PvPFollow

So I broke down and decided after all this time that, even though I hate the atmosphere around it, I would PvP for some gear. I did some BG grinding for decent weapons before, so I knew what to expect for the most part, but there's still some areas that I struggle with. Now, I know my gear is part of the issue, but I also know it's not the whole issue: skill > gear. Most classes I have found some ways to beat, even when they outgear me some, but I am really having trouble with Rogues in particular. Right now it's just *poke, poke, poke, dead Shaman*. Is there anything I can do to take out a Rogue who gets the jump on me? Or is that pretty much a death sentence?

Also, what can I do to help prevent getting jumped by Rogues: anything? Magma Totem only does so much :( btw I'm a Draenei Shaman.

Thanks for any input, and feel free to leave comments or a link to some other comments on fighting other classes. Can always get better :)

He's Enhancement.

Yea, in short...the odds are your toast.

You "best" chances against Rogues, rely on many luck factors rather than "strat".

First of all lets assume you knew a rogue was inc, or at least you knew one was in the area. Drop a full 4 elem spread of magma tot (rank 1...and keep this down as much as possible), Nat. Resist, Poison Cleanse, and Earth Bind. With "luck" this might pull a rogue stupid enough to attack with all of this down, AND they are brought outta stealth before they had a chance to get into melee range against you. Next, FS and FlS as much as you can, getting in as much "uncontested" dmg, while kiting them around the Earth Bind. Chances are they "will" get into melee range eventually, which pray a WF crits on them quick, before they get into the stun game with you, as your shocks more than likely haven't done enough to kill them yet. Basically, hope you had a head start in dmg, by the time you got into melee range...as they are in their element and have more tools to use against you in melee, even tho melee range is the enh obvious forte', but ours relys on luck more so.

Thats in a perfect world.

Odds are, as you know...it happens more like "stun, unstealth, stab stab stab...dead". In which case, your only saving factor is, pray a healer was in close enough range to help heal you thru it, or hope you have enough stam on your gear to be able to survive their onslaught to the point they spent all their energy, and can't do abilities til the get it back. At which case, then its a matter of you "trying" to get enough distance to either heal up, or try to answer back with a lucky shot and kill them before they have a chance to get energy. Course they can always vanish, or shadow step, so its not like they dont have backup plans if the first attempt didn't finish you off.

Only classes I can figuer that have "better" odds against rogues are SL/SL locks, Arm's wars, Pally's and Hunters (assuming they had a trap down first). But we're not one of them. Just pray for stupid rogues that bought their account or something...against one that has half a head of knowing what they are doing...your dead.

You're counting more on the Rogue being borderline retarded to get knocked out of stealth by a Magma Totem than "luck". That aside, any PvP Rogue that has Imp. Sap (see also: all of them) can actually Sap you outside of the range of a Magma Totem even if you're standing right on top of it.


This, again, is just wishful thinking of, as you went on to put it "a perfect world". Rogues just have too many tools as such that you can not kite them. Pretty much the only way to beat a Rogue as an Enhancement Shaman requires one (or more) of three things. One, the Rogue is already out of stealth, which is going to require another person. Two, you have a healer so you're not at 50-75% life by the time he finishes his initial stunlock routine. (If you trinket out of it, by the way, he'll just Blind you, restealth, and repeat the whole process.) And three, don't bother wasting time trying to kite him when your only hope is to win a damage race. The one area an Enhancement Shaman can trump a Rogue is raw damage. Our DW WF on their leather is going to kill them a hell of a lot faster than their everything is going to kill us in our mail if we're going toe-to-toe.

Unfortunately, the whole Rogues-are-the-best-one-on-one-class-thing still stands, and pretty damn hard when it's an Enhancement Shaman. Perfect world or not, to beat a Rogue you really need another person either beating on him, getting beat on so you can get at him, or healing you.


