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#1 Aug 06 2008 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
41/20/0 Is really fun! Last night my new little casual guild did ZA and we beat the timer on bear boss. I did 850 DPS on bear with Mutilate combat on my fairly new 70 alt Shoninjai. I was combat swords but I just find it way to boring solo for some reason so I decided to pick up the Mutilater offhand for 45 badges (All I had on that toon since she is new) and give it a try.

Observations:

My white damage is pretty dang good.
Combo point heaven. It's really easy to keep up 5pt rupture and slice and dice. I had so many combo points I even threw in some evicerates becuase rupture timer was so fresh.
On long boss fights and tough trash it's a fun build. On easy trash like Kara sometimes I ended up with wasted combo points becuase the trash died to dang fast. I was getting 1500+ Mutilates on both hands at times with drums up (so 3000+ total) which is fun for big number syndrome. :)
With our bear tank and no salv I was pushing the threat cap a bit a times and did vanish once mid fight to drop agro on bear boss.

Now I know Combat swords will outdamage it a bit. I'm not debating that. But for me even with offhand energy return I was not nearly as efficient with keeping up SnD/R as combat swords with my current gear. I also know 850 DPS is not spectacular for hardcore t5/6 raiders. My hunter can push 1200 but I am bored with him atm. Besides I just like 10 mans becuase 25 mans are to slow and take to much set up time for my pref.

So if your a casual player like me and you want a viable 10 man build don't be scared to try out combat mutilate. You might find this mysterious thing happens called fun!

Commence flaming about gimping your raid by not being a boring cookie cutter...... :D






#2 Aug 06 2008 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
It would have been more dead if you were combat swords.
#3 Aug 06 2008 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Funny you posted this, I was just working out a full raid spec for mutilate in WOTLK. I figured I'd let it slip when I noticed this thread...

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efoeMoiMohbsZ0eV0bEz0z

Seems pretty interesting to me. I just lack points, as usual... With just 11 more points you could pick Find Weakness, Opportunity and 2/2 Weapon Expertise.

It's crit heavy, but that's good in this case I reckon. Malice, Dagger spec and Turn The Tables put you on a whooping 16% crit pretty much permanent. Coupled with my rogue's gear this would be 33%, in season 1. I can see it moving near 50% in bad-*** gear O_o. Deadly Brew allows you to fight with 2X instant poison on your daggers and with such a high crit rating, focused attacks will see it's worth. Seeing combat's only getting Unfair Advantage and Prey On The Weak for raiding, I wonder if this could throw up some competition...

Edited, Aug 6th 2008 10:51pm by Mozared
#4 Aug 06 2008 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
For combat mutilate, yes you do more as combat swords and, usually, combat fist/sword, mace/sword, but I like specing combat mutilate because that way I don't have to respec to do BG's.

Also on a side note, for help on combat mutilate rotations you can watch http://roguerogue.com/?p=39, shows the best rotations on combat mutilate.
#5 Aug 06 2008 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
Funny you posted this, I was just working out a full raid spec for mutilate in WOTLK. I figured I'd let it slip when I noticed this thread...

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efoeMoiMohbsZ0eV0bEz0z

Seems pretty interesting to me. I just lack points, as usual... With just 11 more points you could pick Find Weakness, Opportunity and 2/2 Weapon Expertise.

It's crit heavy, but that's good in this case I reckon. Malice, Dagger spec and Turn The Tables put you on a whooping 16% crit pretty much permanent. Coupled with my rogue's gear this would be 33%, in season 1. I can see it moving near 50% in bad-*** gear O_o. Deadly Brew allows you to fight with 2X instant poison on your daggers and with such a high crit rating, focused attacks will see it's worth. Seeing combat's only getting Unfair Advantage and Prey On The Weak for raiding, I wonder if this could throw up some competition...

Edited, Aug 6th 2008 10:51pm by Mozared

No Find Weakness, no Imp Poisons, etc = fail.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoeLoiMoA0oZ0eV0bEz0z

Those would be my changes, given your build. A 20% chance to proc IP and thus DP rather than FF and 2% damage is a rather large DPS increase, and Find Weakness versus Infectious Poisons/Focused Attacks is also quite a large DPS bump upwards.

It would still remain to be seen if BF/WEx/Dagger Spec will be more than a few more points in Assassination, though.
#6 Aug 07 2008 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
Turn the tables only gives eviscerate and envenom bonus crit (combo moves =/= combo point generating moves). I can't see how it's better than focused attacks, expertise or opportunity.
#7 Aug 07 2008 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
Cool link imano. That guy was busting 4500+ mutilates. That looked fun. I'm sure as my gear improves on this alt I will be able to push this spec up over the 1000's in DPS. I took it into BG's the first time last night and the burst is also very fun. ShS is definitly easier to play in some ways.

I tend to respec every few weeks or just go play another alt. I like variety.

Edited, Aug 7th 2008 7:32am by Shojindo
#8 Aug 07 2008 at 7:12 AM Rating: Default
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I didn't even notice FF was still in there... I set it up as a PvP spec first and then turned it into raiding - must've missed some talents (before the edit it also still had 2/3 imp gouge). Either way, yes, imp poisons above FF is fairly logical. Kavekk's right as well... That's a shame.
#9 Aug 07 2008 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Turn the tables only gives eviscerate and envenom bonus crit (combo moves =/= combo point generating moves). I can't see how it's better than focused attacks, expertise or opportunity.

You may be right, of course, but I read it as any yellow attack. It's too bad that it's so hard to test that talent or I would.
#10 Aug 08 2008 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
I'm pretty sure actually that combo moves are moves that aren't finishing moves, aren't they? I.e. SS, hemo, BS, mutilate. so not evisc nor envenom.

If you look at this: http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_abilities

There's basically three types of rogue moves(besides utility moves, labeled subtlety here, oh and some labeled combat): opening moves, combo moves, and finishing moves. I'd assume turn the tables increases crit chance for any of those combo moves.


Edited, Aug 8th 2008 4:27pm by digitalcraft
#11 Aug 08 2008 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm... I'm going to assume it does. It's obviously a raid talent (it even mentions the word), and I suppose Blizzard will realize envenom and eviscerate suck in that field of play.
#12 Aug 08 2008 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
Heh, good point, it would suck if they gave a talent that's only for group use that only works for abilities nobody uses in groups.
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