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#27 Aug 24 2008 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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89 posts
I will make this simple. Most of the best druid caster leather is either a leatherworking recipe or badge of justice reward. This is if you are limiting yourself to staying in leather gear. I am rather proud to say that as a balance druid before I stopped playing I was in almost all leather for raiding. In this gear I was managing +934 to spell damage and a 18.5% crit chance before moonkin form and any buffs. So it is possible to reach high levels of spell damage in leather but your main source of this gear is not from raids. The raids will get a moonkin his tier sets which are very good in thier own right. If you fell like seeing the gear I was using take a look at Mandragal on the Kirin Tor server. His gear is still showing right now and I may soon be rejoining WoW. Sometimes one just needs a break.

The cloth items that one picks up are to make up until leather can be found. I see no issue with a moonkin druid going after cloth items either. They are very good for spell damage and spell hit. That is a point which most spell damage leather does not get is the spell hit. All casters need this to be successful in raiding.

I will say that your raid leader seems a bit insane with his opinions of what a druid should do. He has obviously never played such a flexible class and does not wish to realize the true potential of what they can do if properly geared and used in the boss killing strategies. But that is neither here nor there. I do somewhat agree that the clothies should have access to those items first only in the sense that that is the only gear they can use for armor. Every guild I have been in has had the "rule" that depending on armor type, the class that uses that type as the best it can use gets first dibs. If none of those classes wants it then the other classes get fair game access to it.

I will also include one final bit, There are a limited number of players on these raids. Given enough time you will eventually get the gear you are seeking. Give it time, be patient and things will eventually work out.
#28 Aug 24 2008 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Did a bit of playing around on www.lootrank.com looking at the best leather gear and best cloth gear at each level of progression. This doesn't include rings, weapon, trinkets, cloaks or necks as these are common between leather & cloth boomies. I included all gear except BoP profession gear (although I think cloth wins here) and arena stuff that requires a rating.


 
 
Progression   Cloth(dam+crit= total)   Leather(dam+crit= total) 
 
Sunwell           645+282= 927            611+243= 854 
 
T6                567+282= 849            554+218= 772 
 
T5                512+270= 782            517+161= 678 
 
T4 & ZA           521+249= 770            528+142= 670 
 




Interesting to see that a T4 Clothkin's Cloth items are equivalent to a T6 Leatherkin's Leather gear.

In my raids, if it is an upgrade for you, no matter what type of armor, then we want you to take the item if you have the most DKP. It doesn't matter if you are a "support" class - everyone who DPS's should be doing the absolute best they can to maximise their DPS. After all, that extra armor from leather won't save you in higher end raids if you are being smashed by a mob.

The T4 Leatherkin BTW had zero raid leather - it was all BoJ gear. The T5 leatherkin had only one leather raid drop. Also, in many (most) cases there was often 2 or 3 (sometimes 5-6+) cloth items that were better than the best leather item at that level, so you shouldn't feel too guilty taking cloth items, there are plenty to go around.

Going with leather only is like trying to follow Blizzards itemisation for druid where they figured because we were all-rounders that our gear should have a mix of stats for all our roles eg Wildheart Raiment - our Teir 0 set. The net result if you tried to use it was that you were crap at everything, so nobody used it. Being a leatherkin isn't that bad, but you are definitely limiting yourself. In a game where raiding is all about squeezing every little bit out of your gear & buffs & group composition, that is not a good thing.



Edited, Aug 25th 2008 1:36am by RareBeast
#29 Aug 25 2008 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
That's funny, all evidence is pointing towards the usage of cloth. Fancy that.
#30 Aug 25 2008 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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I had to comment on this. I am so tired of ppl not willing to put time and work into there toon. Whats the diff it it takes badge gear to gear a Moonkin, it's there so gear him up. Every body wants gear just handed to them in raids instead of actually have to work for some of it. What ever happened to the days where you got to 70 ran and ran till you could do heroics then ran till you were geared enough to run Kara now these weak minded lazy ppl run a couple instances at 70 and boom there ready for raiding no attunements or nothing. So they have a chance to get gear which alot of is just below T6 lvl and they whine they have to run heroics for it. Thats what I call damn lazy.


