As most people are aware of, retribution has been buffed over the past few patches. Many people enjoy the changes that were applied, however there is still something missing here. To myself, that something is a snare for PvP.
Nothing is more frustrating to a melee dps than to have their target out of melee range. I find that many other classes get various abilities to keep their intended targets within reach. This isn't always possible with a ret paladin. Pursuit of justice helps but it's neither a charge or intercept, let alone hamstring.
Warriors: Hamstring/piercing howl
Hunters: Frost trap/wing clip
Shamans: Earth totem(I realize that a totem is easily destroyed but at least they got some options)/frost shock
Rogues: Crippling poison/deadly throw
Mages: Frost bolt/cone of cold/slow
Priest: Mind Flay(I know this has to be specced into but at least they got an option)
Warlock: Curse of Exhaustion
Druid: Druids have no snares that I'm aware of. Perhaps they are asking for one as well.
I'm sure people who read this know what I'm talking about. I want to know everyone's thoughts on this. Thank you for reading.
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There's something missing hereFollow
I think you're listing stuff from other classes but overlooking obvious ones for pally.
HOJ and judge SOJ for starters. Those really are valid options. I use SOJ all the time in bg. It's working as intended.
HOJ and judge SOJ for starters. Those really are valid options. I use SOJ all the time in bg. It's working as intended.
ya, JoJustice is probably the most beneficial 'snare' in BGs(2nd to sheep sometimes).
WSG, you keep the FC from flying away.
AV, you can sit and JoJ everyone riding by you.
AB, see AV.
EotS, see WSG.
in arena, we neutralize resto Druids. otherwise your teammates can snare while you swing away.
Druids get Roots, the snariest of snares.
WSG, you keep the FC from flying away.
AV, you can sit and JoJ everyone riding by you.
AB, see AV.
EotS, see WSG.
in arena, we neutralize resto Druids. otherwise your teammates can snare while you swing away.
Quote:
Druid: Druids have no snares that I'm aware of. Perhaps they are asking for one as well.
Judgement of Justice makes Shaman a sad panda. No more ghost wolfing around pillars.
Blessing of Freedom is very powerful too, that and PoJ make you hard to kite. Mage blinks away? Repentence, and laugh as his chilling effects are resisted for 14 seconds. Warriors can't get the range to intercept, rogues can't shiv crippling poison on you to restealth and re-open,
I never really felt a lack of a snaring effect as a paldin.
I'd rather have some healing spell that can be cast on the fly, while running.
(Druids have Entangling roots btw. As a paladin you can watch them cast it and beat them to it with freedom. Can't say how much i love that ability. It's been the deciding factor in many arena matches.)
Edited, Jul 27th 2008 11:46am by ArtemisEnteri
Blessing of Freedom is very powerful too, that and PoJ make you hard to kite. Mage blinks away? Repentence, and laugh as his chilling effects are resisted for 14 seconds. Warriors can't get the range to intercept, rogues can't shiv crippling poison on you to restealth and re-open,
I never really felt a lack of a snaring effect as a paldin.
I'd rather have some healing spell that can be cast on the fly, while running.
(Druids have Entangling roots btw. As a paladin you can watch them cast it and beat them to it with freedom. Can't say how much i love that ability. It's been the deciding factor in many arena matches.)
Edited, Jul 27th 2008 11:46am by ArtemisEnteri
I can BoF out of Hamstring/piercing howl, wing clip, Crippling poison/deadly throw, Frost bolt/cone of cold/slow. I can cleanse off the rest. A ret pally can spec Pursuit of Justice and run down any player in the game if he doesn't suck, the shame is that most do suck. Prot pallies are a non issue in PvP and Holy Pallies are stationary healers so if they are smart they should be close to a LoS obstacle so if they do need to run its not far.
So what is the problem again?
/shrug
So what is the problem again?
/shrug
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
43 posts
People say freedom beats Intercept and charge?
thats garbage.
Repetence only has a 20 yard range. and Hammer of Justice a pitiful 5-10. and SoJ is a CHANCE ON HIT which means your playing a game of chance to hold em still. There is also a deadtime when Freedom is on cooldown, so people can run away and range u and laugh at your slow ***. If a frost mage is outside 20 yard range he can icelance u and dance around having the time of his life. He can get you to waste freedom by cone of cold and blinkin when its on cooldown he can frost nova then /dance when he gets bored own you. Just an example.
thats garbage.
