could mean life or death. Like chess, you need to be two steps ahead of your opponent all the time. What do I mean by this?
Mage vs Warrior
-If he is frost novad in place, you need to anticipate numeruos things, and be ready to counter. Is he going to spell reflect? Trinket and intercept? And how will you react to each? Are you strategically "spamming" ice lance? or are you just mad clicking looking at the big numbers? Is your blink ready if he intercepts?
Nowadays, you need to constantly be moving, and just like your toon's legs never stop, neither should your head. Always, always, always try to be thinking two steps ahead of your opponent.
Casting big charged nukes like fireball, or frostbolts are a luxury in a BG. And trust me, if you have adequate gear, if you can sit back and nuke, you WILL be the biggest, baddest player in that battleground. For example, I play a raid specced fire mage. Thats right, 7.5K HP, 0 resil. I am a walking target. And so I must pick my fights. Do I try to fight the two warriors that I would have been able to solo in my PvP gear with frost spec? Of course not. Do I let that warrior go ahead of me and start fighting the two of them, THEN sit back and spam fireball? Hell yes, and believe me, before those opponents even know what hit them, you will be sitting on your butt, raising a drink to their corpses because you BBQ'd them so fast. Its all about realizing your spec's strengths, and (back to the chess example) thinking ahead of your opponents.
Quote:
Give me a full time pet. Give me a DoT. Give me healing. Something. Anything.
Talents for WotLK are out, doesnt look like we're getting anything, so you need to adjust. Read some forums, take a look at the FAQ. Find a style that suits you, and perfect it. My mage gets two shotted in BGs. On the other hand, when I play his strengths (Smart, and strategically), he owns the place.
Arenas are a different story, and you gotta pick your support accordingly, but end of the day its all about how well you make your mage work. While we HAVE seen better days, mages are still a force to be reckoned with, and feared. Dont give up. Get some gear, read some strats, and go BBQ, you'll love it and it never gets old.
Hope that helped
Hmmm...my BG experience is completely different from the OP. Yes, I die early and often--but I also routinely place high in the killshot, HK, and damage categories. Part of that may be a difference in spec...I'm 41/20/0, and nothing says loving like PoM Pyro. Preferably from behind, at max range. Gives me time to add Fireblast, and finish with Arcane Missles.
Yes, my BG casting is almost all instants, except for AM. Only time I really bother with fireball is on Galv or Drek. Slow is, or at least seems to me to be, seriously underrated at a BG spell. Rogues hate it. Warriors, too. Frost Nova and Ice Lance work well in tandem. I've seen Ice Lance crit over 2k on a frozen target.
Arenas...eh...I'm just not very good in arena. Part of that may be my spec, instead of the more common frost spec, and part of it is that I'm old, have arthritis, and my fingers just aren't as nimble as some of the younger players. Kinda doubt I'll ever have any of the arena gear that requires arena rating to get, but that's more of a personal skill/ability issue than a class issue.
As for getting a pet, DoT, or healing...no thanks. To get something like that, they'd likely take away something we already have. If I wanted a pet, I'd play my lock alt. Dots, ditto. Just don't seem to fit the mage style. I'd rather have more, faster, and bigger BOOM spells. Healing? No thanks. Healing is why Karana created priests, shammies, pallies, and druids. Karana is wise. He made all those classes to serve the mage in support roles. Karana is also generous. He gives the mage the glorious boomosity that makes us what we are.
Why yes, I do realize that Karana is human deity, also worshiped by half-elves, popular in the lands of Norrath, but virtully unknown in Azeroth. I'm weird like that.
Edited, Aug 16th 2008 4:36pm by Kahbueme
Edited, Aug 16th 2008 4:39pm by Kahbueme
Yes, my BG casting is almost all instants, except for AM. Only time I really bother with fireball is on Galv or Drek. Slow is, or at least seems to me to be, seriously underrated at a BG spell. Rogues hate it. Warriors, too. Frost Nova and Ice Lance work well in tandem. I've seen Ice Lance crit over 2k on a frozen target.
Arenas...eh...I'm just not very good in arena. Part of that may be my spec, instead of the more common frost spec, and part of it is that I'm old, have arthritis, and my fingers just aren't as nimble as some of the younger players. Kinda doubt I'll ever have any of the arena gear that requires arena rating to get, but that's more of a personal skill/ability issue than a class issue.
