Two quick questions about weapon comparisons....
I am no theorycraft-ist for sure. I have a hard time knowing what the tradeoffs are for stats that corrolate but aren't the same (i.e 25 agility vs 20 AP...etc)
My questions are on two specific weapons...
I am BM and this is for PVE/Heroics/Kara
Crystalforge Waraxe (80 AP, 27 crit, 50 stam) vs Terok's Quill (54 agi 34 stam)
...and
Valanos Bow (10 int, 22 AP, 10 critical strike, 66.4dps) vs. Truestrike Xbow (10 agi, 12 stam, 6 int, 20 AP, 66.3dps)
Those who do more number crunching than I do.....which would you choose?
Many thanks!
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Truestrike would be better from BM if I am not mistaken?
A list of the most important stat conversions to a level 70 hunter:
1 Agility = 1 Attack Power
14 Ranged Attack Power = 1 DPS
40 Agility = +1% Critical Hit
22 Critical Strike Rating = 1% crit
16 hit rating (rounded from 15.77) = 1% chance to hit
Waraxe = 80 AP and 1.2% crit
Quill = 54 AP and 1.35% crit
I'd go with the waraxe... And in fact, when I was at that level, I did use it until I got revered with Honor Hold (Thrallmar if Horde) to get the rep weapon... Murmur hated me.
As for the ranged weapons
The stats are pretty comparable, however there is one thing that hunters have to pay very close attention to with their ranged weapons (for now), and that's attack speed.
A BM hunter wants his/her autoshot speed as close to 1.5 as possible, and so the closer we get to a 2.4 speed weapon, the tighter the 1:1 shot rotation we'll have.
Valanos' has a speed of 2.8
Trustrike has a speed of 2.6
And yes, that .2 second difference DOES make a difference. After just 5 seconds, the 2.6 speed weapon will get in a whole extra shot in. Over a minute, that's 12 extra shots, and a TON of extra damage.
Go with the Truestrike Xbow. If you don't get the WolfSlayer from Kara, it'll last you until you can afford to get the 150 badge Crossbow.
1 Agility = 1 Attack Power
14 Ranged Attack Power = 1 DPS
40 Agility = +1% Critical Hit
22 Critical Strike Rating = 1% crit
16 hit rating (rounded from 15.77) = 1% chance to hit
Waraxe = 80 AP and 1.2% crit
Quill = 54 AP and 1.35% crit
I'd go with the waraxe... And in fact, when I was at that level, I did use it until I got revered with Honor Hold (Thrallmar if Horde) to get the rep weapon... Murmur hated me.
As for the ranged weapons
The stats are pretty comparable, however there is one thing that hunters have to pay very close attention to with their ranged weapons (for now), and that's attack speed.
A BM hunter wants his/her autoshot speed as close to 1.5 as possible, and so the closer we get to a 2.4 speed weapon, the tighter the 1:1 shot rotation we'll have.
Valanos' has a speed of 2.8
Trustrike has a speed of 2.6
And yes, that .2 second difference DOES make a difference. After just 5 seconds, the 2.6 speed weapon will get in a whole extra shot in. Over a minute, that's 12 extra shots, and a TON of extra damage.
Go with the Truestrike Xbow. If you don't get the WolfSlayer from Kara, it'll last you until you can afford to get the 150 badge Crossbow.
Scholar
31 posts
Midnight -
that was absolutely the type of answer I was looking for - thank you for your time and patience to explain that to me!
that was absolutely the type of answer I was looking for - thank you for your time and patience to explain that to me!
This is a bit off topic but still falls in the category of Weapon Choice Advice. I get the math. The post up top is great. My question is weapon type at higher levels.
I am only lvl 38 right now so I have a long time to go ponder and learn a lot but there are 2 things I am pretty curious about.
I am a dwarf MM hunter and I currently use guns. I do this because of the racial gun bonus, it just makes sense. I'm pretty interested in doing just about everything I can in this game, but BGs, Arenas, and overall PvP are my main curiosities. Talking to a couple of raiding guildmates as well as looking up weapons here on alla, I was advised that bows (and only bows) were the way to go when you get up there. I noticed that the top gun and crossbow match most bows, but there are 2 bows that SEEM leaps and bounds above the rest of the weapons.