Repetence only has a 20 yard range. and Hammer of Justice a pitiful 5-10. and SoJ is a CHANCE ON HIT which means your playing a game of chance to hold em still. There is also a deadtime when Freedom is on cooldown, so people can run away and range u and laugh at your slow ***. If a frost mage is outside 20 yard range he can icelance u and dance around having the time of his life. He can get you to waste freedom by cone of cold and blinkin when its on cooldown he can frost nova then /dance when he gets bored own you. Just an example.
43 posts
By the way have fun cleansing youself. youll run out of mana. then the people dont even have to run, they can watch u auto swing until they kill you.
Quote:
If a frost mage is outside 20 yard range he can icelance u and dance around having the time of his life. He can get you to waste freedom by cone of cold and blinkin when its on cooldown he can frost nova then /dance when he gets bored own you. Just an example.
are you dueling a frostmage? if its BG, go find something better to do. if its arena, you make him run out of LoS from his healer and pummel him...mages cant hit hard while on the defensive.
also, a good frostmage will not blow a blink on a pally.
43 posts
blink is what? a 14 second cooldown? theyll take your repetence, blink out of your hammer and lance u, they dont have to turn around to lance, and btw, frost mages dont have healers bro. thats a terrible team. im talking 2s, theres a problem to you running out of LOS, you cant do any damage, and any good ret team is double dps with prolly a rogue, hell just turn on your rogue. My point was being ret pallies are extremely easy to shut down.
[SoJ gimps your dps horribly, unless your in full t5+ if your using that your pretty much a non factor that the other team doesnt even have to worry about.]
[SoJ gimps your dps horribly, unless your in full t5+ if your using that your pretty much a non factor that the other team doesnt even have to worry about.]
Intercept and Charge is a whole different ball of wax, blizzard has already covered why Pallies aren't getting one.
Cleanse costs 177 mana for me. I have 11.4k mana unbuffed, with a mix of 4 piece t6 and Brutal/Vengeful gear I still have over 120mp5 (unbuffed while casting). Needless to say I am not going OOM cause I am not in terrible gear. As a ret pally BoF should do the job, along with PoJ and JoJ. The only one you would have to clease off is Frost shock if you had a shaman on the other team, so that's a big "if" and even then it wouldn't be a mana issue. Also if you have a disc priest with Mass Dispell running with you in a 3v3 or 5v5 setting then its a non issue as well for the most part.
There isn't a single melee class in the game that doesn't have to combat, slow or roots in one way or another. Warriors, Shamans and Rogues have ways to close the gap, we are unique in that we have ways to close the gap that involve removing the effect. Learn 2 play or continue to moan over something that is easily avoidable for the most part if you have a clue.
Quote:
By the way have fun cleansing youself. youll run out of mana
Cleanse costs 177 mana for me. I have 11.4k mana unbuffed, with a mix of 4 piece t6 and Brutal/Vengeful gear I still have over 120mp5 (unbuffed while casting). Needless to say I am not going OOM cause I am not in terrible gear. As a ret pally BoF should do the job, along with PoJ and JoJ. The only one you would have to clease off is Frost shock if you had a shaman on the other team, so that's a big "if" and even then it wouldn't be a mana issue. Also if you have a disc priest with Mass Dispell running with you in a 3v3 or 5v5 setting then its a non issue as well for the most part.
There isn't a single melee class in the game that doesn't have to combat, slow or roots in one way or another. Warriors, Shamans and Rogues have ways to close the gap, we are unique in that we have ways to close the gap that involve removing the effect. Learn 2 play or continue to moan over something that is easily avoidable for the most part if you have a clue.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#11REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 27 2008 at 12:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) you have 11.4k mana as ret?
#12REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 27 2008 at 12:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) btw your gear outclasses mine completely and you only have 50 more rating.
Started the 5v5 last night, got to 1723 pvp is easy. Normally rock a 2k+ rating. 2v2 and 3v3 I play for fun with guys from my home town and I will never make the claim that BM/Pally or Lock/Hunter/Pally is strong, but its fun and even with an *** backward comp we do aight. Honestly, learn to do both.
Edited, Jul 27th 2008 4:29pm by bodhisattva
Edited, Jul 27th 2008 4:29pm by bodhisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
43 posts
whatever man. the point wasnt that your a badass holy pally. have fun with that. im talking about ret. tyvm
It is You're, and my ret set is as good as my holy set now. T6, Brutal and Guardian.
The point is a lot of you kids are downy bad, have not a clue how to get the most out of the class and get completely wtfpwned then complain rather than apply yourself and get better.
