I'm a firm believer in not going in to heroic instances until you're good enough that the rest of the group doesn't have to carry you. I know this concept will be alien to some people but I don't want to be the cause of groups failing.
On my paladin, I had a set list of equipment to get before making the leap and coincidentally I hit revered with all the factions at almost the same time. Now I'm on my rogue and the revered rep minimum has been removed but I'm not certain what the goals are I should be aiming for and whether there's gear I need.
I forget whether I logged out in pvp or pve gear but assuming it's the pve set, the only equipment I know I need to upgrade is my MH weapon, aiming for the Merciless Glad sword, then to get Mongoose on both MH and OH. Having said that I'm at 7500hp and that feels too squishy.
My armory is in my sig - Firecrotch. Oh and before anyone says I've got spell damage on my rings, I'm still working towards 375 enchanting, then I'll put a sensible enchant on.
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Heroics and roguesFollow
I'm glad you brought this topic up, Leodis. I've been checking the threads and stickies, and while there is a ton of useful information regarding PVE dps in general and in raid contexts, I'm yet to find any rogue-specific guides to heroics. Does one exist? I'm thinking in particular about alerting rogues to particularly melee-unfriendly fights, or fights/instances that demand more than just dps (cc, interrupts, specific poisons, that kind of thing).
If there isn't a guide out there on this topic, maybe some of the more experienced/knowledgeable rogues on this forum would be interested in making one? It would be a huge help for newer rogues looking to "make the leap" to the next level. Thanks!
If there isn't a guide out there on this topic, maybe some of the more experienced/knowledgeable rogues on this forum would be interested in making one? It would be a huge help for newer rogues looking to "make the leap" to the next level. Thanks!
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
Quote:
Having said that I'm at 7500hp and that feels too squishy.
The whole idea of playing a rogue is not to get squished. I'd be much more concerned with stats like AP, +hit and crit. Your stats look pretty good for the easier heroics, but there's always room for improvement.
You logged out in your PvP gear, so I can't give you any recommendations for upgrades.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
This is pretty much it. You interrupt any bad spells and CC whatever's marked to it.
Demea wrote:
The whole idea of playing a rogue is not to get squished. I'd be much more concerned with stats like AP, +hit and crit.
This ^
7500hp is fine. Sure, you might *like* to have more health for the bosses that do AoE or other random-target attacks, but your value to the party is all about your DPS. Gearing specifically for more stam will inevitably gimp your DPS, and won't improve your survivability if you get aggro (even trash could still one-shot you). So if you want to upgrade, find upgrades that improve your DPS, not your stam. Bigdaddyjug posted a great pre-Kara gear list, which is mainly non-heroic stuff.
Re: instance guides, there are good guides out there for all the boss fights. They may not be rogue-specific, but it should be pretty obvious which ones are mean to melee DPS. Fire/whirlwind/hellmouth-in-the-floor bad. Don't stand there.
bismarckmajivo wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
This is pretty much it. You interrupt any bad spells and CC whatever's marked to it.
Woah, let's not get crazy.
Kavekk wrote:
bismarckmajivo wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Most upgrading can be handled via Shadowpanther or the spreadsheet.
This is pretty much it. You interrupt any bad spells and CC whatever's marked to it.
Woah, let's not get crazy.
I was a kickbot for my first few heroics or so...
Quote:
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
My eyes have been opened :-) Any chance of getting an equally concise guide to quantum mechanics, latin grammar, or Eastern philosophy? ***** Cliff's notes...
guardenome wrote:
Quote:
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
My eyes have been opened :-) Any chance of getting an equally concise guide to quantum mechanics, latin grammar, or Eastern philosophy? ***** Cliff's notes...
Latin grammar is a possibility, since I took six years of the language.
It would be a wee bit longer than this, though.
My experience, when I was a new 70, which was also my first trips into heroics, was interesting.