As for getting a pet, DoT, or healing...no thanks. To get something like that, they'd likely take away something we already have. If I wanted a pet, I'd play my lock alt. Dots, ditto. Just don't seem to fit the mage style. I'd rather have more, faster, and bigger BOOM spells. Healing? No thanks. Healing is why Karana created priests, shammies, pallies, and druids. Karana is wise. He made all those classes to serve the mage in support roles. Karana is also generous. He gives the mage the glorious boomosity that makes us what we are.
Why yes, I do realize that Karana is human deity, also worshiped by half-elves, popular in the lands of Norrath, but virtully unknown in Azeroth. I'm weird like that.
Edited, Aug 16th 2008 4:36pm by Kahbueme
Edited, Aug 16th 2008 4:39pm by Kahbueme
I can agree you with in PVP alot of mage spells are hard to use. I myself find I do most of my damage with instant cast spells (I am a frost mage).
I do think some classes are over powered for PVP. Warlocks get too many quick to cast dots that in themselves can generally kill you. That doesn't count the pet that is beating on you stopping you from casting. I won't even go into hunters. Also seems like no matter what class you are fighting if they are hardcore PVPers they have some way to remove your sheep/freeze spells which are generally all we have to survive on.
However when you can manage to stand back and start casting you can really start to do some damage. All in all if your wanting a pure PVP toon I personally wouldn't recommend a mage. Also it seems like the mage is the first thing everybody goes for when they attack. Seriously there can be 5 of us standing around they always attack me. Thats why I always keep my frost shield up.
I do think some classes are over powered for PVP. Warlocks get too many quick to cast dots that in themselves can generally kill you. That doesn't count the pet that is beating on you stopping you from casting. I won't even go into hunters. Also seems like no matter what class you are fighting if they are hardcore PVPers they have some way to remove your sheep/freeze spells which are generally all we have to survive on.
However when you can manage to stand back and start casting you can really start to do some damage. All in all if your wanting a pure PVP toon I personally wouldn't recommend a mage. Also it seems like the mage is the first thing everybody goes for when they attack. Seriously there can be 5 of us standing around they always attack me. Thats why I always keep my frost shield up.
Hi
I have some understanding, and a bit of sympathy, for your plight. Mages are, by nature, a very non-durable class, thus, surviving the onslaught of all these melee, DoTing, ranged bombing classes is a daunting task.
It seems you are aware of the failings of the Mage class; perhaps all you need to do is re-familiarize yourself with the strengths that Mages possess.
Spell-steal: in my opinion, invaluable in PvP, not only can you steal some very beneficial spells, you also make the player whom you stole from re-evaluate.
Silence: again, invaluable, especially in a clutch situation. That Priest giving you nightmares as he heals your targets? Shut him/her up for a few valuable seconds.
Ice-Block: tricky to use, but definitely a valuable part of your ******** Rogues, Locks getting you down? Let them pile on their poisons, Curses, and DoTs, then, laugh as you wipe them all away.
In my opinion, these are just a few examples of the things that Mages can do that might save your *****
There is more to dealing damage, or topping the HK charts with Mages, we can be very powerful in a supportive role.
Good luck, hope this helps.
It seems you are aware of the failings of the Mage class; perhaps all you need to do is re-familiarize yourself with the strengths that Mages possess.
Spell-steal: in my opinion, invaluable in PvP, not only can you steal some very beneficial spells, you also make the player whom you stole from re-evaluate.
Silence: again, invaluable, especially in a clutch situation. That Priest giving you nightmares as he heals your targets? Shut him/her up for a few valuable seconds.
Ice-Block: tricky to use, but definitely a valuable part of your ******** Rogues, Locks getting you down? Let them pile on their poisons, Curses, and DoTs, then, laugh as you wipe them all away.
In my opinion, these are just a few examples of the things that Mages can do that might save your *****
There is more to dealing damage, or topping the HK charts with Mages, we can be very powerful in a supportive role.
Good luck, hope this helps.
Try to think of PvP as a mage like this. You ARE a DoT spell. DoTs do little bits of damage that add up to alot over time. As a mage that's what your trying to do. The small numbers from lance and blast will add up. Your job is to stay alive while they are "ticking".
Scholar
39 posts
First, thank-you all for post replies. All your comments really helped. I was very angry and frustrated when I first posted as you might have guessed.
