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Raid Gear or Opportunist's Battlegear?Follow
Been a pretty devout PvEer, but I am looking to get some swords to up my damage. As I have mentioned previously, my intent is to get the badge fists and respec combat fist for raids and ShS for BG to get the Merc swords. The question is, do I do the BGs in my Kara gear, or should I buy the Opportunist's set and use that?
Why on earth would you use resilience in BGs?
I usually use ~200 resil in BGs, because when I'm going to die, cheat death isn't gonna help me.
I usually use ~200 resil in BGs, because when I'm going to die, cheat death isn't gonna help me.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Why on earth would you use resilience in BGs?
I usually use ~200 resil in BGs, because when I'm going to die, cheat death isn't gonna help me.
I usually use ~200 resil in BGs, because when I'm going to die, cheat death isn't gonna help me.
You have stumped me on this one Theo. I am not sure if you are saying I shouldn't worry about Res because I am going to get pummeled to quickly or if you are saying that I should because CD isn't gonna work unless you have enough.
Honestly, I haven't PvPed since my late 40s when I got a new dagger for my Mutilate respec and I am not familiar with 70 PvP at all. I didn't see any BG specific info in your FAQ, it is pointed mostly at Arena. If my raid gear will do me fine than that is one less thing to spend money on.
I was just looking at it as raid gear is raid gear and PvP gear is for PvP. Wouldn't the Opp set give me a lot more HP and a little more survivability?
Edited, Aug 11th 2008 4:06pm by AtrophyGFour
Will you be PvPing after you get the S2 swords? You'll have 140 resil off this gear, which is pretty bad, but if you aren't going to be doing much pvp afterwards, I wouldn't buy it. If you are, it's a cheap starter set, so buy it if you've got the rep.
Theo - I do the same, usually switching out my belt neck and chest for BG's to get the bonus AP.
Edited, Aug 11th 2008 4:22pm by ThomasMagnum
Theo - I do the same, usually switching out my belt neck and chest for BG's to get the bonus AP.
Edited, Aug 11th 2008 4:22pm by ThomasMagnum
ThomasMagnum wrote:
Will you be PvPing after you get the S2 swords? You'll have 140 resil off this gear, which is pretty bad, but if you aren't going to be doing much pvp afterwards, I wouldn't buy it. If you are, it's a cheap starter set, so buy it if you've got the rep.
Theo - I do the same, switching out pants and chest for BG's to get the bonus AP.
Theo - I do the same, switching out pants and chest for BG's to get the bonus AP.
Probably not. I am really just in it for the swords and then I will be back to strictly raiding.
Of course, I may find that I like it and keep going. You never know. The focus for now is going to be my badges...30 to go!
AtrophyGFour wrote:
The focus for now is going to be my badges...30 to go!
Then I'd stick to heroics/karazhan for a week and you'll have your fists. I can't see the point of going for the Merc swords when they aren't that much of a dps increase, especially since your focus is on getting badges and the fists. Then you can continue doing more PVE.
Why did you think of getting the S2 swords in the first place? Has someone told you that you must get them?
Leodis wrote:
AtrophyGFour wrote:
The focus for now is going to be my badges...30 to go!
Then I'd stick to heroics/karazhan for a week and you'll have your fists. I can't see the point of going for the Merc swords when they aren't that much of a dps increase, especially since your focus is on getting badges and the fists. Then you can continue doing more PVE.
Why did you think of getting the S2 swords in the first place? Has someone told you that you must get them?
I have been Mutilate since 50 and I love the play style, but I have given in that combat is superior and if I want to optimize my DPS (especially since my guild is getting ready to start Gruuls and Mag) then I need to respec. My intention is to get the badge fists and respec combat fist for raids. During the week I will BG as ShS. When I get enough honor I will buy the Mercs and then respec swords and probably forget PvP for a while longer.