First off, you probably know this already, but spec combat and get S2 swords. The weapons do so much for your DPS. My first kara run I had a green and mostly blues and I was 4th DPS overall just out of a bit of luck, skill, and weapons. Ive seen rogues with crappy blue weapons and they will never be able to compete because of how much base weapon damage does for rogue.
Anyways, the timing is much faster, and you have to pay very close attention to omen. I found myself getting at most a 1 second window to get evasion up or pop vanish when I pulled threat. Save blade flurry for a little later in fights, or after all the adds are dead so you can burn 1 target down. We had a druid tank in our guild (ZA T4 with a little T5) and if I used blade flurry too soon I would most certainly pull hate and die. So just be wary.
tldr
If you know how to avoid damage/pulling threat, have good weapons, and are specced right, you'll be fine for heroics.
Edited, Aug 1st 2008 10:52am by EnthalpyTheBurninator
First off, you probably know this already, but spec combat and get S2 swords. The weapons do so much for your DPS. My first kara run I had a green and mostly blues and I was 4th DPS overall just out of a bit of luck, skill, and weapons. Ive seen rogues with crappy blue weapons and they will never be able to compete because of how much base weapon damage does for rogue.
Anyways, the timing is much faster, and you have to pay very close attention to omen. I found myself getting at most a 1 second window to get evasion up or pop vanish when I pulled threat. Save blade flurry for a little later in fights, or after all the adds are dead so you can burn 1 target down. We had a druid tank in our guild (ZA T4 with a little T5) and if I used blade flurry too soon I would most certainly pull hate and die. So just be wary.
tldr
If you know how to avoid damage/pulling threat, have good weapons, and are specced right, you'll be fine for heroics.
Edited, Aug 1st 2008 10:52am by EnthalpyTheBurninator
Heroics are a piece of cake, you'll get the hang of it. I can run H Mech in my sleep...backwards.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
guardenome wrote:
Quote:
You need a guide to heroics?
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Alright.
1) Attack first marked target.
2) Attack second marked target.
3) Attack any target that remains.
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
My eyes have been opened :-) Any chance of getting an equally concise guide to quantum mechanics, latin grammar, or Eastern philosophy? ***** Cliff's notes...
Latin grammar is a possibility, since I took six years of the language.
It would be a wee bit longer than this, though.
Not being an expert on the subject, I'll try anyhow, for quantum mechanics I mean.
1) Learn to multiply matrices well.
2) Learn to do it REALLY well.
3) Seriously, my lecturer can't do it at ALL (he's the lecturer in optics mind you, but a proffesor in physics nontheless, aside, everything in physics requires good knowledge of quantum mechanics).
4) Kill Boss.
Repeat until instance is done, collect loot.
Well, it's not THAT simple, there's the whole deal with Dirac's notation(sp?! Learning quantum physics in hebrew doesn't help spelling in english I'm afraid) and Hilbert's spaces, but I think that I covered the basics well, very well TBH.
Yuval.
2 posts
I have done many heroics with my 70 hunter, but never with my 70 rogue, though I wouldn't mind giving it a shot. I played my rogue in most of the Outlands instances until we got to Auchenai Crypts and then I switched to my hunter, so my gear isn't too bad, but it's certainly not heroic ready. I read through this thread and found some very useful information, except for one detail that I have a question about. As I said, I did many heroics with my hunter so I've noted some of the things that some bosses do that concern me as a combat rogue. Many of them have an AoE attack that knocks my pet out of the fight relatively quickly (Arcane Explosion comes to mind). As a combat rogue, what would be my best defense against such AoE attacks? I have Cloak of Shadows, but it has a cooldown and some bosses spam AoE's. Do I need to get some resist gear (which will likely drop my DPS output)? Just an honest question for those with more experience than I have.
Maybe don't take damage from AoE? Seriously sometimes you can stop dpsing and move back while boss is AoE'ing or get better healer.
I never used resistance gear and I did many heroics. You just don't need resistance gear.