1) Are these bows necessary to be considered a competent hunter?
2) Are there factors I am overlooking that make these bows not so uber?
(I lied, I have more questtions)
3) Any talk/rumors/info on them making more powerful Xbows and guns in WotLK?
I thank you all for your time and advice in advance.
Edited, Aug 5th 2008 3:04pm by Gikkers
I am only lvl 38 right now so I have a long time to go ponder and learn a lot but there are 2 things I am pretty curious about.
I am a dwarf MM hunter and I currently use guns. I do this because of the racial gun bonus, it just makes sense. I'm pretty interested in doing just about everything I can in this game, but BGs, Arenas, and overall PvP are my main curiosities. Talking to a couple of raiding guildmates as well as looking up weapons here on alla, I was advised that bows (and only bows) were the way to go when you get up there. I noticed that the top gun and crossbow match most bows, but there are 2 bows that SEEM leaps and bounds above the rest of the weapons.
1) Are these bows necessary to be considered a competent hunter?
2) Are there factors I am overlooking that make these bows not so uber?
(I lied, I have more questtions)
3) Any talk/rumors/info on them making more powerful Xbows and guns in WotLK?
I thank you all for your time and advice in advance.
Edited, Aug 5th 2008 3:04pm by Gikkers
the best thing to do is to download and use Cheeky's spreadsheet. Everyone's gear combination is different and to really know whats best for you is to use the spreadsheet. It is overwhelming at first, but once you start to use it, you realize it is a pretty basic spreadsheet application. If you need help feel free to post on the forums and ask.
so to ask another weapon question, why is the honor hold/thrallmar rep weapon a better choice over terrok or the crystal axe?
Thank you Zebug. I'm going to draw the conclusion then that guns are feasible for end game events? Thanks again.
Cheeky's learn it, love it, take it out to dinner, maybe get it drunk and get lucky.
My current DPS: 899.47 with Jeweled Halberd
Swaping out for Crystalforged War Axe gives me 900.95
Swapping out for Terrokk's Quill gives me 896.52 DPS
Swapping out for Hellforged Halberd brings me up to 912.25 because I am still not hit capped
If you are hit capped, maybe one of the others would be better, but like I said, it depends so much on your personal gear combination that I'm not sure if generalized statement on what item is better can truely be answered.
oh and bows/guns/xbows are pretty much interchangeable. They are all just as viable as the other. Sure you get a little bonus to guns since you are a dwarf but if a bow comes available that is better than a gun for you, then use it. Make sure you train all of your weapon skills, you don't have to keep them leveled up but at least be able to equip the weapon.
Edited, Aug 5th 2008 12:15pm by zebug
My current DPS: 899.47 with Jeweled Halberd
Swaping out for Crystalforged War Axe gives me 900.95
Swapping out for Terrokk's Quill gives me 896.52 DPS
Swapping out for Hellforged Halberd brings me up to 912.25 because I am still not hit capped
If you are hit capped, maybe one of the others would be better, but like I said, it depends so much on your personal gear combination that I'm not sure if generalized statement on what item is better can truely be answered.
oh and bows/guns/xbows are pretty much interchangeable. They are all just as viable as the other. Sure you get a little bonus to guns since you are a dwarf but if a bow comes available that is better than a gun for you, then use it. Make sure you train all of your weapon skills, you don't have to keep them leveled up but at least be able to equip the weapon.
Edited, Aug 5th 2008 12:15pm by zebug
The spreadsheet is only really usable for lvl 70 hunters, which is great for the OP but doesn't really answer the question for Gikkers. Honestly the top stuff in the game will only be seen by very few. Fortunately one of the better options is available to all fairly well geared hunters. It is the crossbow of relentless strikes 150 badges of justice. It is ugly as hell, your guildies will tease you, but you will rule the dps charts with the rainbow chicken of doom(so many names for it - none flattering). There are some pretty good guns available to most, but none of them will compete with xbow even with your racial. As a matter of fact you should really not be concerned with your racial at all and use the highest DPS weapon available to you, bow, gun, or xbow. Buy a new one off of the AH every couple of levels (and nothing else).
