http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage
Far too many changes for me to go over here, changes to all of the trees, some for the better some worse (they got rid of winter's grasp for an effect that only effects your next spell as if it was frozen). They gave the Water Elemental a group heal, and more! They moved talents all over the place and expanded off of different ones.
Edited, Jul 28th 2008 11:22pm by Anobix
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- Huge changes incoming to the talent trees:
Huge changes incoming to the talent trees:Follow
Things worthy to mention?
Blastwave gets a knockback, Dragon's Breath disorient is 5 seconds, Master of Elements affects Arcane spells, Improved Scorch is a 10% damage increase of Fire, Frost, and Arcane when fully stacked, Pyroblast is now a 5-second cast, there's a talent which reduces Pyroblast cast time by 3.5 seconds when health is below 35% (the talent also reduces physical and fire damage taken), Living Bomb has a mana burn aspect added, Burnout is now 25% more crit damage for 5% higher mana costs on crits, talents on the lower tiers have been moved around.
Arcane Fortitude is a 3-point talent to increase armor by 150% of intellect, 11-pointer is called Arcane Focus which is a Hemo debuff for spells, Arcane Potency is a 2-pointer connected to Presence of Mind that works off both Clearcasting and PoM. Missile Barrage now procs the AMs to be 2.5 seconds instead of 1.5 seconds, Prismatic Cloak has another rank to make Invisibility instant-cast without fade time at all.
A semi-weak, semi-handy raid-wide healing aura is on Improved Water Elemental, Winter's Grasp is replaced with a heavily nerfed solo version of itself (Fingers of Frost), Brain Freeze is a proc so that Frost spells trigger your next Fireball to be instant-cast and free, and Deep Freeze got a stun. Also, there's a talent that makes Ice Barrier act exactly like Shatter Shield.
But Frozen Core still isn't gone.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 1:31am by Raglu
Blastwave gets a knockback, Dragon's Breath disorient is 5 seconds, Master of Elements affects Arcane spells, Improved Scorch is a 10% damage increase of Fire, Frost, and Arcane when fully stacked, Pyroblast is now a 5-second cast, there's a talent which reduces Pyroblast cast time by 3.5 seconds when health is below 35% (the talent also reduces physical and fire damage taken), Living Bomb has a mana burn aspect added, Burnout is now 25% more crit damage for 5% higher mana costs on crits, talents on the lower tiers have been moved around.
Arcane Fortitude is a 3-point talent to increase armor by 150% of intellect, 11-pointer is called Arcane Focus which is a Hemo debuff for spells, Arcane Potency is a 2-pointer connected to Presence of Mind that works off both Clearcasting and PoM. Missile Barrage now procs the AMs to be 2.5 seconds instead of 1.5 seconds, Prismatic Cloak has another rank to make Invisibility instant-cast without fade time at all.
A semi-weak, semi-handy raid-wide healing aura is on Improved Water Elemental, Winter's Grasp is replaced with a heavily nerfed solo version of itself (Fingers of Frost), Brain Freeze is a proc so that Frost spells trigger your next Fireball to be instant-cast and free, and Deep Freeze got a stun. Also, there's a talent that makes Ice Barrier act exactly like Shatter Shield.
But Frozen Core still isn't gone.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 1:31am by Raglu
Quote:
Pyroblast is now a 5-second cast, there's a talent which reduces Pyroblast cast time by 3.5 seconds when health is below 35% (the talent also reduces physical and fire damage taken),
I'm liking the sound of that. More BOOM = more better.
Is it just me, or did they buff the damage of living bomb?
Also, Firestarter...I'm gonna like Firestarter. And even with the change from Winter's Grasp to Fingers of Frost, the only real difference is that now you don't have the synergy between the multiple mages. When calculated for a single mage, there's no change there to the elementalist frostfire bolt spec.
Edit: Wait. World in Flames increases crit chance of... BLIZZARD?!
Edit2: Nerf to Imp Scorch? NNOOOOO!!!!!
Edit3: This change to the placement of Impact...HAET. Srsly fcking haet.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 12:13am by Poldaran
Also, Firestarter...I'm gonna like Firestarter. And even with the change from Winter's Grasp to Fingers of Frost, the only real difference is that now you don't have the synergy between the multiple mages. When calculated for a single mage, there's no change there to the elementalist frostfire bolt spec.
Edit: Wait. World in Flames increases crit chance of... BLIZZARD?!
Edit2: Nerf to Imp Scorch? NNOOOOO!!!!!