I have always loved the frost spec. Heck, I leveled from 25 to 70 with it and had a great time. However, I just couldn't get it to work in PvP. i know it's supposed to be THE PvP spec, but without frostbolt, I just felt it was lacking. Slowing people down just wasn't good enough.
So, I have been playing around with alternatives. I'm currently working with an Arcane/Fire hybrid and have had great success. I still get squished an awful lot, but I feel like I do more damage going down. My numbers aren't quite what they were with frost, but I'm still getting used to things after being in the frost tree for so long.
I realize now we don't need any of the fancy stuff others have-healing, pets, dots, etc-to shine. But we do need some improvements. A longer silence would be nice. And more health would be great.
And warlocks are just too over-powered. Of all the classes out there, I hate them the most. They have a ton of health and instant casts all over the place combined with a pet. Just not fair. Bring their health down to mage levels. I saw one with 19,000 the other day. And they are always well over 10,000 while I'm still sitting under 8,000.
But thanks again to all of you. Reading your post brought me back. I love being a mage and wouldn't change the class for anything. I just want a little bit more love from blizzard, I think.
So, I'm learning how to be a better mage and slowly improving my skills and gear. Takes work, but it's fun again. The change in spec helped tons.
I have always loved the frost spec. Heck, I leveled from 25 to 70 with it and had a great time. However, I just couldn't get it to work in PvP. i know it's supposed to be THE PvP spec, but without frostbolt, I just felt it was lacking. Slowing people down just wasn't good enough.
So, I have been playing around with alternatives. I'm currently working with an Arcane/Fire hybrid and have had great success. I still get squished an awful lot, but I feel like I do more damage going down. My numbers aren't quite what they were with frost, but I'm still getting used to things after being in the frost tree for so long.
I realize now we don't need any of the fancy stuff others have-healing, pets, dots, etc-to shine. But we do need some improvements. A longer silence would be nice. And more health would be great.
And warlocks are just too over-powered. Of all the classes out there, I hate them the most. They have a ton of health and instant casts all over the place combined with a pet. Just not fair. Bring their health down to mage levels. I saw one with 19,000 the other day. And they are always well over 10,000 while I'm still sitting under 8,000.
But thanks again to all of you. Reading your post brought me back. I love being a mage and wouldn't change the class for anything. I just want a little bit more love from blizzard, I think.
So, I'm learning how to be a better mage and slowly improving my skills and gear. Takes work, but it's fun again. The change in spec helped tons.
Scholar
39 posts
Well, I destroyed a druid the other day in about 4 seconds. Got some lucky crits, but I also managed a nice combo. He never even hit me!
And I saw a great spellsteal-another mage in the BG stole slow fall from a horde mage. The horde mage died. Thought that was great.
And I saw a great spellsteal-another mage in the BG stole slow fall from a horde mage. The horde mage died. Thought that was great.
If your more into BGs atm then a arcane/fire build is just sick. I have just under 11k HP and 1k spell damage on my mage with 454 res. When I'm not planning on going to the arena for a while I'll go deep arcane with pyro and hit up BGs for days. When your AM are hitting for 900 a pop then you can toss in a ap/pom/pyro you feel like a god.
Frost is "the pvp spec" mainly due to arena. Having ice barrer and 2 IBs is great in 5s and pretty much needed in 2s/3s. But by all means, play with any and every spec. I've spent weeks as all frost, all fire, all arcane, arcane/frost, arcane/fire, and differen elemental builds. It's what keeps the game from getting old.
Just one piece of advice... whatch out where you put your new hotkeys. When you get used to hitting 3 for your frostbolt for so long.. putting your ap/pom/pyro macro there isn't such a good idea :)
Frost is "the pvp spec" mainly due to arena. Having ice barrer and 2 IBs is great in 5s and pretty much needed in 2s/3s. But by all means, play with any and every spec. I've spent weeks as all frost, all fire, all arcane, arcane/frost, arcane/fire, and differen elemental builds. It's what keeps the game from getting old.
Just one piece of advice... whatch out where you put your new hotkeys. When you get used to hitting 3 for your frostbolt for so long.. putting your ap/pom/pyro macro there isn't such a good idea :)
I play fire in BGs but will respec frost someday. Frosties just seem to own. Here's a hint: Rank 1 frostbolt.
It takes 1.5 secs to cast but will still slow an opponent and possibly freeze them in place if you have the talent (presume you do). Then they're set up for a shatter combo. Spam that at warriors all day long, they'll never lay a glove on you.