I have 120 badges in the bank, so I am only 30 short of the fists. If we clear Kara this weekend, then I can easily do the Heroics to make up the difference. After that I just start saving up again for the belt, pants, chest and so forth.
I ran the numbers in the spread sheet and it did show the swords as more DPS than the fists, but it wasn't the huge upgrade that the fists will be to my daggers. I will plug it in again tomorrow and see what it says for an exact number.
In that situation, I'd just go for the fists. The amount of time you'd need to invest in the Merc swords wouldn't justify the slight DPS difference. The cost of the Opportunist's set isn't in the pieces, it's in the gems and enchants. Also, in your case I wouldn't bother.
Good luck on clearing out t4 content! Mags is kinda stupid easy now and Gruuls is just a race against how many growths your tank and healers can handle. Both pretty easy for rogues. And remember, you can cloak out of the slow effect, but not the shatter!
Happy hunting!
Good luck on clearing out t4 content! Mags is kinda stupid easy now and Gruuls is just a race against how many growths your tank and healers can handle. Both pretty easy for rogues. And remember, you can cloak out of the slow effect, but not the shatter!
Happy hunting!
Wait...
S2 Swords>Badge Fists for DPS?
That is just plain wrong unless you have some seriously wacked gear.
Make sure you changed your spec to account for the weapons, make sure you have the precise gear you will be using to PvE, and lastly make sure to use the spreadsheet in the Sticky which is the most accurate.
I could see S3 swrods being ebtter than Badge Fists, but not S2 so something has to be wrong there.
S2 Swords>Badge Fists for DPS?
That is just plain wrong unless you have some seriously wacked gear.
Make sure you changed your spec to account for the weapons, make sure you have the precise gear you will be using to PvE, and lastly make sure to use the spreadsheet in the Sticky which is the most accurate.
I could see S3 swrods being ebtter than Badge Fists, but not S2 so something has to be wrong there.
S2 swords can't be better than Badge fists!
There is wrong thinking that every swords are better than fists/maces/whatever. Sometimes double fists will be better than double swords. Badge fists and s2 swords are example here. Swords are always better if you compare similiar swords and fists (like s2 swords and fists). Badge fists are equal to s3 swords (swords are better, but those fists are still close to swords).
In spreadsheet make sure you have good spec (5 points in fist specialization, not 0).
There is wrong thinking that every swords are better than fists/maces/whatever. Sometimes double fists will be better than double swords. Badge fists and s2 swords are example here. Swords are always better if you compare similiar swords and fists (like s2 swords and fists). Badge fists are equal to s3 swords (swords are better, but those fists are still close to swords).
In spreadsheet make sure you have good spec (5 points in fist specialization, not 0).
...now that I'm thinking about it, they might actually be close.
The off-hands are both 1.5 Speed so that won't make a difference.
With the little amount of haste you have I don't think the Sword Spec bonus would outshine the 5% crit from fists.
And since the Badge Fists have haste on them thats more in their favor...
Hm...I could however see S2 being better if the Rogue had a ton of haste rating. The faster attacks means more chance for Sword Spec to proc and thus more damage.(One of the reasons Latro's was so good back in the day, 1.4 Speed on a Sword? Yes please)
I dunno, but I'm 90% sure with the OPs gear and with a proper combat spec that the Badge Fists would be better than the S2 swords.
EDIT: Also look to see how Badge Fist/S2 Sword would work out for you. That might work pretty well, again not sure how it would compare to straight Badge Fists with your level of gear.
Edited, Aug 12th 2008 5:58am by GodOfMoo
The off-hands are both 1.5 Speed so that won't make a difference.
With the little amount of haste you have I don't think the Sword Spec bonus would outshine the 5% crit from fists.
And since the Badge Fists have haste on them thats more in their favor...
Hm...I could however see S2 being better if the Rogue had a ton of haste rating. The faster attacks means more chance for Sword Spec to proc and thus more damage.(One of the reasons Latro's was so good back in the day, 1.4 Speed on a Sword? Yes please)
I dunno, but I'm 90% sure with the OPs gear and with a proper combat spec that the Badge Fists would be better than the S2 swords.