Edit3: This change to the placement of Impact...HAET. Srsly fcking haet.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 12:13am by Poldaran
Quote:
Edit2: Nerf to Imp Scorch? NNOOOOO!!!!!
Hmmmm, I kinda like the idea of having something that buffs damage on whatever I feel like casting instead of just fire...but we lose what...5% damage bonus to fire? Kinda pricey for a little more flexibility.
Do you think maybe there is some intent to shake up the traditional builds? A lot of the changes seem to encourage less "cookie cutter" talent choices....factor in the rumors about inscriptions offering bonus effects to spells, and we could be seeing more unique toons....
Kahbueme wrote:
Do you think maybe there is some intent to shake up the traditional builds? A lot of the changes seem to encourage less "cookie cutter" talent choices....factor in the rumors about inscriptions offering bonus effects to spells, and we could be seeing more unique toons....
It's possible. Though I'm definitely leaning towards a nice elementalist build right now, I can see the merits in several other possible builds.
Also, WTB Focus Magic mages in my raid. Which shouldn't be too hard considering we have 3 raiding arcane mages in my guild.
Oh
MY
GOD.
They finally got rid of Wand Specialization.
Also, here are all the changes.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 1:09am by Poldaran
MY
GOD.
They finally got rid of Wand Specialization.
Also, here are all the changes.
Quote:
Mage
Arcane
* Arcane Subtley - Lower your target’s resistances by 5/10 changed to 15/30% dispel resist
* Wand Specialization - Removed
* Arcane Fortitude - Moved to Wand Specialization’s spot, changed to 3 ranks, now provides 50/100/150% of your Intellect into armor.
* Magic Absorption - Changed to 2 ranks, increases resistances by .5/1 per level, now only restores 1/2% of mana on full resist.
* Arcane Impact - Renamed Spell Impact. Now increases the damage of your Arcane Explosion, Arcane Blast, Blast Wave, Fire Blast, Ice Lance, and Cone of Cold by 2/4/6%.
* Student of the Mind - Moved to Tier 3
* Focus Magic - New Tier 3 talent, increases magic damage taken by the target by 150, lasts 1 min or 50 charges.
* Improved Mana Shield - Renamed Arcane Shielding, now increases the armor and resistances gained by the mage by 25/50%.
* Improved Blink - Now reduces the mana cost of Blink by 25/50%, and chance to be hit for 4 sec after Blink by 15/30%.
* Prismatic Cloak - Now reduces damage taken by 2/4/6% and Invisibility fade time by 1/2/3 sec
* Arcane Potency - Reduced to 2 ranks, connected to Presence of Mind instead of Clearcasting, Increases critical strike chance of any spell by 30% when
* Empowered Arcane Missiles - Renamed Arcane Empowerment, now Increases the damage of your Arcane Missiles spell by an amount equal to 15/30/45% of your spell power and the damage of your Arcane Blast by 3/6/9% of your spell power.
* Potent Spirit - Removed, replaced by Arcane Flows. Reduces the cooldown of your Presence of Mind, Arcane Power and Invisibility spells by 30/60 secs.
* Netherwind Presence - Reduced to 3 ranks and moved up a tier, now increases your spell haste by 2/4/6%.
* Missile Barrage - Added in place of Netherwind Presence. Gives your Arcane Blast, Fireball, Frostbolt and Frostfire Bolt spells a 15% chance to reduce the channeled duration of the next Arcane Missiles spell by 2.5 secs and fire missiles every .5 secs.
Fire
* Improved Fire Blast - Moved to Tier 1, now 2 ranks, Reduces the cooldown of your Fire Blast spell by 1/2 sec.
* Incineration - Moved to tier 1, now 3 ranks, Increases the critical strike chance of your Fire Blast, Scorch, Arcane Blast and Cone of Cold spells by 2/4/6%.
* Burning Determination - New Tier 2 talent, When Interrupted or Silenced you have a 50/100% chance to become immune to both mechanics for 10 seconds.
* World in Flames - Moved to Tier 2, Increases the critical strike chance of your Flamestrike, Blast Wave, Dragon’s Breath, Living Bomb, Blizzard and Arcane Explosion spells by 2/4/6%.
* Flame Throwing - Moved to Tier 3
* Impact - Moved to Tier 3
* Pyroblast - Cast time reduced to 5 seconds
* Improved Scorch - More damage types added, now your Scorch spells have a 33/66/100% chance to cause your target to be vulnerable to Fire, Frost and Arcane damage, increasing damage taken by 2/4/6/6/10% and lasts 30 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
* Master of Elements - Fire and frost wording removed, now your spell criticals will refund 10% of their base mana cost.