And, frankly, there is little scarier than a mage with Ice Barrier up charging into a knot of enemies and spamming AB and CoC. Sure, the mage dies, but takes 3-4 Ally (or Horde) with him. Don't stress about dying, it's part of being a clothie.
It takes 1.5 secs to cast but will still slow an opponent and possibly freeze them in place if you have the talent (presume you do). Then they're set up for a shatter combo. Spam that at warriors all day long, they'll never lay a glove on you.
And, frankly, there is little scarier than a mage with Ice Barrier up charging into a knot of enemies and spamming AB and CoC. Sure, the mage dies, but takes 3-4 Ally (or Horde) with him. Don't stress about dying, it's part of being a clothie.
Well, it is obvious, that mages DO have serveral shortcomes atm. Anyone who will argue that is pretty dumb, dillusive or very good xD.
Mages are not bad. It is however a fact that we, as the squishiest class of all, designed to do the very best AoE dmg ingame, and should be pretty much amongst the 2 best dmg dealers are neither.
In PvP we do have our issues, they're to a large extent not the ones you mentioned, but we do have some. It is NOT possible to kill a heal dudu. Nearly any equal geared healer who has some obstacle to hide behind won't be killed by a mage. Boonkins are unbeatable with some obstacle. Rogues are beatable in 1 out of 10 fights, under ideal conditions IF you have insane gear and skills. Nearly anything that goes wrong with the fight, no matter if it would normally affect both fighters, are a benefit for the rogue (mobs aggroed/guards->vanish and they're after you).
On the other hand mages do really pwn in BG PvP imo. I'm playing 40/0/21 for fun atm, and I'm usually number 1 in dmage, hands down. Unless I get focused a lot, or there is a warlock (they do much dmg, cuz they can dot several targets at once without risking too much, and die significantly less, while nevah running oom). Sometimes I spend half the time in a bg in a GY, and am still number one on the counter. My gear lvl is 3/8 s4 1/8 s3 4/8 s2 rest is the very best you can get. In 17/0/44 I usually don't do as much damage, but I'm still up there.
What makes mages seem worse than they are, is the fact, that mage is one of the hardest classes to play. You can add a little twist to every class in the game, by having real much skill, but the mage class is nearly unplayable without good gear, and advanced keybindings + movement skills. If you want to have it that way, you could say, that the skill needed to play a mage successful is actually just another of the issues we have.
There is a reason, why there is so many high rated mage PvP videos out there, and why there are so few of some other classes. This is, because ppl know and acnowledge the fact that mage is hard to play, and someone has mastered it (in some cases to an amazing extent).
I play my mage, because after getting pretty far with my gear and Skills/keybinds I'd rather shoot myself than play any EZ-mode class, just for winning. It is challenging to play a mage, but you also wont feel the desire, to change the charr once you got the hang of it. I've thought about rerolling, but I've come to the decision for myself, that anything else than mage would just bore me to death. My only desire would be that we could get a shot at beating some of those unbeatable classes, without becoming EZ-mode.
Nah, my hardest desire is actually to get rid of TBC, and play normal wow pre-TBC xD, GL with your mage ^^
Mages are not bad. It is however a fact that we, as the squishiest class of all, designed to do the very best AoE dmg ingame, and should be pretty much amongst the 2 best dmg dealers are neither.
In PvP we do have our issues, they're to a large extent not the ones you mentioned, but we do have some. It is NOT possible to kill a heal dudu. Nearly any equal geared healer who has some obstacle to hide behind won't be killed by a mage. Boonkins are unbeatable with some obstacle. Rogues are beatable in 1 out of 10 fights, under ideal conditions IF you have insane gear and skills. Nearly anything that goes wrong with the fight, no matter if it would normally affect both fighters, are a benefit for the rogue (mobs aggroed/guards->vanish and they're after you).
On the other hand mages do really pwn in BG PvP imo. I'm playing 40/0/21 for fun atm, and I'm usually number 1 in dmage, hands down. Unless I get focused a lot, or there is a warlock (they do much dmg, cuz they can dot several targets at once without risking too much, and die significantly less, while nevah running oom). Sometimes I spend half the time in a bg in a GY, and am still number one on the counter. My gear lvl is 3/8 s4 1/8 s3 4/8 s2 rest is the very best you can get. In 17/0/44 I usually don't do as much damage, but I'm still up there.
