Groarr wrote:
No talents or so to increase mana-friendlyness of arcane blast?
Student of the Mind combined with what I expect to be a huge influx of spirit on gear similar to the great stamina debacle of TBC.
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Student of the Mind combined with what I expect to be a huge influx of spirit on gear similar to the great stamina debacle of TBC.
So basically I want to be deep fire and have my health below 35% all the time?
Awesome.
Awesome.
Groarr wrote:
Am I totally mistaken, or will it be kinda required to specc for some arcane points for huge utility? and is this debuff stacking? otherwise... WTB 10 mages for 25 mans ^^
I think deep freeze looks damned sexy now... It IS a talent to shatter combo with. 1.5 secs cast, even sexier with IV and 1319-1531 dmg, followed by icelance as shattercombo and a frostbolt on the still stunned target and a fireblast, so if its possible to get that spell off it should cause serious facemelting...
Fiery payback is kinda @#%^ed up, but did you see firestarter? with 0/51/20 elemental specc thats also kinda awsome... nova->DB->BW->instant lamestrike. Though blizz seems again undecided weather or not fire is a single target tree, for aoe, or even for Pvp... althugh I can see the huge aoe buffs.
One thing that concerns me though is the damage absorbed by Icebarrier... either the average damage we're up against won't be soooo huge, and blizz just wants to toss us a cookie in PvP, or we'll be facing hard times... then most of our lame-scaling aoe spells along with deep freeeze and so on will be completely insufficient to keep up with the hp and dps of other classes...
Arcane tree synergy is also kinda weird... so I need to absorb dmg with mana shield to get 300 SD for like 4000 mana loss? and I cannot spam arcane missiles to get missile barrage to procc? No talents or so to increase mana-friendlyness of arcane blast? And I need to go so deep in arcane with all those arc blast enchancing talents to get my other school spells to procc missile barrage either? Whats up with arcane barrage? When I'm spamming arcane blast with haste gear on, there is no point to use a relatively weak instant in between, that'd drop the dps actually. with all the haste increasing effects that will be implemented I doubt Arcane blast will be anywhere near viable, unless they remove the global cooldown reduction restriction of 1 secs.
I think deep freeze looks damned sexy now... It IS a talent to shatter combo with. 1.5 secs cast, even sexier with IV and 1319-1531 dmg, followed by icelance as shattercombo and a frostbolt on the still stunned target and a fireblast, so if its possible to get that spell off it should cause serious facemelting...
Fiery payback is kinda @#%^ed up, but did you see firestarter? with 0/51/20 elemental specc thats also kinda awsome... nova->DB->BW->instant lamestrike. Though blizz seems again undecided weather or not fire is a single target tree, for aoe, or even for Pvp... althugh I can see the huge aoe buffs.
One thing that concerns me though is the damage absorbed by Icebarrier... either the average damage we're up against won't be soooo huge, and blizz just wants to toss us a cookie in PvP, or we'll be facing hard times... then most of our lame-scaling aoe spells along with deep freeeze and so on will be completely insufficient to keep up with the hp and dps of other classes...
Arcane tree synergy is also kinda weird... so I need to absorb dmg with mana shield to get 300 SD for like 4000 mana loss? and I cannot spam arcane missiles to get missile barrage to procc? No talents or so to increase mana-friendlyness of arcane blast? And I need to go so deep in arcane with all those arc blast enchancing talents to get my other school spells to procc missile barrage either? Whats up with arcane barrage? When I'm spamming arcane blast with haste gear on, there is no point to use a relatively weak instant in between, that'd drop the dps actually. with all the haste increasing effects that will be implemented I doubt Arcane blast will be anywhere near viable, unless they remove the global cooldown reduction restriction of 1 secs.
They changed Arcane blast, they got rid of the haste benefit and made it
Blizzard wrote:
From our internal patch notes:
Arcane Blast effect duration reduced to 3 seconds, now increases damage by 15/30/45% instead of reducing cast time.
Arcane Blast effect duration reduced to 3 seconds, now increases damage by 15/30/45% instead of reducing cast time.
45% after spelldamage is calculated in, or before?
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast ... Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast....Magegasim starting - must calm down...
In Arena it is very easy to be below 35% health, I would bet that I'm below that line almost as much as i'm above it. ***** resilience gear. I wonder if people will start wearing some of the higher stam PVE gear that's out there for more damage.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast!!! I'm gonna get my crit rating as hihg as I can for arena.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast.