* Blast Wave - Knockback added, now a wave of flame radiates outward from the caster, damaging all enemies caught within the blast for 154 to 186 Fire damage, knocking them back and Dazing them for 6 seconds.
* Fiery Payback - Changed to, When below 35% health all Physical and Fire damage taken is reduced by 10/20% and your Pyroblast spell’s cast time is reduced by 1.75/3.5 secs.
* Empowered Fireball - Changed to 3 ranks, Increases the damage of your Fireball spell by an amount equal to 5/10/15% of your spell power.
* Firestarter - New talent added, Your Blast Wave and Dragon’s Breath spells have a 15/30/45% chance to make your next Flamestrike spell instant cast. Lasts 10 seconds.
* Dragon’s Breath - Disorient changed from 3 sec to 5 sec
* Burnout - Talent changed to read, Increases your spell critical damage bonus with all Fire spells by 5/10/15/20/25% but your spell criticals cost an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of the spell’s cost.
* Living Bomb - Mana drain added, The caster becomes a living bomb, causing 51 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards every 2 sec. After 6 seconds, a fiery explosion occurs causing 212 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards and burning 106 mana, dealing damage equal to the amount drained.
Frost
* Shattered Barrier - New Tier 6 talent that gives your Ice Barrier spell a 50/100% chance to trigger a Frost Nova when it is destroyed.
* Winter’s Grasp - Renamed to Fingers of Frost, which gives your Frost damage spells a 5/10% chance to apply the Fingers of Frost effect, which treats your next Frost spell cast on the target as if the target were Frozen. Lasts 10 seconds.
* Brain Freeze - Changed to give your Frost damage spells have a 5/10/15% chance to cause your next Fireball spell to be instant cast and cost no mana.
* Improved Water Elemental - Changed to increase the duration of your Summon Water Elemental spell by 5/10/1515 sec and your Water Elemental heals all party or raid members 1/2/3% of their total health every 5 secs.
* Chilled to the Bone - Changed to increase the damage caused by your Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt and Ice Lance spells by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the movement speed of all chilled targets by an additional 2/4/6/8/10%.
* Deep Freeze - Damage added, causes 694 to 806 Frost damage and stuns the target for 5 seconds. Only usable on Frozen targets.
Arcane
* Arcane Subtley - Lower your target’s resistances by 5/10 changed to 15/30% dispel resist
* Wand Specialization - Removed
* Arcane Fortitude - Moved to Wand Specialization’s spot, changed to 3 ranks, now provides 50/100/150% of your Intellect into armor.
* Magic Absorption - Changed to 2 ranks, increases resistances by .5/1 per level, now only restores 1/2% of mana on full resist.
* Arcane Impact - Renamed Spell Impact. Now increases the damage of your Arcane Explosion, Arcane Blast, Blast Wave, Fire Blast, Ice Lance, and Cone of Cold by 2/4/6%.
* Student of the Mind - Moved to Tier 3
* Focus Magic - New Tier 3 talent, increases magic damage taken by the target by 150, lasts 1 min or 50 charges.
* Improved Mana Shield - Renamed Arcane Shielding, now increases the armor and resistances gained by the mage by 25/50%.
* Improved Blink - Now reduces the mana cost of Blink by 25/50%, and chance to be hit for 4 sec after Blink by 15/30%.
* Prismatic Cloak - Now reduces damage taken by 2/4/6% and Invisibility fade time by 1/2/3 sec
* Arcane Potency - Reduced to 2 ranks, connected to Presence of Mind instead of Clearcasting, Increases critical strike chance of any spell by 30% when
* Empowered Arcane Missiles - Renamed Arcane Empowerment, now Increases the damage of your Arcane Missiles spell by an amount equal to 15/30/45% of your spell power and the damage of your Arcane Blast by 3/6/9% of your spell power.
* Potent Spirit - Removed, replaced by Arcane Flows. Reduces the cooldown of your Presence of Mind, Arcane Power and Invisibility spells by 30/60 secs.
* Netherwind Presence - Reduced to 3 ranks and moved up a tier, now increases your spell haste by 2/4/6%.
* Missile Barrage - Added in place of Netherwind Presence. Gives your Arcane Blast, Fireball, Frostbolt and Frostfire Bolt spells a 15% chance to reduce the channeled duration of the next Arcane Missiles spell by 2.5 secs and fire missiles every .5 secs.