who ever said i aint putting time in on the gear?? i have harder playing times due to work for getting groups on my server much less being boomkin. "LF1M dps/CC" "LF2M dps/CC". i find it very hard to find groups due to the lack of stable cc. much less the doing less damage than equaly geared and played mage/lock/rogue/hunter. all who have cc and get groups easier than i do. i even went feral and have a feral kara ready set for weeks i cant get groups as boomkin i go tank and use my badges for my gear. and behold the badge leather gear isn't as good as cloth gear 9times out of 10. AS for everyone wanting gear handed to them in raids thats aload of bull ****. i spend the same amount of money on consumeables, put in just as much time in the raid, do more than just dps ( oh yeah that spell damage also counts to my healing when in a pinch i have to heal imagine that) and for what a chance to roll on an item wich by the time i can get it we will be progressing on to next tier?? last gruuls run i toped the damage on the casters. only two people would have betten me was the mage tank who was tanking so not doing max dps and the lock who was beating me till he loged his main in to tank gruul. but even toping damage doing my b-rezz 2 times spot healing where looked like someone may need it. i still couldnt roll on a cloth item if it was an upgrade cause i can wear leather. tell me that and bull **** and i'll show you a lier.

i'm sporting almost 1k sd 1 point from max spell hit and a 17% crit atm. tell me i'm not gearing up right, seeing i've yet to get a drop out of 25 man besides t4 legs. all that buff free but in mostly cloth with 3 leather atm just cause i havent gotten the badges for the cloth chest and legs yet been working on lower costing badge gear first.
#31REDACTED, Posted: Aug 26 2008 at 9:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well I'm sorry for your guild if your doing top dps. Your druid has around 7 pieces of kara gear thats it and your semi retired palladin has app. 6 kara, 1 ZA and 1 gruls drops. My question is how do you retire a toon that hasn't even started to progress yet.See I find that is one of the problems also, alot of ppl get tired of there toon so fast and start others they never really learn there toons. We have a guy in our guild that has like 6, 70s and suck at all of them. Now I'm not saying all ppl are like that I also know a guy that has 1 of each toon at 70, hord side and plays them all good' Those ppl are harder to find.If I'm not mistakken isn't max hit 152 with 2 points into Balance of power? I am now upgrading my moonkin gear to the newer Badge gear only about 4 pieces because I find my dps lacking and thats with my Hit gear on a boss at 151 Hit 1098 spell damage with 27 crit.
#32 Aug 26 2008 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
I think you're failing to realize not all of us are on high pop servers with t6 raiding guilds. I'm on Ysondre, my guild Infinite Uprising is just entering into the t5 content, and guess what. We're one of the best raiding guilds on the alliance side.

Stop preaching about gear progression when some of us don't have the option to hit the t6 gear probably until WOTLK comes out and we're all level 80. You wonder why a lot of moonkins wear cloth, isn't it obvious?
#33 Aug 26 2008 at 10:05 AM Rating: Default
[] i toped the damage on the casters. only two people would have betten me was the mage tank who was tanking so not doing max dps and the lock who was beating me till he loged his main in to tank gruul. but even toping damage doing my b-rezz 2 times spot healing where looked like someone may need it. i still couldnt roll on a cloth item if it was an upgrade cause i can wear leather. tell me that and bull sh*t and i'll show you a lier. [/]


Am I confused or did you say used your B-rezz 2 times lol. Thats one long fight. I must say when I have to Heal B-rezz and DPS my Damage takes a major hit you must show me how you do all that and still remain top caster DPS. Especially when moonkin heals suck *** and your useing mana that oomkins have a lake of as far as regen. I find even when asked to rez it bites into my ever so small pool of mana I norm have to go and beat on the boss for some mana back.
#34 Aug 26 2008 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
Small mana pool? Wtf, I have 13k mana raid buffed as boomkin.