In Arena it is very easy to be below 35% health, I would bet that I'm below that line almost as much as i'm above it. ***** resilience gear. I wonder if people will start wearing some of the higher stam PVE gear that's out there for more damage.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast!!! I'm gonna get my crit rating as hihg as I can for arena.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast.
Quote:
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast ... Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast....Magegasim starting - must calm down...
In Arena it is very easy to be below 35% health, I would bet that I'm below that line almost as much as i'm above it. ***** resilience gear. I wonder if people will start wearing some of the higher stam PVE gear that's out there for more damage.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast!!! I'm gonna get my crit rating as hihg as I can for arena.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast.
In Arena it is very easy to be below 35% health, I would bet that I'm below that line almost as much as i'm above it. ***** resilience gear. I wonder if people will start wearing some of the higher stam PVE gear that's out there for more damage.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast!!! I'm gonna get my crit rating as hihg as I can for arena.
Seriously 1.5 second Pyroblast.
Lasz time I checked 6-3.5 was 2.5 seconds, not 1.5, and if u're at 35% that meas you're getting focused, so try getting off ur 2.5 sec imba pyro when someone is hitting you... And besides, one doesn't build a specc around one potential situation, when everything else sucks
They also reduced the cast time to 5 secs I believe.
Quote:
They also reduced the cast time to 5 secs I believe.
Well, then He'd indeed be right, but still the second part holds true... its just not handy to build a specc around being at 35% hp -.-, also not building for a single talent in one tree, when 10 from the other tree are good.
Don't rain on my fantasy. I know it's going to change and it won't work out exactly the way i dream, but I can dream.
Don't rain on my fantasy. I know it's going to change and it won't work out exactly the way i dream, but I can dream.
So while looking at the trees, here is what I have come up with, looking at where to put the last 3 points:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage=2305002012303031050020000000023502031003501000000000000023000500010000000000000000000
I'm thinking either pyromaniac or winter's chill...
Ideas?
This will be for FFB spam btw with a in improved scorch debuff up. I don't think that it will be worth it to get the frost fingers because of how situational it is.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 8:37pm by Anobix
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage=2305002012303031050020000000023502031003501000000000000023000500010000000000000000000
I'm thinking either pyromaniac or winter's chill...
Ideas?
This will be for FFB spam btw with a in improved scorch debuff up. I don't think that it will be worth it to get the frost fingers because of how situational it is.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 8:37pm by Anobix
Quote:
It got nerfed in a way, but it got buffed to aid not just fire mages, but all mages as well as any class that uses Arcane or Frost damage as well(Moonkins and Deathknights primarily). Add in the new Focus Magic talent, and you've got some more synergy going now, which is definitely good.
I seriously doubt Focus Magic is going to be good. 7500 damage if all charges are used, instant cast, 1k mana. 7.5 damage per mana, so not very efficent. I can't imagine you could keep it up, as 50 harges won't last more than 9 seconds, much less if dots eat charges. So what we have is inefficent damae over a short period of time. Meh.
Edit:
2 Minute LOLPOMPYRO not viable the way I want it....
But still, looking at all these talents, it's like trying to buy a new car....
WHICH DO I GET?!
I mean, I'm very excited looking at everything. I'm so thankful that I decided to start stocking up on some non-frost gear.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 10:48pm by BillyRayValentine
2 Minute LOLPOMPYRO not viable the way I want it....
But still, looking at all these talents, it's like trying to buy a new car....
WHICH DO I GET?!
I mean, I'm very excited looking at everything. I'm so thankful that I decided to start stocking up on some non-frost gear.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 10:48pm by BillyRayValentine
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
It got nerfed in a way, but it got buffed to aid not just fire mages, but all mages as well as any class that uses Arcane or Frost damage as well(Moonkins and Deathknights primarily). Add in the new Focus Magic talent, and you've got some more synergy going now, which is definitely good.
I seriously doubt Focus Magic is going to be good. 7500 damage if all charges are used, instant cast, 1k mana. 7.5 damage per mana, so not very efficent. I can't imagine you could keep it up, as 50 harges won't last more than 9 seconds, much less if dots eat charges. So what we have is inefficent damae over a short period of time. Meh.
the whole raid gets to use it so it would be pretty short lived. Having 2 arcane mages chain it one after another would be fun for everyone as normal trinkets last over 15s which should be enough to go through 2 focu magic debuff charges.