Fire
* Improved Fire Blast - Moved to Tier 1, now 2 ranks, Reduces the cooldown of your Fire Blast spell by 1/2 sec.
* Incineration - Moved to tier 1, now 3 ranks, Increases the critical strike chance of your Fire Blast, Scorch, Arcane Blast and Cone of Cold spells by 2/4/6%.
* Burning Determination - New Tier 2 talent, When Interrupted or Silenced you have a 50/100% chance to become immune to both mechanics for 10 seconds.
* World in Flames - Moved to Tier 2, Increases the critical strike chance of your Flamestrike, Blast Wave, Dragon’s Breath, Living Bomb, Blizzard and Arcane Explosion spells by 2/4/6%.
* Flame Throwing - Moved to Tier 3
* Impact - Moved to Tier 3
* Pyroblast - Cast time reduced to 5 seconds
* Improved Scorch - More damage types added, now your Scorch spells have a 33/66/100% chance to cause your target to be vulnerable to Fire, Frost and Arcane damage, increasing damage taken by 2/4/6/6/10% and lasts 30 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
* Master of Elements - Fire and frost wording removed, now your spell criticals will refund 10% of their base mana cost.
* Blast Wave - Knockback added, now a wave of flame radiates outward from the caster, damaging all enemies caught within the blast for 154 to 186 Fire damage, knocking them back and Dazing them for 6 seconds.
* Fiery Payback - Changed to, When below 35% health all Physical and Fire damage taken is reduced by 10/20% and your Pyroblast spell’s cast time is reduced by 1.75/3.5 secs.
* Empowered Fireball - Changed to 3 ranks, Increases the damage of your Fireball spell by an amount equal to 5/10/15% of your spell power.
* Firestarter - New talent added, Your Blast Wave and Dragon’s Breath spells have a 15/30/45% chance to make your next Flamestrike spell instant cast. Lasts 10 seconds.
* Dragon’s Breath - Disorient changed from 3 sec to 5 sec
* Burnout - Talent changed to read, Increases your spell critical damage bonus with all Fire spells by 5/10/15/20/25% but your spell criticals cost an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of the spell’s cost.
* Living Bomb - Mana drain added, The caster becomes a living bomb, causing 51 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards every 2 sec. After 6 seconds, a fiery explosion occurs causing 212 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards and burning 106 mana, dealing damage equal to the amount drained.
Frost
* Shattered Barrier - New Tier 6 talent that gives your Ice Barrier spell a 50/100% chance to trigger a Frost Nova when it is destroyed.
* Winter’s Grasp - Renamed to Fingers of Frost, which gives your Frost damage spells a 5/10% chance to apply the Fingers of Frost effect, which treats your next Frost spell cast on the target as if the target were Frozen. Lasts 10 seconds.
* Brain Freeze - Changed to give your Frost damage spells have a 5/10/15% chance to cause your next Fireball spell to be instant cast and cost no mana.
* Improved Water Elemental - Changed to increase the duration of your Summon Water Elemental spell by 5/10/1515 sec and your Water Elemental heals all party or raid members 1/2/3% of their total health every 5 secs.
* Chilled to the Bone - Changed to increase the damage caused by your Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt and Ice Lance spells by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the movement speed of all chilled targets by an additional 2/4/6/8/10%.
* Deep Freeze - Damage added, causes 694 to 806 Frost damage and stuns the target for 5 seconds. Only usable on Frozen targets.
Quote:
Quoted Text
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 1:09am by Poldaran
Quote:
* Deep Freeze - Damage added, causes 694 to 806 Frost damage and stuns the target for 5 seconds. Only usable on Frozen targets.
This is kinda **** because now you can't shatter combo since it has a chance to break frost nova now. I guess this is going to be useful only on Fingers of Frost effect.
Is it me, or did they totally Nerf Shatter Shield because it would've been better to have Ice Barrier and Shatter Shield on at the same time for the melee classes, but now they've put it into a talent :\
damn, there are some nice improvements! i like the new fire tree a lot more, although there are some stupid changes (scorch and impact). but at last, living bomb is starting to look like something.
fingers of frost is a nerf, but i can tell you from experience on the test server, the first version was just nuts. i could ice lance all the time (with FN thrown in), criting for 2500+ for 127 mana every GCD. uhm, yeah
they finally did something for raid utility (focus magic) and it looks like they gave a nice AoE focus with the damage increase and secondary effects.