Also get better gear (faction reputation items (but not Opportunist! it's PvP gear not PvE), quest items, normal instances).
I never used resistance gear and I did many heroics. You just don't need resistance gear.
Also get better gear (faction reputation items (but not Opportunist! it's PvP gear not PvE), quest items, normal instances).
Resist...?
Whats that?
Joking aside Theo has it right. Gear for it as if it were a raid. Play it as if it were a raid. Ninja the loot as if it were a raid.
Whats that?
Joking aside Theo has it right. Gear for it as if it were a raid. Play it as if it were a raid. Ninja the loot as if it were a raid.
Belthanus wrote:
As a combat rogue, what would be my best defense against such AoE attacks? I have Cloak of Shadows, but it has a cooldown and some bosses spam AoE's. Do I need to get some resist gear (which will likely drop my DPS output)? Just an honest question for those with more experience than I have.
Your best defense against AoE are high hitpoints. Try to avoid having many high DPS items that have no stamina on them. Or carry a replacement with you. Once you get over 9k hp buffed you will really notice a difference.
Btw, it is funny to come to the same place with a tank with close to 20k hp - you don't even notice the AoE then.
If your healer is worth anything you'll be fine. Watch your health, watch your timing, keep a potion handy (which you shouldn't ever have to use), and you shouldn't have to worry.
The only place AoE is a real worry outside specific bosses is MgT.
2 posts
Much obliged to those who answered my questions. It sounds like I should just jump in with both feet and see where the current takes me. Thanks again!
yea the biggest thing my first few runs through heroics was getting 1 shotted. i had to hold back pretty hardcore, no blade flurry, etc, and be able to hit vanish in the flash of a second.
learn how to not pull aggro, how to control blade flurry, and how to vanish/evasion at a heartbeat and you should be fine.
learn how to not pull aggro, how to control blade flurry, and how to vanish/evasion at a heartbeat and you should be fine.
threat meters are designed for a reason :)
They don't however help if you hit blade flurry and AR and the secondary target decides to smack you.
But - if you have enough HP to survive the first hit, you can use evasion, go on for some time and then vanish.
Very useful trick on those brutes before Gruul.
But - if you have enough HP to survive the first hit, you can use evasion, go on for some time and then vanish.
Very useful trick on those brutes before Gruul.
Blade Flurry is in essence an AoE so you should treat it as such. If your tank doesn't have any agro on the secondary mobs then you should:
A. Not use Blade Flurry
B. Get a better tank
I would classify a Rogue BFing and getting killed the same as a Mage who spams AE and gets killed.
A. Not use Blade Flurry
B. Get a better tank
I would classify a Rogue BFing and getting killed the same as a Mage who spams AE and gets killed.
guardenome wrote:
My eyes have been opened :-) Any chance of getting an equally concise guide to quantum mechanics, latin grammar, or Eastern philosophy? ***** Cliff's notes...
Guide to physics: *whack with a stick* That's all you need to know about physics.
Wytryszek wrote:
They don't however help if you hit blade flurry and AR and the secondary target decides to smack you.
Well... As noted above, we all should have a threat meter and know our ability mechanics. Be sure consecrate is down or that second mob has a nice stack o' sunders. The DPS loss from not using BF every time it's up is nothing compared to the zero DPS you're doing while running back.
Wytryszek wrote:
But - if you have enough HP to survive the first hit, you can use evasion, go on for some time and then vanish.
Very useful trick on those brutes before Gruul.
Very useful trick on those brutes before Gruul.
No offense, but this is not very good advice. Any t4 raiding rogues (gear appropriate) that think they can evasion tank the brutes, even for a second, are fooling themselves, y'all ain't that leet. Besides, stacking enough stam to survive a hit in that gear range would take away from +hit and +agi that you need for raiding. Trust me, it's best to lower your DPS and live than anything else. Hug the butt and don't win the game of Omen. ;)
*edit... fixed typo.
Edited, Aug 18th 2008 11:14am by TherionSaysWhat
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