Scholar
29 posts
hey all
Nice comments for new mage talents.
The only thingy i need is to kick the locks on boss fight in dps :)
That would be nice so they can get down from there high mountain
Trold
Nice comments for new mage talents.
The only thingy i need is to kick the locks on boss fight in dps :)
That would be nice so they can get down from there high mountain
Trold
Troldeerind wrote:
hey all
Nice comments for new mage talents.
The only thingy i need is to kick the locks on boss fight in dps :)
That would be nice so they can get down from there high mountain
Trold
Nice comments for new mage talents.
The only thingy i need is to kick the locks on boss fight in dps :)
That would be nice so they can get down from there high mountain
Trold
http://wowwebstats.com/zzmxbpxdqupvu
how's that?
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 2:31am by Anobix
cancerous wrote:
the whole raid gets to use it so it would be pretty short lived. Having 2 arcane mages chain it one after another would be fun for everyone as normal trinkets last over 15s which should be enough to go through 2 focu magic debuff charges.
I could imagine a lot of fun with it if used during the right times. Perhaps something like a Curator evocate type moment, 20% fire mage happy time, or just when everyone is blowing all their cooldowns at once.
Scholar
29 posts
yes lets see how it goes at levl 80 but i my guild our locks do real nice dps in generel :)
Anobix u did well there but locks do better dps in average, hope that will be better for mages in average in Wrath ....
And lets hope we can get help from each others as mages in raids more than we do now :)so we again are feared in all wow hehe
Trold
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 2:38am by Troldeerind
Anobix u did well there but locks do better dps in average, hope that will be better for mages in average in Wrath ....
And lets hope we can get help from each others as mages in raids more than we do now :)so we again are feared in all wow hehe
Trold
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 2:38am by Troldeerind
sorry, couldn't test last night, server was down all evening. 
what really pisses me off about focus magic is that demo warlocks get a better version of it!
Demonic Pact:
"Your pet's criticals apply the Demonic Pact effect to the target. Demonic Pact increases the spell power of all attackers against that target by 10% of your Spell Damage for 12 sec."
this has several advantages over the mage spell:
- it costs no mana
- it stays up for 12 seconds instead of 50 charges (with 10 casters hitting every 2 seconds average, that's about even)
- it scales. this is my biggest gripe. at 1500 spelldamage (which we have already), you get 150 like mage buff. when your gear improves, the debuff improves with it. while focus magic stays at 150 for ever.
we got the shaft, again!
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 9:02am by Turicus
what really pisses me off about focus magic is that demo warlocks get a better version of it!
Demonic Pact:
"Your pet's criticals apply the Demonic Pact effect to the target. Demonic Pact increases the spell power of all attackers against that target by 10% of your Spell Damage for 12 sec."
this has several advantages over the mage spell:
- it costs no mana
- it stays up for 12 seconds instead of 50 charges (with 10 casters hitting every 2 seconds average, that's about even)
- it scales. this is my biggest gripe. at 1500 spelldamage (which we have already), you get 150 like mage buff. when your gear improves, the debuff improves with it. while focus magic stays at 150 for ever.
we got the shaft, again!
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 9:02am by Turicus
Professor Turicus wrote:
we got the shaft, again!
Ours is also near the early part of the tree and only costs one talent point while theirs in the extreme late part of the tree and costs 5 talent points. And I'm not convinced that deep demonology will really be a major raiding build.
Also, I've been thinking of the potion change along with everything else(such as the change to Arcane Blast) and I'm starting to think that DPM is going to become much more relevant than it is now. I mean, honestly, who thinks about DPM now as a mage? I know I completely ignore it unless I'm AoEing, personally. I foresee us coming to a point when we'll see mages forgoing some of their haste for more raw damage, or possibly even for Int/MP5 or even spirit(ok, so we see that now with Arcane builds, but I think it'll be more and more relevant to all come WotLK).
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Professor Turicus wrote:
we got the shaft, again!
Ours is also near the early part of the tree and only costs one talent point while theirs in the extreme late part of the tree and costs 5 talent points. And I'm not convinced that deep demonology will really be a major raiding build.