What makes mages seem worse than they are, is the fact, that mage is one of the hardest classes to play. You can add a little twist to every class in the game, by having real much skill, but the mage class is nearly unplayable without good gear, and advanced keybindings + movement skills. If you want to have it that way, you could say, that the skill needed to play a mage successful is actually just another of the issues we have.
There is a reason, why there is so many high rated mage PvP videos out there, and why there are so few of some other classes. This is, because ppl know and acnowledge the fact that mage is hard to play, and someone has mastered it (in some cases to an amazing extent).
I play my mage, because after getting pretty far with my gear and Skills/keybinds I'd rather shoot myself than play any EZ-mode class, just for winning. It is challenging to play a mage, but you also wont feel the desire, to change the charr once you got the hang of it. I've thought about rerolling, but I've come to the decision for myself, that anything else than mage would just bore me to death. My only desire would be that we could get a shot at beating some of those unbeatable classes, without becoming EZ-mode.
Nah, my hardest desire is actually to get rid of TBC, and play normal wow pre-TBC xD, GL with your mage ^^
I do understand what your saying about resto druids. Even with great PVP gear as a mage a well geared resto druid is almost impossible to kill out in the open, much less if they have some poles to hump. And locks will always be a issue as a mage.
However, once you get S3/S4 and good gems most other classes aren't near as hard 1v1. Rogues become pretty easy once you get above 10k HP and high res. What makes rogues hard is that they can deal mass amounts of damage with all their CDs. But once you learn how to counter them and have the HP and res to get through their starting burst they just become leather wearing warriors without intercept. Boomkins are my favorite class to fight now. They don't stand a chance against a well geared frosty. You can hit harder and they really can't do anything about it. Use your ele to get off a shatter combo then watch them run away.
Your right to say that mages are one of the harder classes to master in PVP. You can't mess up and you have to learn to take advantage of others ***** ups. Just keep at it and duel everyone you can. I don't know what your server is like but on spinebroken there's never a shortage of rogues and locks outside of org. Just duel them as much as you can stand and things will start to come around for you.
However, once you get S3/S4 and good gems most other classes aren't near as hard 1v1. Rogues become pretty easy once you get above 10k HP and high res. What makes rogues hard is that they can deal mass amounts of damage with all their CDs. But once you learn how to counter them and have the HP and res to get through their starting burst they just become leather wearing warriors without intercept. Boomkins are my favorite class to fight now. They don't stand a chance against a well geared frosty. You can hit harder and they really can't do anything about it. Use your ele to get off a shatter combo then watch them run away.
Your right to say that mages are one of the harder classes to master in PVP. You can't mess up and you have to learn to take advantage of others ***** ups. Just keep at it and duel everyone you can. I don't know what your server is like but on spinebroken there's never a shortage of rogues and locks outside of org. Just duel them as much as you can stand and things will start to come around for you.
The thing you say about rogues becoming easy with s3/s4 gear holds true only for fighting s1/s2 rogues, who got no real clue. Rogues of the same gear lvl will stay the same as before. They deal massive DPS, and they don't need intercept to come close like warriors do.
A usual fight goes like this, corect me if I'm wrong:
Cheap shot: You cannot blink, because he will shadowstep and stun you, and then you will either have to eat the dmg or IB, which is a bad thing if he haven't even used CoS yet.
Cheap shot ends: I nova him and try to get my ele out. I dont get soo far, because I have crippling on me, he pops CoS and stays on me. I iceblock. Now if he'S a real unnice person, he will abuse the time I'm in IB to vanish, run and wait for his CDs to come back up and my ele to despawn, since I cannot leave IB for about 2 secnds, even if I spam my macro.
Or he kills my ele in a few shots or anything else. So far I haven't gained real distance, and he still has shadowstep, which he will use now to get pressure back up. If I use PvP trinket, to try and gain distance, even the better, he will blind me after, and restealth, or bandage and restealth, and use another opener.
The hard thing about rogue is Imo that he does as much damage as you can do on him, and can basically counterspell you every 3 seconds with deadly throw and kick. His DPS isn't interruptable, and he also has some pretty short-CD moves to counter everything mages can do. The fight usually ends with me gaining some control, and suddenly being stunlocked with no CDs left, to evade, and then being nuked down in a few seconds.
It is possible, to trick rogues, and to sheep them, but they have fairly many tools to keep up pressure, an you need to lucky. Additionally you will still lose then pretty often, since you become low on hp while trying to gain control, and frankly, your CC heals him, while his doesnt heal you.