I'm still looking forward to when you counter everything we've said and pointed out with undisputable evidence. Or when you stop avoiding the topic at hand. Perhaps you'll realize that you are not only out numbered, but terribly wrong.
#35 Aug 26 2008 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
yes 2 battle rezzes 1 on highking and one on gruul.

lol if your looking at my tankadin pally thats pretty sad thats the healing gear i picked up. my pally is semi retired cause 1. my work changed times i work so i dont get to progress with the raid. 2. we have pretty many tanks who want to go and who can use the gear more so i lvled my boomkin up to fill in dps seeing we have like 2-3 prot pallies 2 feral druids(think only 1 really has tanking gear) like 2-3 prot warriors with some fury ones that have tanking gear i belive. all who want in the raid so yeah i backed off and lvled a boomkin.

my guild is progressing through ssc and tk still so no we aint t6 yet and i dont get to run stuff so im even gearing the druid slow due to lack of badges. just got belt of blasting so now over hit rateing. all this talk of your boomkin i see no armory and doubt you would post a real one of your toon anyways. never trust a 5 post person who only post in one thread....... notice spot healing meaning tossing a insta hot here and there after shatters and such didnt mean hey i'll keep rotating life blooms up on these two guys and dps.
#36 Aug 28 2008 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
As I fully expected, he has no response. I love invalid points with no evidence backing them.

Punkspider, don't worry. You've done everything you need to do as a boomkin to further your raid progress. Don't let some naysayyer with no name try to tell you otherwise.

Remember, we can't all be elitists like him.
#37REDACTED, Posted: Aug 28 2008 at 4:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Your so funny, not only did I give my toons name I gave my realm and again I say see you are lazy if you can't type or is it you don't know how to use the armory like your toon and bye the way who is crying about gear? You guys are, I'm happy not rolling on cloth so who's the real loser hear? And yes I misstated when I said mana pool when I ment mana regen. I guess when your still doing Gruls you don't relize how long a fight can be. This is so you don't hurt your fingers.
#38 Aug 28 2008 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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355 posts
Wasn't he talking down to someone with 1800 +heals? When his healer has 1600, and 166 mp5 while casting? I don't know how he gets through trash without popping innervate....


Edit: WOW...I hadn't even bothered checking out his feral, but it is even worse...it couldn't tank kara, much less heroics.

Edited, Aug 28th 2008 10:12pm by anonymosity
#39 Aug 28 2008 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
lol full arena gear boomkin woot that says alot. hmm highly lacking feral druid hmm yeah great links click my boomkin and you may find some upgrades for your feral since i just went back to feral due to lack of tanks at night when i can play and pick up groups.
#40REDACTED, Posted: Aug 28 2008 at 6:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why dont you look at that gear can you say pvp notice the 476 to res wow your on top of it. Dude Ive got more sets of gear than you have brain cells. To not even mention Im not resto right now. Funny thing is he spouted off about 1900 heals when he only has 1200 lol. So maybe you should think twice before you try jumping someone.
#41REDACTED, Posted: Aug 28 2008 at 6:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Punky lol, my feral druid hit 70 like 1 month and is a side project I didn't link him for his gear lol. I linked him because sum whinner claimed I didn't have 2 lvl 70 druids. So I hope you enjoy your life as an OT in kara I must go back to work. Keep checking out Casters armory and you might get a glimps of some the fine leather gear I have. Again not the best but surely better than your cloth.
#42 Aug 28 2008 at 8:12 PM Rating: Default
lol not gonna waste my time checking on your guy more than once sorry.
#43 Aug 29 2008 at 2:05 AM Rating: Decent
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3,114 posts
wutdoino wrote:
Keep checking out Casters armory and you might get a glimps of some the fine leather gear I have.