EDIT: Also look to see how Badge Fist/S2 Sword would work out for you. That might work pretty well, again not sure how it would compare to straight Badge Fists with your level of gear.
Edited, Aug 12th 2008 5:58am by GodOfMoo
I currently have S2 swords so it's easy for me to compare the dps on the spreadsheet. Simply switching to the fists and selecting the fists spec instead of sword spec, it comes up as an increase of 27.52 dps for me.
Ok, had a chance to play with the spread sheet and see what I can do. I started with the Rogue Radical sheet, but I have downloaded the RogueCraft sheet (second link in Theo's Comp) and input my data. As of right now, my spec shows a DPS of 1348.17 as Mutilate/Combat and my current gear.
Changing over to Combat Fists and using the badge fists we are up to 1666.21 (23.59% increase)
Switching fists for swords (gear and talents) we come up with 1639.60 (21.62% upgrade from Mutilate, 1.97% less than Fists)
Looks like I won't have to PvP after all (El Yay!!!)
Thanks for the help everyone. Looking forward to our Kara clear and doing some heroics this weekend and blowing the damage meter up next week.
Edited, Aug 12th 2008 10:24am by AtrophyGFour
Changing over to Combat Fists and using the badge fists we are up to 1666.21 (23.59% increase)
Switching fists for swords (gear and talents) we come up with 1639.60 (21.62% upgrade from Mutilate, 1.97% less than Fists)
Looks like I won't have to PvP after all (El Yay!!!)
Thanks for the help everyone. Looking forward to our Kara clear and doing some heroics this weekend and blowing the damage meter up next week.
Edited, Aug 12th 2008 10:24am by AtrophyGFour
Quote:
You have stumped me on this one Theo. I am not sure if you are saying I shouldn't worry about Res because I am going to get pummeled to quickly or if you are saying that I should because CD isn't gonna work unless you have enough.
Honestly, I haven't PvPed since my late 40s when I got a new dagger for my Mutilate respec and I am not familiar with 70 PvP at all. I didn't see any BG specific info in your FAQ, it is pointed mostly at Arena. If my raid gear will do me fine than that is one less thing to spend money on.
I was just looking at it as raid gear is raid gear and PvP gear is for PvP. Wouldn't the Opp set give me a lot more HP and a little more survivability?
Honestly, I haven't PvPed since my late 40s when I got a new dagger for my Mutilate respec and I am not familiar with 70 PvP at all. I didn't see any BG specific info in your FAQ, it is pointed mostly at Arena. If my raid gear will do me fine than that is one less thing to spend money on.
I was just looking at it as raid gear is raid gear and PvP gear is for PvP. Wouldn't the Opp set give me a lot more HP and a little more survivability?
Cheat Death does you little good if you don't have a healer to heal you when it procs.
Not to mention when you go down in BGs you usually die fast enough that it won't matter.
GodOfMoo wrote:
The off-hands are both 1.5 Speed so that won't make a difference.
One more thing. Badge fists have higher dps (103 to be precise).
As I said before: if we have similiar weapons (s2 swords and s2 fists) then obviously swords will be better. But if fists have higher dps and better stats, then they can be better from swords. I read on elitist jerks forum that badge fists are better than s2 swords. I checked spreadsheet (can't tell which one right now :( ) and unbuffed I had higher dps with badge fists than s2 swords. I checked then with raid buffs, and it was similiar (badge fists > s2 swords).
Imho better is get those badges than play in bgs. Do daily heroic, go to kara, do SSO dailys (maybe you will find badges there :)).
Quote:
And since the Badge Fists have haste on them thats more in their favor...
I also said that btw.
Was clarifying to try and not seem as ignorant in the quote...
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Seem being the key word ;p
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Seem being the key word ;p
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