To the OP, get cheeky's, it is worth it. But, for basic choices like you described, use the itemization that is perfectly outlined by Midnight PLUS remember Hit as Zebug said, which is a huge boost until you get 142 hit. If you take both of these into account you need no spreadsheet to realize how much better the halberd is over the other 2 weapons you described. It is actually better than the sonic spear for DPS, if you don't need the stam, which you shouldn't because you should have 2 pieces of S2 gear (helm and shoulders)and maybe up to 5 (bracers, belt, boots). The only weapon that is available to you that is better than sonic spear or hellforged halberd is the vengeful gladiator's waraxe. I finally broke down and am doing my 3-4 weeks of arena now. You will get this axe in 4 weeks even if you lose every game. No excuse not to have it and I am an idiot for not listening to the MANY very smart hunter posters on this site sooner.
Sorry for the wall of text, bored at work.
Edited, Aug 5th 2008 12:31pm by Sweathog
To the OP, get cheeky's, it is worth it. But, for basic choices like you described, use the itemization that is perfectly outlined by Midnight PLUS remember Hit as Zebug said, which is a huge boost until you get 142 hit. If you take both of these into account you need no spreadsheet to realize how much better the halberd is over the other 2 weapons you described. It is actually better than the sonic spear for DPS, if you don't need the stam, which you shouldn't because you should have 2 pieces of S2 gear (helm and shoulders)and maybe up to 5 (bracers, belt, boots). The only weapon that is available to you that is better than sonic spear or hellforged halberd is the vengeful gladiator's waraxe. I finally broke down and am doing my 3-4 weeks of arena now. You will get this axe in 4 weeks even if you lose every game. No excuse not to have it and I am an idiot for not listening to the MANY very smart hunter posters on this site sooner.
Sorry for the wall of text, bored at work.
Edited, Aug 5th 2008 12:31pm by Sweathog
@ Gikkers: best thing you can do is get all 3 skills.
You'll want to take the 1% critbonus into consideration, but even with that there can very well be crossbows or bows out there that will do a better job.
Until lvl 62 at least, just go with what gives you the most dps.
(a.k.a. a bow with 5 more dps will probably outperform a gun with less dps, it will just require a bit of thinking and testing.)
You'll want to take the 1% critbonus into consideration, but even with that there can very well be crossbows or bows out there that will do a better job.
Until lvl 62 at least, just go with what gives you the most dps.
(a.k.a. a bow with 5 more dps will probably outperform a gun with less dps, it will just require a bit of thinking and testing.)
Aethien said it much better:P
I wouldn't waste a bunch of time testing DPS at lvl 38 though. Level up and buy the cheapest weapon with a significant DPS increase every few levels (I am only advocating ranged weapons from the AH) which was, on my server, pretty much only bows (not sure if there are more green bows at that lvl range).
I wouldn't waste a bunch of time testing DPS at lvl 38 though. Level up and buy the cheapest weapon with a significant DPS increase every few levels (I am only advocating ranged weapons from the AH) which was, on my server, pretty much only bows (not sure if there are more green bows at that lvl range).
trollover wrote:
so to ask another weapon question, why is the honor hold/thrallmar rep weapon a better choice over terrok or the crystal axe?
Well. I already posted why the Quill is better than the axe, but going from the axe to the halberd you get:
-.5% crit
+48 AP
+19 hit
Massive increase to AP aside, up until you're hitcapped, hit rating is the most efficient way to increase your DPS. 16 hit = +1% chance to hit, which is a 1% increase in DPS. So if you're doing 500 DPS with 0 hit against an equal-level target, you'll do 505 DPS against that same target with 16 hit. It takes ~12 Agi to equal 1 DPS.
Even though you end up losing .5% DPS from the crit loss, with that Halberd, you're gaining over 1% chance to hit- and you can't crit what you can't hit :)
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