BTW, back to the talent-trees:
Did anyone else notice, that it isn't really possible to specc 17 points into arcane, without loosing quite some of the nice PvP-viable talnets from frost? Thats something I really hate...Its barely possible to get any kind of 51/x build, without sacrificing soo much in´the main-tree, that its almost not worth putting the other points anywhere else. I don't get it... Frost is mainly for PvP and a 17/0/44 specc is nearly required to play PvP well, so why do they put all those potentially damage enhancing talents in there if they are not thought for PvP, since you have to drop em for silence?
Thats retarded, so we have talents, that will barely ever be skilled, since we just have to use a different specc for PvE anyways, or drop them for better talents elsewhere. Other classes show it impressively. Compareable talents use 1 point instead of 5, and thats what should happen to the mage-trees also imo, so you can specc for everything you really need for PvP if you specc in a pvp build.
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Maybe you're right. But you'll have to keep in mind that at the moment Mages are pretty much the only class who could do a 0/30/31 spec and still be accepted as a normal mage rather than being yelled at and called a noob.
Groarr wrote:
Quote:
Obviously lol, frost was always the Pvp tree anyway :P But fire could be used in BGs and would dominate more than frost.I just wish they could make fire and frost the pvp trees but each with different play styles but equal, and arcane tree for raiding and pve. But i know its too late now :P
Well pre-tbc fire was for PvP and later fire-based elemental speccs tbh.
But anyways, thats what I thought too. In solo-PvP the changes to fire, especially to BW and DB, plus the slightly increased critchance might be a fun change to deep frost PvP, but as it is now, It won't take over in arena by the looks of it. With living bomb to detect rogues and the PvP orientated changes to fire it might even be decent in solo PvP. Also seeing how some parts of BG PvP are just not at all based ona fight player vs player, tinking about the roflmao-effect of 0/51/20 and a group of unprepared allies waiting at galv to start.
Past MC/BWL, deep fire + arcane(meditation) was pretty nice for DPS. Especially considering rolling ignites.
Mozared wrote:
Maybe you're right. But you'll have to keep in mind that at the moment Mages are pretty much the only class who could do a 0/30/31 spec and still be accepted as a normal mage rather than being yelled at and called a noob.
Rogues have a 30/0/31 Ashtongue build that revolves around the Ashtongue trinket that rogues get at Exalted.
Quote:
Maybe you're right. But you'll have to keep in mind that at the moment Mages are pretty much the only class who could do a 0/30/31 spec and still be accepted as a normal mage rather than being yelled at and called a noob.
Well, you can run around with that specc in a city without being called a noob, but try to get a raid-guild with that specc, or a decent arena team, then you can see, how free we are to choose our build.
Official talent calculators got changed. More significant changes to the Frost tree, and a nerf to Fiery Payback (finally).
Biggest change in my mind is to Winter's Chill. Now 3 points, 33/66/100% buff application, affects Fire, Frost and Arcane crit chance!
I'm starting to see where this is going. Rather than having stacked fire or frost mages, they want diversity, so you might see a frost mage and either a deep Arcane/shallow Fire or an Elemental Fire spec in a raid. That way you get both the 10% damage increase from Imp Scorch and the 10% crit increase from Winter's Chill, and everyone is happy.
Fiery payback now puts a 2.5/5 sec CD on Pyro after the first cast. Still not enough, as I can open with Pyro, Fireball, FN, Fireball, Pyro to finish. That's a dirty amount of damage in just over 10 seconds.
Oh, and they took Arcane Blast out of the proc spells for MBAM. Don't see how that's viable anymore. Deep Arcane mages are going to spam AB, no? Why make it proc off of something that you don't use?
Edited, Aug 4th 2008 12:15pm by TheEngine
Biggest change in my mind is to Winter's Chill. Now 3 points, 33/66/100% buff application, affects Fire, Frost and Arcane crit chance!