if we can rely on frostfire bolt becoming our main nuke (not sure about that now due to cast time, base damage, scaling), this would be the elementalist build:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage=2305032012303331053120021051023510031003000000000000000002000000000000000000000000000
centered around FFB spam, crit increase, threat reduction and mana efficiency. i left out the fireball/frostbolt cast time talents. there are a few floater points that i put into arcane, presuming AoE will still be flamestrike, DB, BW, AE till CDs are back up, DB, BW etc.
note sure about firestarter. it sounds cool, but would you interrupt your cycle?
hot streak is still mediocre. at low crit chances, your chance to proc it is extremely low. with better gear, it does improve somewhat, so it may be viable to put your points there. but even with good crit chance, 3 points for about 2% extra crit that deep in the tree is meh.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage=0055032012303331033120311051003000000000000000000000000023000503110020000000000000000
this is a possible raid support, mana regen PVE build centred around fireball, mana sustainability and raid support with focus magic. with improved and empowered fireball, it may come out ahead of FFB, so we could be back to this OR a build which drops the arcane talents for icy veins, so exactly the same as we have now. you would lose focus magic, though.
looking forward to some nice discussions and feedback.
if you have any specific questions about talents, let me know, i'm on EU beta.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 10:18am by Turicus
fingers of frost is a nerf, but i can tell you from experience on the test server, the first version was just nuts. i could ice lance all the time (with FN thrown in), criting for 2500+ for 127 mana every GCD. uhm, yeah
they finally did something for raid utility (focus magic) and it looks like they gave a nice AoE focus with the damage increase and secondary effects.
if we can rely on frostfire bolt becoming our main nuke (not sure about that now due to cast time, base damage, scaling), this would be the elementalist build:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage=2305032012303331053120021051023510031003000000000000000002000000000000000000000000000
centered around FFB spam, crit increase, threat reduction and mana efficiency. i left out the fireball/frostbolt cast time talents. there are a few floater points that i put into arcane, presuming AoE will still be flamestrike, DB, BW, AE till CDs are back up, DB, BW etc.
note sure about firestarter. it sounds cool, but would you interrupt your cycle?
hot streak is still mediocre. at low crit chances, your chance to proc it is extremely low. with better gear, it does improve somewhat, so it may be viable to put your points there. but even with good crit chance, 3 points for about 2% extra crit that deep in the tree is meh.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?mage=0055032012303331033120311051003000000000000000000000000023000503110020000000000000000
this is a possible raid support, mana regen PVE build centred around fireball, mana sustainability and raid support with focus magic. with improved and empowered fireball, it may come out ahead of FFB, so we could be back to this OR a build which drops the arcane talents for icy veins, so exactly the same as we have now. you would lose focus magic, though.
looking forward to some nice discussions and feedback.
if you have any specific questions about talents, let me know, i'm on EU beta.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 10:18am by Turicus
Professor Turicus wrote:
if we can rely on frostfire bolt becoming our main nuke (not sure about that now due to cast time, base damage, scaling), this would be the elementalist build:
I still think Winter's Chill and Ice Shards alone will give it some good chance at netting main nuke status, and that's before looking at the other talents that will buff it. Fingers of Frost is indeed a nerf, but I'm curious about how exactly it will work. If it will only be consumed by(and benefit) the mage who procced it, then I think it's still only a nerf to our synergy between multiple mages.
Quote:
I still think Winter's Chill and Ice Shards alone will give it some good chance at netting main nuke status, and that's before looking at the other talents that will buff it. Fingers of Frost is indeed a nerf, but I'm curious about how exactly it will work. If it will only be consumed by(and benefit) the mage who procced it, then I think it's still only a nerf to our synergy between multiple mages.
But in my opinion synergy is exactly what mages are missing now a days, esp compared to locks. The more locks you bring into the raid, the higher their dmg will be.
Whereas mages only had the scorch thing, which also got debuffed I c, which isnt even that good qua synergy...
gnetter wrote:
Quote:
I still think Winter's Chill and Ice Shards alone will give it some good chance at netting main nuke status, and that's before looking at the other talents that will buff it. Fingers of Frost is indeed a nerf, but I'm curious about how exactly it will work. If it will only be consumed by(and benefit) the mage who procced it, then I think it's still only a nerf to our synergy between multiple mages.
But in my opinion synergy is exactly what mages are missing now a days, esp compared to locks. The more locks you bring into the raid, the higher their dmg will be.
I agree and I was looking forward to it, but it may have been a little overpowered(10% chance per mage for 5 seconds of 50% bonus crit has to be overpowered).
gnetter wrote:
Whereas mages only had the scorch thing, which also got debuffed I c, which isnt even that good qua synergy...