Kinda funny, but did you know some of the cloth pieces are actually better than the leather? For example, the chestpiece you've got vs this one.
#44REDACTED, Posted: Aug 29 2008 at 5:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So I wonder how many Ele Shamies out there wear that and again I will state again for the ignorent I do not claim to have the best gear lol, although I still won't consider that better. see mine only cost 60 badges. You guys can defend being clothie Moonkins all you want. In fact I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy my Moonkin, but I guess that won't happen cus your stuck in hear complaining about not getting cloth lol. I'm done in this forum.
#45 Aug 30 2008 at 12:41 AM Rating: Decent
lol please tell me your jokeing on your gear being better not counting the healing set you sported the first time but now your not hit cap have less spell damage than i do only thing you have is more crit and armor. 73 spell hit rateing verse my over hit cap 929 spell damage verse my slightly higher 950+. sad quote but a good one you cant crit or damage if you cant hit. get hit capted then talk to me about your gear being better than mine lol oh well good luck bro and hope you really look at your "raid gear" before saying it's better than someone elses.
#46 Aug 30 2008 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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3,114 posts
wutdoino wrote:
So I wonder how many Ele Shamies out there wear that


None, because THERE IS CASTER MAIL DROPS IN RAID ENVIRONMENTS.
#47REDACTED, Posted: Aug 30 2008 at 5:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So again ignorance brings me back. So I assume you don't have a setup for Hit and a setup for crit lol because you do know you don't need to be hit capped while doing trash mobs lol this really shows how you don't know enthing about raiding. I swear I will not respond to enmore dumb comments from you save your hit for bosses noob.
#48 Sep 02 2008 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
Quote:
So again ignorance brings me back. So I assume you don't have a setup for Hit and a setup for crit lol because you do know you don't need to be hit capped while doing trash mobs lol this really shows how you don't know enthing about raiding. I swear I will not respond to enmore dumb comments from you save your hit for bosses noob.


Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

If you were anything of a raider you would learn to balance out your hit/crit rating. I would be willing to bet you don't even know the boomkin spell hit rating cap with or without balance of power. Please keep on acting like you're the know all of boomkin. I'll gladly direct you back to my armory and you'll see that I have 950ish spell damage. Which is only slightly less than yours. I have a higher spell hit rating because I know how to spec.

You have one drop out of za and the rest is kara/badge gear. I have plenty of ZA drops along with mixed kara/badge gear.

Your spec has a few issues. You've spec'd into Treants, worthless. You don't have 2/2 Balance of Power, lets not talk about that spell hit rating. Imp Faerie Fire does nothing for a boomkin, it only helps melee dps and ranged dps, such as a hunter.

Your guild is ranked 44th in your server, only seeing up to 2/5 of MH, 3/4 of TK and 4/6 of SSC. Your gear leads me to believe that you've never done any of these raids as a boomkin. There are 7 guilds on your server doing Sunwell, so don't act or talk like you've been in there or done it.

Please, stop being an arrogant *** and arguing for the sake of it. You're obviously outnumbered, outsmarted, and undoubtedly have no evidence to back your arguements. Please, just accept your falacies.

EDIT: I noticed that you said something about my heals, I'll be resto tonight after ZA so please check out my armory around 12pm central and you'll see my 1970 heals.



Edited, Sep 2nd 2008 2:25pm by ArexLovesPie
#49 Sep 02 2008 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
Wow you sound like a chick I know. 1. when did I say I was ever in Sunwell? 2. Yes I made a mistake and didn't put 2 into Balance of power. I was in a hurry cause I was asked to put 3 into Farrie ( FOR the Melee and Ranged ) which the GM of LI ( # 2 guild on my server ) offered to pay my respec to do. So you must tell him why it's useless. Oh and cry because he also wanted me to come to MH with them and some others from my guild but couldn't because of family plans. But will be asked again I hope this weekend. I always spec Treants so when I'm doing my dailies and some caster tries to gank me, I find them very helpfull. 4. Why do you keep acting like 1900 to heals is really something to brag about especially in cloth. We don't even let our healers go past mags unless they have 1800 to heals.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2008 7:49pm by wutdoino
#50 Sep 06 2008 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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66 posts
Quote:
You've spec'd into Treants, worthless



As a moonkin raiding 5/5 hyjal and 8/9 bt i feel this trees arent very worthless.

i will admit they somtimes die very quickly, and can get you in trouble if not used properly. (read something dies and they go pull another group) but... on bosses they can do a significant amount of damage depending on how long the fight is.

if my guild wanted me to spec into impFF i would prob ditch the trees, but since they dont care im keeping them.
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