Also, I've been thinking of the potion change along with everything else(such as the change to Arcane Blast) and I'm starting to think that DPM is going to become much more relevant than it is now. I mean, honestly, who thinks about DPM now as a mage? I know I completely ignore it unless I'm AoEing, personally. I foresee us coming to a point when we'll see mages forgoing some of their haste for more raw damage, or possibly even for Int/MP5 or even spirit(ok, so we see that now with Arcane builds, but I think it'll be more and more relevant to all come WotLK).
if we go along those lines, Focus Magic would be very good. Out of 3 mages, 2 can spec it and the other 1 can spec elementalist (I am not very certain it will be that viable without the over the top crit talent stacking) the mages will have to use it at say the herosim go calls and let the whole raid go apesh*t on the boss mob.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Professor Turicus wrote:
we got the shaft, again!
Ours is also near the early part of the tree and only costs one talent point while theirs in the extreme late part of the tree and costs 5 talent points. And I'm not convinced that deep demonology will really be a major raiding build.
true, but warlocks already have loads of raid utility, compared to our nearly none. and who is more a master of magic/the arcane? a demo warlock or an arcane mage? i agree with your tree position argument. but it just doesn't feel right.
and not scaling in any way is just plain bad. any ability that loses value when your gear improves is just not very well designed. at level 80 endgame, we're looking at well over 2k spd, so it becomes less and less useful. that's my main gripe.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Also, I've been thinking of the potion change along with everything else(such as the change to Arcane Blast) and I'm starting to think that DPM is going to become much more relevant than it is now. I mean, honestly, who thinks about DPM now as a mage? I know I completely ignore it unless I'm AoEing, personally. I foresee us coming to a point when we'll see mages forgoing some of their haste for more raw damage, or possibly even for Int/MP5 or even spirit(ok, so we see that now with Arcane builds, but I think it'll be more and more relevant to all come WotLK).
i like the pot change because it will be an emergency thing and they won't have to design encounters around chain poting.
finally, mages other than arcane can make use of the spi on gear. it will be useful, but i don't think mp5/spi/int will become primary stats. there are a lot more group-/raidwide mana regen abilities. stand near manatide, you get mana. surv hunters regen mana for their group on crit, ele shaman reduces mana costs on crit, rejuv has a chance to restore mana every tick etc. etc. and there are several talents that give haste, so we can concentrate on spelldamage to increase dps AND dpm.
btw, i am really enjoying this in-depth discussion of the changes, thanks to all involved!
edit: spelling
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 11:10am by Turicus
Ive been waiting for changes to come to our tree since the beta talents were released and finally yes!! There was no way that blizzard could let us go empty handed when locks are getting metamorphosis and haunt and tons of plus dmg talents......I love the way the fire tree is set up so that other trees can finally use the tier 1 talents, ie: imp fire blast and the crit talents!! and they really just improved all the trees in general besides the nerf to wg but everyone knew it would happen...Im glad to see that deep fire is still a viable build for raids and pvp (i.e knockback with blast wave and 5 sec disorient change from 3 sec to dragons breath and shorter cast time on pyro even if it is situational..and instant flamestrike proc is ownage) Im excited again for mages, when the beta talents first came out I was struggling to see how mages could keep up with other classes talents...., but now thats over yeah I love being a mage!
Troldeerind wrote:
yes lets see how it goes at levl 80 but i my guild our locks do real nice dps in generel :)
Anobix u did well there but locks do better dps in average, hope that will be better for mages in average in Wrath ....
And lets hope we can get help from each others as mages in raids more than we do now :)so we again are feared in all wow hehe
Trold
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 2:38am by Troldeerind
Anobix u did well there but locks do better dps in average, hope that will be better for mages in average in Wrath ....
And lets hope we can get help from each others as mages in raids more than we do now :)so we again are feared in all wow hehe
Trold
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 2:38am by Troldeerind
Note: I normally get #1 or #2 on Mother.
If you add in (or avg) the amount of damage that the #1 and #2 did on that fight and give that number to me (I died really early because of a bad teleport of other people in the middle of the raid that I didn't live through and a brez wasn't available for me). That I would be back at #1 in overall boss damage, not necessarily for dps, but overall damage output.
I don't get Missle Barrage and Brain Freeze. If your that far down in the frost tree, why would you be using a fireball? Since it specifically says fireball I'm assuming it won't apply to FFB. If you are using everything except Arcane Missile, it seems inefficient to try to get them into your rotation on the chance that this procs.
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