It got nerfed in a way, but it got buffed to aid not just fire mages, but all mages as well as any class that uses Arcane or Frost damage as well(Moonkins and Deathknights primarily). Add in the new Focus Magic talent, and you've got some more synergy going now, which is definitely good.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Professor Turicus wrote:
if we can rely on frostfire bolt becoming our main nuke (not sure about that now due to cast time, base damage, scaling), this would be the elementalist build:
I still think Winter's Chill and Ice Shards alone will give it some good chance at netting main nuke status, and that's before looking at the other talents that will buff it. Fingers of Frost is indeed a nerf, but I'm curious about how exactly it will work. If it will only be consumed by(and benefit) the mage who procced it, then I think it's still only a nerf to our synergy between multiple mages.
but then why not cast frostbolt? it has a cast-time reduction talent that FFB does not have, which makes a huge difference. what would be huge, is if you cold get ice shards AND ignite. but i think too much is still up in the air.
i have to get to 75 on beta to try FFB. 
two things on WG/FoF were changed:
+hit to all attackers was removed. goodbye raid synergy.
it now only affects your next spell. so it goes from all frost casters to only you and it goes from 4 seconds to one spell. before, you could get 2-3 ice lances in per mage!
massive nerf.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 11:51am by Turicus
Why bother changing arcane fortitude? Has anyone found a use for it yet?
Haven't had time to think about the more important changes but from a glance - changes to WG makes it less useful for raiding, why does the WE need a group heal and I assume this means it will go oom all the sooner? and for the rest the same meh as when I read the initial talents.
Edit: Ok WE group heal effect is passive (3% health/5 sec) and covers the raid. But you'd assuem the best time to use this would be during aoe damage in which case the WE is going to die anyway (unless it's randomly immune to aoe for that boss fight - currently I see no logic for which fights it's immune or susceptible other than the obvious frost encounters). I suppose you could pop it just after a timed aoe to help with healing, but I think it's mainly a pvp addition. I'd prefer it to gain a % of my hit.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 6:13am by Tynuv
Haven't had time to think about the more important changes but from a glance - changes to WG makes it less useful for raiding, why does the WE need a group heal and I assume this means it will go oom all the sooner? and for the rest the same meh as when I read the initial talents.
Edit: Ok WE group heal effect is passive (3% health/5 sec) and covers the raid. But you'd assuem the best time to use this would be during aoe damage in which case the WE is going to die anyway (unless it's randomly immune to aoe for that boss fight - currently I see no logic for which fights it's immune or susceptible other than the obvious frost encounters). I suppose you could pop it just after a timed aoe to help with healing, but I think it's mainly a pvp addition. I'd prefer it to gain a % of my hit.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 6:13am by Tynuv
Quote:
+hit to all attackers was removed. goodbye raid synergy.
But surely people wouldn't have relied on this to hit cap them? And if they didn't then it would be kind of obsolete.
I need to stop reading the wotlk wiki forums, they're far too depressing.
Professor Turicus wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Professor Turicus wrote:
if we can rely on frostfire bolt becoming our main nuke (not sure about that now due to cast time, base damage, scaling), this would be the elementalist build:
I still think Winter's Chill and Ice Shards alone will give it some good chance at netting main nuke status, and that's before looking at the other talents that will buff it. Fingers of Frost is indeed a nerf, but I'm curious about how exactly it will work. If it will only be consumed by(and benefit) the mage who procced it, then I think it's still only a nerf to our synergy between multiple mages.
but then why not cast frostbolt? it has a cast-time reduction talent that FFB does not have, which makes a huge difference. what would be huge, is if you cold get ice shards AND ignite. but i think too much is still up in the air.
i have to get to 75 on beta to try FFB. As I understand it, you get both Ice Shards and Ignite as it stands now. That's why it's so huge.
Professor Turicus wrote:
two things on WG/FoF were changed:
+hit to all attackers was removed. goodbye raid synergy.
+hit to all attackers was removed. goodbye raid synergy.
For that talent, but then they added in an easy to get low tiered arcane talent that gives 150 increased damage taken from spells for 50 charges debuff to your target. That's certainly some fun raid synergy.
Professor Turicus wrote:
it now only affects your next spell. so it goes from all frost casters to only you and it goes from 4 seconds to one spell. before, you could get 2-3 ice lances in per mage!
massive nerf.
massive nerf.