*Edit* Oh and BTW, Boomkins are hybrinds, so while they can just run behind some obstacle, moonfire and insect swarm you, and hot themselves, you cant do any DPS with shapeshift and all the goodies, while he can always jump out and moonfire you, when you yourself are trying to regenerate some hp and mana. I have tried in arena, when it was just me and a balance left, both had pretty same %, and I wasn't even able to but up something that remotely resembles pressure on him, while he was constantly keeping me from taking any action at all.
Edited, Aug 19th 2008 4:06am by Groarr
A usual fight goes like this, corect me if I'm wrong:
Cheap shot: You cannot blink, because he will shadowstep and stun you, and then you will either have to eat the dmg or IB, which is a bad thing if he haven't even used CoS yet.
Cheap shot ends: I nova him and try to get my ele out. I dont get soo far, because I have crippling on me, he pops CoS and stays on me. I iceblock. Now if he'S a real unnice person, he will abuse the time I'm in IB to vanish, run and wait for his CDs to come back up and my ele to despawn, since I cannot leave IB for about 2 secnds, even if I spam my macro.
Or he kills my ele in a few shots or anything else. So far I haven't gained real distance, and he still has shadowstep, which he will use now to get pressure back up. If I use PvP trinket, to try and gain distance, even the better, he will blind me after, and restealth, or bandage and restealth, and use another opener.
The hard thing about rogue is Imo that he does as much damage as you can do on him, and can basically counterspell you every 3 seconds with deadly throw and kick. His DPS isn't interruptable, and he also has some pretty short-CD moves to counter everything mages can do. The fight usually ends with me gaining some control, and suddenly being stunlocked with no CDs left, to evade, and then being nuked down in a few seconds.
It is possible, to trick rogues, and to sheep them, but they have fairly many tools to keep up pressure, an you need to lucky. Additionally you will still lose then pretty often, since you become low on hp while trying to gain control, and frankly, your CC heals him, while his doesnt heal you.
*Edit* Oh and BTW, Boomkins are hybrinds, so while they can just run behind some obstacle, moonfire and insect swarm you, and hot themselves, you cant do any DPS with shapeshift and all the goodies, while he can always jump out and moonfire you, when you yourself are trying to regenerate some hp and mana. I have tried in arena, when it was just me and a balance left, both had pretty same %, and I wasn't even able to but up something that remotely resembles pressure on him, while he was constantly keeping me from taking any action at all.
Edited, Aug 19th 2008 4:06am by Groarr
Scholar
39 posts
After changing my spec and reading here, I am really seeing how much skill goes into being a mage. Many other classes don't need nearly as much skill to put out a decent battle in the Bg's-hunters and warlock come to mind. I have seen some really good hunters and warlocks, but most just seem to be pushing buttons.
Yesterday, I came accross an amazing mage. He was fire specced and was absolutley deadly. Killed me about 5 times, but I kept seeking him out just to watch how he would do it. I went down in every fight in under a minute it seems. Effective use of sheep, masterful use of fire spells. He was in control of most of the fights I watched him in. Granted, things did turn bad for him once and a while, but overall, be put out tremendous damage and killed a lot of players. Wish I could remember his name. Undead fire mage. I remember the dragons breath.
What has been said about rogues is exactly what I've seen. The better geared the rogue, the quicker I go down. I can take down bad rogues, but they still do damage. They seem to be perfectly designed to kill mages.
I use iceblock alot. Wish it had a quicker cooldown. And rank 1 frostbolt is a great idea. Using that too. And rank 1 arcane explosion is a good way to draw rogues out of stealth.
Overall, I am having fun again. Still get frustrated at going down so fast, but learning to deal with it. I'm learning my keybindings as I go(changing has a steep learning curve-I did the same PoM Pyro mistke as one of the posters above).
Still, it doesn't feel like Blizzard likes us much. They really seem to be fascinated with the hybrid classes. I'm just not interested in them.
I thought about re-rolling as a warlock, but warlocks are so.........dirty.
Mage is a much more complex and subtle class than it seems. Takes a lot of practice to develop the skill to be truly good.
Thanks again to everyone who replied. Every post has helped me out a ton.