I'm starting to see where this is going. Rather than having stacked fire or frost mages, they want diversity, so you might see a frost mage and either a deep Arcane/shallow Fire or an Elemental Fire spec in a raid. That way you get both the 10% damage increase from Imp Scorch and the 10% crit increase from Winter's Chill, and everyone is happy.
Fiery payback now puts a 2.5/5 sec CD on Pyro after the first cast. Still not enough, as I can open with Pyro, Fireball, FN, Fireball, Pyro to finish. That's a dirty amount of damage in just over 10 seconds.
Oh, and they took Arcane Blast out of the proc spells for MBAM. Don't see how that's viable anymore. Deep Arcane mages are going to spam AB, no? Why make it proc off of something that you don't use?
Edited, Aug 4th 2008 12:15pm by TheEngine
Wow, this thread got a little bit karma bombed.
Noticed that too, seems mostly on the second page though for whatever reason. meh.
Quote:
Wow, this thread got a little bit karma bombed.
It's a warlock conspiracy in my opinion...
The latest iteration of talents looks much more promising. I especially like the new winter's chill. I haven't got around to working out a talent buidl yet as I imagine they'll still change quite a lot, but at least there seem to be some more raid useful stuff in there now (I'm sure our resident boomkin will enjoy the new WB too).
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Wow, this thread got a little bit karma bombed.
noticed that too, not sure why it happened. show yourself, scoundrel!
i think the mage still has some serious problems, especially the fire tree. fire mages need enough single-target dps to get them raid invites. AoE is not a good thing to push too much. sure, it's nice to have, but not defining. if you have an AoE heavy encounter, you bring more mages/locks instead of rogues, you don't count on someone being specced for AoE. and fire mages still do most of their AoE damage from point black with an arcane spell. doubly wrong, imo.
i hope mages won't get forced into a tri-spec raid debuff ****** role (by getting focus magic, imp scorch and winter's chill). therefore, i think focus magic should be improved and moved deeper into the tree (lower mana cost, more/no charges); scorch too.
and wtf is up with moving ele precision to tier 2? forcing fire into elementalist?
something i got from EJ is also our shields. mage armor is only good for arcane mages and now pvp, with the new debuff halving. molten armor is mixed; the -crit is a pvp talent and the damage on hit is actively rubbish for pve. and frost armor is useless for pve, it is purely pvp.
warlocks get a pure damage pve shield and a pure pvp shield in wotlk. mages need something new too.
i think we have some new skills coming. hunters get 4 (bear trap, kill shot and 2 more announced), we have what? frostfire bolt. needs more, imo. like a new shield and a spammable fire AoE spell :)
what do you all think of this elementalist frostfire bolt build?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents2.html?tal=0000000000000000000000000000023050020123033310531203013502035030310030000000000000000
max increase to frost and fire damage, crit chance and crit bonus (both currently apply to FFB), max threat reduction and min mana costs. i left out all the AoE talents, including living bomb (although that sounds really fun!). for more AoE ability, drop 2 each in piercing ice and frost channeling to get world in flames and living bomb. like so:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents2.html?tal=0000000000000000000000000000023050320123033310531203013512035030110010000000000000000
My friend who has been playing since the start of WoW was telling me the other day that locks use to suck pre-BC...and that they buffed them up it this true??
xxmnemosynexx wrote:
My friend who has been playing since the start of WoW was telling me the other day that locks use to suck pre-BC...and that they buffed them up it this true??
you mean the time when deathcoil was a 31 point talent? Before warlock got reworked they were terrible, fear was awesome as a pvp CC but other than that not a lot of things went well for warlocks.
Does anyone have confirmed info on how hot streak is working? Does it mean, that fire aoe will have a 100% critchance now?
I mean, you do a dragon's breath, and score 3 crits with it, then your instant flamstrike has 100% critchance and therefore will score at least 3 crist, meaning the following blastwave will do too, as well as the following inszant flamestrike?