When chaincasting, you would have wanted to continue spamming your main nuke. Especially if it was FFB because it benefits from the fire and frost talents as it stands now. It does remove the ability to go "FFB -> Ice Lance", but not a big deal, IMO.
Tynuv wrote:
Why bother changing arcane fortitude? Has anyone found a use for it yet?
They removed wand spec to do it. Step in the right direction, IMO.
fiercestcalm wrote:
Quote:
+hit to all attackers was removed. goodbye raid synergy.
But surely people wouldn't have relied on this to hit cap them? And if they didn't then it would be kind of obsolete.
I need to stop reading the wotlk wiki forums, they're far too depressing.
There are some classes that don't fully hit cap(warriors, for instance, hit cap on yellow attacks and aren't hit capped on white damage) so it still benefits them. Casters tend to hit cap, though.
Turicus, can you take a mana potion and see if you get a debuff? And if you do, will you mouseover and screenshot it for us? I've just heard disturbing news.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
As I understand it, you get both Ice Shards and Ignite as it stands now. That's why it's so huge.
do you know this or are you speculating? source plz :)
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
For that talent, but then they added in an easy to get low tiered arcane talent that gives 150 increased damage taken from spells for 50 charges debuff to your target. That's certainly some fun raid synergy.
yes, i was only talking about FoF, i mentioned focus magic in my post too.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
When chaincasting, you would have wanted to continue spamming your main nuke. Especially if it was FFB because it benefits from the fire and frost talents as it stands now. It does remove the ability to go "FFB -> Ice Lance", but not a big deal, IMO.
but would FFB even proc FoF if it's doing fire damage? which it does most of the time, unless the target is more vulnerable to frost. the wording is "Gives your Frost damage spells...". still not sure about that one.
throwing in the ice lance would be good for DPM due to the tripple damage to frozen targets thing.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
There are some classes that don't fully hit cap(warriors, for instance, hit cap on yellow attacks and aren't hit capped on white damage) so it still benefits them. Casters tend to hit cap, though.
it would have benefited most dual wielders on their white damage. not that huge, but certainly not worthless.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Turicus, can you take a mana potion and see if you get a debuff? And if you do, will you mouseover and screenshot it for us? I've just heard disturbing news.
i'll do that this evening. it's early afternoon here and i'm at the office.
i saw that thread too. i think it's not that problematic. it's similar to the battle/guardian elixir change. if they design encounters around having 2 elixirs and being able to take one pot of any type, then it will just save you gold. instead of having encounters where you have to chug consumables every CD to make it through.
considering the changes to spirit and mana regen and practically all the mana regen abilities (like the innervate change), it might be possible.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Turicus, can you take a mana potion and see if you get a debuff? And if you do, will you mouseover and screenshot it for us? I've just heard disturbing news.
The thing where a minute after you take a mana pot, you lose all your mana due to "mana sickness"?
I heard about that. No more chainchugging.
Raglu wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Turicus, can you take a mana potion and see if you get a debuff? And if you do, will you mouseover and screenshot it for us? I've just heard disturbing news.
The thing where a minute after you take a mana pot, you lose all your mana due to "mana sickness"?
I heard about that. No more chainchugging.
lose all your mana? rubbish. it reads "Potion Sickness. Unable to consume potions until you rest out of combat for a short duration."
so you get a debuff that stops you from poting again until you leave combat. even if the two minutes are up. it will not affect grinding or 5-mans much because you leave combat every 2 minutes anyway. it will affect raid boss fights a lot because those may go on for 10 minutes and you can only chug 1 pot of any type. so EITHER a mana pot OR a health pot OR an absorption pot.
not a bad thing as they will have to balance encounters around raid setup, skill and equip instead of mass consumable use. good, imo.
(plus all the mana regen abilites and spi change mentioned above)
edit: i'll try out the exact mechanics when i have time to get on the beta. migth be a bit tight today due to gym + raid.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 1:37pm by Turicus
Professor Turicus wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
As I understand it, you get both Ice Shards and Ignite as it stands now. That's why it's so huge.
do you know this or are you speculating? source plz :)
check out the elitist jerks forums or the WoW Wotlk (oboards) forums, they state that the FFB qualifies as a frost+fire damage spell. It doesn't work with a few things though, ice shards and improved scorch (or it didn't pre-these changes, it may now).