Yesterday, I came accross an amazing mage. He was fire specced and was absolutley deadly. Killed me about 5 times, but I kept seeking him out just to watch how he would do it. I went down in every fight in under a minute it seems. Effective use of sheep, masterful use of fire spells. He was in control of most of the fights I watched him in. Granted, things did turn bad for him once and a while, but overall, be put out tremendous damage and killed a lot of players. Wish I could remember his name. Undead fire mage. I remember the dragons breath.
What has been said about rogues is exactly what I've seen. The better geared the rogue, the quicker I go down. I can take down bad rogues, but they still do damage. They seem to be perfectly designed to kill mages.
I use iceblock alot. Wish it had a quicker cooldown. And rank 1 frostbolt is a great idea. Using that too. And rank 1 arcane explosion is a good way to draw rogues out of stealth.
Overall, I am having fun again. Still get frustrated at going down so fast, but learning to deal with it. I'm learning my keybindings as I go(changing has a steep learning curve-I did the same PoM Pyro mistke as one of the posters above).
Still, it doesn't feel like Blizzard likes us much. They really seem to be fascinated with the hybrid classes. I'm just not interested in them.
I thought about re-rolling as a warlock, but warlocks are so.........dirty.
Mage is a much more complex and subtle class than it seems. Takes a lot of practice to develop the skill to be truly good.
Thanks again to everyone who replied. Every post has helped me out a ton.
25 posts
I don't have trouble with warriors...
They charge, you frost nova, step back and sheep and resheep (incase he trinkets out the first sheep)
Then cast a rank 1 frost bolt to slow him...
and when he intercepts you, you blink and start kiting him. If he gets too close, use CoC or frost nova (if its up).
Occasionally, he'll get frosted from your ice armor/frost nova and thats when you can step back and do a shatter combo. I was told only to blink when he uses intercept since intercept and blink both have 15 second cool downs.
They charge, you frost nova, step back and sheep and resheep (incase he trinkets out the first sheep)
Then cast a rank 1 frost bolt to slow him...
and when he intercepts you, you blink and start kiting him. If he gets too close, use CoC or frost nova (if its up).
Occasionally, he'll get frosted from your ice armor/frost nova and thats when you can step back and do a shatter combo. I was told only to blink when he uses intercept since intercept and blink both have 15 second cool downs.
Groarr wrote:
*Edit* Oh and BTW, Boomkins are hybrinds, so while they can just run behind some obstacle, moonfire and insect swarm you, and hot themselves, you cant do any DPS with shapeshift and all the goodies, while he can always jump out and moonfire you, when you yourself are trying to regenerate some hp and mana. I have tried in arena, when it was just me and a balance left, both had pretty same %, and I wasn't even able to but up something that remotely resembles pressure on him, while he was constantly keeping me from taking any action at all.
Edited, Aug 19th 2008 4:06am by Groarr
Got to disagree here. I eat Boomkins for breakfast. I'm 41/20/0, and boomkins are gonna drop to about 50% or lower from a decent pom pyro. Add fireblast, slow, ice lance or AM, and it's a dead boomkin.
Non-melee shammys get lit up the same way. I can often smoke them before they can do much of anything.
I truly love playing my Mage... for PvE. PvP not so much. And I enjoy PvP, a LOT, with the right class. Gimme my hunter, my rogue, my paladin, I'll spend all night playing BGs.
PvP on a Mage is a LOT different than just about any other charcater. You have to put some thought into where and how you're going to hit them. Yes, we're glass cannons. However, if you play to your strengths, you'll find that you're more cannon than glass. Pick your fights. Warriors should be fodder, if you're specced correctly. (I'm not specced for PvP, I enjoy PvE too much to spend the money to go back and forth.)
Practice. Often. BGs aren't about winning, marks or honor. Its about having fun. If you practice you're likely to get better. And, if it ends up that you really don't like playing a Mage for PvP, roll a Rogue. They are tons of fun. :)
PvP on a Mage is a LOT different than just about any other charcater. You have to put some thought into where and how you're going to hit them. Yes, we're glass cannons. However, if you play to your strengths, you'll find that you're more cannon than glass. Pick your fights. Warriors should be fodder, if you're specced correctly. (I'm not specced for PvP, I enjoy PvE too much to spend the money to go back and forth.)
Practice. Often. BGs aren't about winning, marks or honor. Its about having fun. If you practice you're likely to get better. And, if it ends up that you really don't like playing a Mage for PvP, roll a Rogue. They are tons of fun. :)
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