Is skipping hemorrhage in a Subtlety spec acceptable?Follow

Hemo's energy efficiency is very good. its 10 points less than SS, and even if you wanted to go and dump the 2 talent points into improved SS, its just taking away from vile poisons or lethality, which are both good for a rogue spec.
hemo was buffed from where it was last year, and does more damage. its pretty good in my opinion for pvp.

also, even with initiative, fights last much longer than they used to in PVP. theres no more zomg1shot. a good CP builder is pretty important.
i think hemo is the best CP builder after mutilate. mutilate has it by a long shot still, but hemo is still better than SS and backstab.

btw i hate you for having a boxers mantle (its in your ffxi sig).

Edited, Jul 30th 2008 10:52pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator

No.

Again i'm fairly new to WoW...I really want to go subtlety. Surviving, being in stealth, and being in PVP kind-of fits how I want to roll my rouge. I have to sacrifice some talents for Hemorrhage so I couldn't decide what I wanted to do. Setup looks like a really good talent, but the FAQ says it's not so great. I notice my Rouge dodging quite often, but maybe that changes as I level more.

Anyway this is the build I came up with, i'm not really sure if it's any good or not. Suggestions? 15/4/42

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fbxc0xZ0LZEMcshhosxot

Edited, Jul 31st 2008 4:39pm by Zafire

Criticize the noob, lol. I know, I ask dumb questions...Theres always 'is this spec good' threads, and you're sick of seeing another one, right?

Or you just can't stand improper grammar. I spell like a saint compared to a lot of people on here, so I think you just don't like me. lol.

Well, whatever it is, I hate not understanding games ><!

Edited, Jul 31st 2008 4:51pm by Zafire

Resilience has made 'strong 1-hitter' basically an impossibility. I understand the concept you're going for, but it won't work very well in the way the game currently exists. Basically, you'll open marginally hard, take about 1/6th of their life if you're lucky on a cloth, then get pwnted.

Much more competitive to go for max dps instead of a single burst.

Edited, Jul 31st 2008 2:11pm by digitalcraft

So basically assassination is the only way to go?

Indeed, really, check out the PvP guide. The 3 main ways to go for a rogue are Mutilate (daggers), combat swords or 20/0/41 subtlety. Just read trough the guides, they really should explain everything.

A lot of those people you're referring to don't misspell their own class. And of course I don't like you, you're people. I hate people.

You are only losing two moves that require a main hand dagger and that is backstab and ambush. Backstab is teribad for combo point generation when compared to the energy it costs and ambush is overrated. Ast previously stated, the days of ambush = omgwtfbbqkittensftw are over. You will not make any impact on their health that any other opener does better. Cheap shot stuns, garrote is DOT with a silence...both better options depending on the circumstance.

Mutilate is a fun build and the CP generation is obscene. If you insist on doing daggers, Theo's heavy poison mut is the way to go. Otherwise do LoLstep and get some good maces or fists.

Edit: L2quote

Edited, Aug 1st 2008 4:52pm by AtrophyGFour

QFT.

I have a friend, who's in much the same place as you are, who has insisted against my advice to level his rogue up to 55 with a PvP sub daggers spec. It doesn't matter how many times I tell him that combat is better for leveling, or that shadowstep swords is better for pvp at all levels - at all levels - he refuses to listen. Since he's a friend I rarely press the matter because it's not compulsory for him to be good at the game.

He makes some truly ludicrous arguments, such as when I confronted him with the poor combo point generation of backstab and its general energy inefficiency, he replies "it's only twenty more than sinister strike" and "Stuns don't deal damage" when I tell him to open with a cheap shot. The thing is that the only genuinely convincing argument he's put forward is that he just likes daggers more, which is a much more solid position to take than rambling ignorantly about statistics one doesn't understand, and I'm fine with that. But since he's 55 now I just can't see why he won't respec mutilate.

Mutilate is a very solid dagger build, relying on the heavy burst damage that most dagger lovers claim to enjoy while not being entirely crippled by resilience. It's unorthodox but still formidable in PvP, you exchange a significant chunk of mobility that can be mitigated somewhat with imp. sprint, and in the end it's just plain fun. It's definitely much more fun than sub daggers, which all in all has the following point(s) in its favour;

1) Ambush.

which hasn't had a place on my stealth bar since level 27.

Really. To you, and to all others out there who claim to be speccing horribly because they love daggers; go mutilate. Just do it. Go mutilate. It's not competitive, but you're not looking for competitive, it doesn't suck and it's fun, which more often than not is the foundation of your entire argument. My friend, who I mentioned earlier, uses a build that relies heavily on an ambush crit. Would you like to know how many points he put in Malice?

None. At all. And that tells you all you need to know about my friend. Now, do you want to be the scrub leveling a crit build without a talent that gives crit, or do you want to get half a clue so that you can rise above the phenomenal sh1theap of players who slap talents down like they were playing ******************************************

Mobility.

Mutilate is 41 points in Assassination, so you don't have it in a ShadowStep build anyway. Garrote doesn't require daggers.

Compared to other abilities that fill the same parts of your rotation, Ambush and Backstab cannot compete. In PvE you're far better off opening with Cheap Shot or Garrote. For combo point generation you are far better off with Hemo or Sinister Strike (ShS or Combat, respectively).

ShadowStep is a mobile/survivability/control spec. That's the point of it.


Apart from a couple of dry spells, I don't recall ever having this problem. Actually... I don't recall having to buy but one or two swords while leveling. Nearly all the ones I used were quest rewards (Sword of Omen and Thrash Blade being standouts in my mind) or drops. I really don't know why people say they're hard to find... click this and filter it to your level range.