Professor Turicus wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
When chaincasting, you would have wanted to continue spamming your main nuke. Especially if it was FFB because it benefits from the fire and frost talents as it stands now. It does remove the ability to go "FFB -> Ice Lance", but not a big deal, IMO.
but would FFB even proc FoF if it's doing fire damage? which it does most of the time, unless the target is more vulnerable to frost. the wording is "Gives your Frost damage spells...". still not sure about that one.
throwing in the ice lance would be good for DPM due to the tripple damage to frozen targets thing.
It does a snare even when doing fire damage, so I assume so.
the way i understand it now is that all talents that do something to "frost spells" or "fire spells" both improve FFB. the talents that only do something for a certain type of damage, like "increases fire damage...", only work if FFB is currently doing that school of damage. so my suggested FFB build might be worthwhile. needs more work to see how it scales.
if it does not work with ice shards, like you say anobix, then it will be useless because fireball will scale better and have more damage increasing talents than FFB.
can't wait for the weekend, i will push for 75 to start trying it out.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 3:46pm by Turicus
if it does not work with ice shards, like you say anobix, then it will be useless because fireball will scale better and have more damage increasing talents than FFB.
can't wait for the weekend, i will push for 75 to start trying it out.
Edited, Jul 29th 2008 3:46pm by Turicus
Quote:
They finally got rid of Wand Specialization.
Damn it and I just went out and bought myself a NIICCCEEEE wand.
Am I totally mistaken, or will it be kinda required to specc for some arcane points for huge utility? and is this debuff stacking? otherwise... WTB 10 mages for 25 mans ^^
I think deep freeze looks damned sexy now... It IS a talent to shatter combo with. 1.5 secs cast, even sexier with IV and 1319-1531 dmg, followed by icelance as shattercombo and a frostbolt on the still stunned target and a fireblast, so if its possible to get that spell off it should cause serious facemelting...
Fiery payback is kinda ****** up, but did you see firestarter? with 0/51/20 elemental specc thats also kinda awsome... nova->DB->BW->instant lamestrike. Though blizz seems again undecided weather or not fire is a single target tree, for aoe, or even for Pvp... althugh I can see the huge aoe buffs.
One thing that concerns me though is the damage absorbed by Icebarrier... either the average damage we're up against won't be soooo huge, and blizz just wants to toss us a cookie in PvP, or we'll be facing hard times... then most of our lame-scaling aoe spells along with deep freeeze and so on will be completely insufficient to keep up with the hp and dps of other classes...
Arcane tree synergy is also kinda weird... so I need to absorb dmg with mana shield to get 300 SD for like 4000 mana loss? and I cannot spam arcane missiles to get missile barrage to procc? No talents or so to increase mana-friendlyness of arcane blast? And I need to go so deep in arcane with all those arc blast enchancing talents to get my other school spells to procc missile barrage either? Whats up with arcane barrage? When I'm spamming arcane blast with haste gear on, there is no point to use a relatively weak instant in between, that'd drop the dps actually. with all the haste increasing effects that will be implemented I doubt Arcane blast will be anywhere near viable, unless they remove the global cooldown reduction restriction of 1 secs.
I think deep freeze looks damned sexy now... It IS a talent to shatter combo with. 1.5 secs cast, even sexier with IV and 1319-1531 dmg, followed by icelance as shattercombo and a frostbolt on the still stunned target and a fireblast, so if its possible to get that spell off it should cause serious facemelting...
Fiery payback is kinda ****** up, but did you see firestarter? with 0/51/20 elemental specc thats also kinda awsome... nova->DB->BW->instant lamestrike. Though blizz seems again undecided weather or not fire is a single target tree, for aoe, or even for Pvp... althugh I can see the huge aoe buffs.
One thing that concerns me though is the damage absorbed by Icebarrier... either the average damage we're up against won't be soooo huge, and blizz just wants to toss us a cookie in PvP, or we'll be facing hard times... then most of our lame-scaling aoe spells along with deep freeeze and so on will be completely insufficient to keep up with the hp and dps of other classes...
Arcane tree synergy is also kinda weird... so I need to absorb dmg with mana shield to get 300 SD for like 4000 mana loss? and I cannot spam arcane missiles to get missile barrage to procc? No talents or so to increase mana-friendlyness of arcane blast? And I need to go so deep in arcane with all those arc blast enchancing talents to get my other school spells to procc missile barrage either? Whats up with arcane barrage? When I'm spamming arcane blast with haste gear on, there is no point to use a relatively weak instant in between, that'd drop the dps actually. with all the haste increasing effects that will be implemented I doubt Arcane blast will be anywhere near viable, unless they remove the global cooldown reduction restriction of 1 secs.
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