Hey, I could be wrong, but it does sound a bit op to me, that mages can now have 4 instant aoe nukes with high damage, and even higher critdamage, 3 of which will crit for sure... Thats sure sounds like extinction of whole groups of unattentive players by a single mage... they won't get out of snare, stun and disorient before they drop dead, and several of them can be expected to drop after the mage has died, taking living bomb and all the ignites /flamestrike aoe into account :/
I mean, you do a dragon's breath, and score 3 crits with it, then your instant flamstrike has 100% critchance and therefore will score at least 3 crist, meaning the following blastwave will do too, as well as the following inszant flamestrike?
Hey, I could be wrong, but it does sound a bit op to me, that mages can now have 4 instant aoe nukes with high damage, and even higher critdamage, 3 of which will crit for sure... Thats sure sounds like extinction of whole groups of unattentive players by a single mage... they won't get out of snare, stun and disorient before they drop dead, and several of them can be expected to drop after the mage has died, taking living bomb and all the ignites /flamestrike aoe into account :/
I believe that is correct, imagine it working like popping combustion without critting on a bunch of mobs and having 10 charges filled up (effectively 100% chance to crit) and then using a spell. Just be careful, with all of that critting our aggro will be through the roof.
Groarr wrote:
Does anyone have confirmed info on how hot streak is working? Does it mean, that fire aoe will have a 100% critchance now?
I mean, you do a dragon's breath, and score 3 crits with it, then your instant flamstrike has 100% critchance and therefore will score at least 3 crist, meaning the following blastwave will do too, as well as the following inszant flamestrike?
Hey, I could be wrong, but it does sound a bit op to me, that mages can now have 4 instant aoe nukes with high damage, and even higher critdamage, 3 of which will crit for sure... Thats sure sounds like extinction of whole groups of unattentive players by a single mage... they won't get out of snare, stun and disorient before they drop dead, and several of them can be expected to drop after the mage has died, taking living bomb and all the ignites /flamestrike aoe into account :/
I mean, you do a dragon's breath, and score 3 crits with it, then your instant flamstrike has 100% critchance and therefore will score at least 3 crist, meaning the following blastwave will do too, as well as the following inszant flamestrike?
Hey, I could be wrong, but it does sound a bit op to me, that mages can now have 4 instant aoe nukes with high damage, and even higher critdamage, 3 of which will crit for sure... Thats sure sounds like extinction of whole groups of unattentive players by a single mage... they won't get out of snare, stun and disorient before they drop dead, and several of them can be expected to drop after the mage has died, taking living bomb and all the ignites /flamestrike aoe into account :/
No. I see what you're getting at, and I thought it's like that too at first. But it works like this:
You crit 3 times -> Hot Streak buff -> Crit -> Buff drops.
The Hot Streak crit can be the first of a new string so you can exploit it a bit by casting Fireblast while the Fireball is in mid-air to get two crits towards your next Hot Streak. Some are theorycrafting about all-crit Fireball-Scorch-Fireblast rotations, but I'm not sure if that works.
In AoE, it works like this:
It only works if the crits that happen in the same cast are also in sequence in the combat log. So if you hit 4 mobs and in the log it's crit, crit, hit, crit, no dice; even if it was from the same spell.
The buff can come up and be consumed within one cast. So your AoE could crit 3 mobs in sequence in the log, crit the fourth and you never see the buff.
If, and only if, you crit the last three mobs (in the combat log) with your AoE spell, the buff will stay up, hence your next cast will be a crit. You can use an AoE spell, but due to the mechanics above, it will only stay perpetual if you are hitting a multiple of 3 mobs/players. Otherwise the buff will get consumed within the second AoE spell and you just end up with a started Hot Streak.
wow, if hot streak works like that, then honestly I cannot see much use for it. Its a waste of talent points imo. Yeah, great, If I dunno where to put my points I will happily take it, but seriously, left aside the time you have combustion up, where will you get 3 crits in a row with a relatively large chance not to crit? your spells can be resisted, or you actually use the wrong spell, and get a fireblast crit. So many things can happen to make this talent worse, that I really doubt it will work out that well...
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