While no one's undermining skill, understand that much like Warriors, for Shaman gear is a lot more of the equation than it is for most classes. Like Warriors, we are an extremely gear-dependant class, we end up soaking most of the DPS directed at us, and there are very few ways to make up for a lack of gear with skill. To continue the comparison, again, a good Enhancement Shaman is also like a good Warrior in that there's honestly just not a lot for you to do even once you are "skilled". You Purge buffs, interrupt spells, do your best to keep an opponent snared, and other than that your job is pretty much just to stand there and wail on people. The only hard part is figuring out what to spec, what totems to lay, and when to blow your (only) two cooldowns. The line between an "average" and "good" Enhancement Shaman is pretty much blurred by gear. You're only going to notice a difference when you're up against a "great" Enhancement Shaman.


Without going into fine detail and detailing every possible situation where any one totem is going to be useful, that's pretty much it. In general the "buff" totems aren't really going to do you much good in PvP, so the "function" totems are the only ones you really need to be concerned with.

Edited, Aug 1st 2008 7:19am by Gaudion

yeah i hate pvp on my shaman against rogues...at least my priest has his scream i can spam and hope to get off between stuns (like that ever happens)

You can't equip a shield while stunned though right? Or can you and I've just never tried it before? That's great to keep in mind and I'll work on getting one, but it would only work when I'm not getting jumped.

Ozone, you hit the nail on the head (just about). I've cut out all the "trying" though. If I get ambushed by a Rogue and I'm alone, I just go grab a soda while I wait for the spirit rez.

But my gear, yeah it's not that great at the moment. Bought my first piece of Merciless, the chest, which was a PvE upgrade as well. Being an alt I haven't worked on his gear as much as my Paly. I was looking at the rep set: is it worth it to buy those sets, even though they offer less damage than my current gear, just so I can have some pieces with resilience on them? Also I have 2 Gladiator's Cleavers from before season 4 came out, but also have the Vanir's fist weapons from Badges. Should I put on the Gladiator's Cleavers for PvP for the extra resilience and stamina, or just be using the superior Vanir's weapons?

Many thanks again :) Especially regarding the noobishness of what I'm after ;)

Yeah, silly me, I forgot you can't ride around with a shield on in PvP.

It's incredibly easy to switch to your OH weapon if you're that worried about rogues.

And yeah, Gaudion, I have zero arena experience on any character.

This strikes me as one of the times it'd be worthwhile to trinket out of CS instead of KS. Throw together a macro that uses your trinket and equips a shield, and if you get jumped by a Rogue without a shield on hit it. You'll have to eat the KS but you won't be sitting in low-armor gear, so you'd be better off.

Ghost Wolf immune to sap?

It's pretty impossible to beat a good rogue unless you outgear him/her but I do find, per someone posting above, that you can surprise a mediocre one who tries to stunlock you by out dpsing them. Usually if I have a moment to breath in the sequence I'll just pop SR, drop a fire nova (for top burst) and spam ss and shocks, putting up magma after FN goes off. The rogue often gets overconfident and doesnt pop evasion, at which point I can often get their health down faster than they get mine. By the time they hit evasion I can shock em to death.

Note this is in 60-69 BGs, so resilience isn't so much of a factor. And, again, it's only against mediocre, cocky rogues. But if you're talking BGs, they're a dime a dozen.

PVP Guide vs Rogues

Log out of Shaman

Log onto Feral Druid

Call your Rogue buddy and have him get on

Team up

Que for bg over and over until you find rogue who ganked your shammy

Go kitty and stealth and follow your rogue buddy around the map until you find rogue

Help Rogue stunlock the **** out of rogue and gank him.

Rinse and repeat until your ego has recovered.

You don't need a rogue with you. Unlike, say, a shaman, a feral can solo a rogue, especially if the druid gets the jump on said rogue. Pounce/mangle/shred/rip/bear/lacerate/trinket out of blind/bash and dispel poison. Makes me want to hunt the little buggers down in a BG right now.