The point is a lot of you kids are downy bad, have not a clue how to get the most out of the class and get completely wtfpwned then complain rather than apply yourself and get better.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#16REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 27 2008 at 1:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) youve never seen me play.
Feel free to link your armory so I can see your bad gear and bad arena rating and mock you, then you can make some cliche argument of me living in my parents basement and I won't bother to point out that I am actually kind of successful at life cause really 'who gives a rats ***'. Then it will quickly descend into a cantonese slap fight of "nu'uh and uh'huh" ending with us passionately making out.
Sound good?
Sound good?
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
43 posts
gotta give u props for that.
43 posts
thats something from gilmore girls or something :P
Quote:
blink is what? a 14 second cooldown? theyll take your repetence, blink out of your hammer and lance u, they dont have to turn around to lance, and btw, frost mages dont have healers bro. thats a terrible team. im talking 2s, theres a problem to you running out of LOS, you cant do any damage, and any good ret team is double dps with prolly a rogue, hell just turn on your rogue. My point was being ret pallies are extremely easy to shut down.
who is this 'they'? obviously not you. 'I' and other frostmages know better than to blink out of hammer of justice or any other pally spell. blinking is used to gain distance from the pally, where you then kite him to death. to use ice lance, you DO need to be in the visual cone of the enemy, ie. you cannot hit someone behind you. also, ice lance is a weaksauce spell unless used for a shatter crit.
when i said LoS, i said LoS from the mage's healer not the pally, ie. a pillar or bottom level.
Quote:
My point was being ret pallies are extremely easy to shut down.
lol, ALL pallies are easy to shut down. thats why there is a healer bottleneck in the 2v2 ranking. the higher you get as a pally the more difficult is it to remain viable. most Ret pallies top out at 1800, Holy at 2000. to make it much higher you need to play against some undeserving opponents. pallies only become a real force in the 5v5 bracket(or a real solid 3v3 team).
Quote:
[SoJ gimps your dps horribly, unless your in full t5+ if your using that your pretty much a non factor that the other team doesnt even have to worry about.]
i beleive the other poster meant judging SoJ and not the proc. also, why T5? i prefer my S3+ in arena.
Serialthrill wrote:
blink is what? a 14 second cooldown? theyll take your repetence, blink out of your hammer and lance u, they dont have to turn around to lance, and btw, frost mages dont have healers bro. thats a terrible team. im talking 2s, theres a problem to you running out of LOS, you cant do any damage, and any good ret team is double dps with prolly a rogue, hell just turn on your rogue. My point was being ret pallies are extremely easy to shut down.
[SoJ gimps your dps horribly, unless your in full t5+ if your using that your pretty much a non factor that the other team doesnt even have to worry about.]
[SoJ gimps your dps horribly, unless your in full t5+ if your using that your pretty much a non factor that the other team doesnt even have to worry about.]
Keep talking because you are hilarious.
43 posts
watch the 3v3 world tournament. the frost mage wasnt even turning around and he was icelancing people behind him. you blink out because when he gets to you, you can just have your partner cc him or frost nova him. gg. and i said t5 because tier for pallies is more focused on damage than survivability[obviously]. and i totally agree with you on the bottleneck. its a shame.
43 posts
I was mistaken about the LoS statement. but i do want to validate again any good team with a frost mage is double dps.
Serialthrill wrote:
and SoJ is a CHANCE ON HIT which means your playing a game of chance to hold em still.
I didn't catch anyone refute this, but they said JUDGEING SoJ. I don't like to call names, but man you really ARE an idiot. I agree it's entertaining though, so keep it up.
You realize the power of Judgement of Justice right? Opponent is moving at normal speed while you are running 15% faster = catch up. With Cleanse and BoF you should be able to catch anyone if you don't suck. And don't forget, Druids can't shift forms to get rid of JoJ. gg Druids.
43 posts
15% isnt much faster bro. some classes can cleanse it off and the ones that cant can cc or pillar hump you.
dont be dissing on me. you dont even HAVE an arena team bro, so good job copy and pasting.
dont be dissing on me. you dont even HAVE an arena team bro, so good job copy and pasting.
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dont be dissing on me. you dont even HAVE an arena team bro
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gotta give u props for that.
I actually couldnt care less about this argument, but if you're going to have it could we keep the Fat Abbot slang to a minimum?
Seriously, wigga-speak on internet forums is the Big Red Badge of Stupid.
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