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#1 Jul 26 2008 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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343 posts
This is my first Shammy so sorry for the newb question up front.

I'm currently using Galgann's Firehammerwith Windfury on each hand. I usually drop TOTs: Searing, Mana, Strength (waiting on Grace... and yeah, I'm happy they are melding them!!). I'm using Flame Shock (wait on cd) Stormshock, Earthshock, rinse/repeat.
I have an Alch so I almost always have an Agi pot and a Defence pot on.

I realize that my TOTs are not the best for a group, but I use them for me, and if they help others cool. I'm usually solo play anyway, though I do lay down a Windfury TOT when in group.

The question? Well, what is your spell chain? Am I sapping the most dps I can get with this combo? And do you guys use your Lighting Shield (even if it might sap a Stormstike charge?)

Thanks in advance.
#2 Jul 27 2008 at 4:17 AM Rating: Decent
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1,121 posts
earth shock may be better to use at that level since enemies die fast anyways, and you would get to do heavy burst with earth shock and storm strike debuffs. You could also try flame shock earth shock rotation for tougher enemies
#3 Jul 28 2008 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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387 posts
I found that (certainly at your level) enemies die so freaking fast that I hardly ever feel the need to drop totems. Only when adds arise / fighting elites / fighting quest mobs quite some above your level I dropped my totems. Your spell chain should consist of not much more than:

- pre-fight: if on full mana, lightning shield (if not, too much of a mana-drain);
- start-fight: just body-pull on normal mobs, on tough ones / elites a lightning bolt is good also;
- in-fight: one stormstrike, wait for a melee critical, one mana-reduced earthshock. Thats it. Stuff dies too fast to use more mana on them. If the need arise you can do one more mana-reduced earthshock, but it hardly ever will be needed.
- after-fight: a quick bandage when needed, so keep your First-Aid up. Conserve your mana for the next mob if possible.
- Rinse and repeat.

This will last you for a long time before you have to sit and drink. From level 50 (Shamanistic Rage) your downtime goes almost down to zero, from level 62 on (Water Shield) the downtime completely vanishes.

Have fun on your flight to 70!
#4 Jul 28 2008 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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861 posts
I avoided lightning shield so it wouldn't eat a SS charge. As everyone says, though, things died so fast I barely had a chance to ES them once. Your rotation and combo seems fine. Don't think you need all those totems on solo mobs but if it works, mazel tov.
#5 Jul 28 2008 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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1,121 posts
I use to love earthen shield cheap for good damage over time. Guess it is just me lol.
#6 Jul 28 2008 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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343 posts
Thanks guys!!

Yeah, I listed the tots 'cause I've been running Ulda, and using them a bit. But your right, they die so fast that I really don't use them questing. More so if I'm in place for more than one pull (fs pull one, kill... fs pull mob two, kill...ect...)

Anyway... off to lvl!!!
#7 Jul 29 2008 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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881 posts
I'm assuming you are enhancement because you state using WF on each hand.

Stormstrike > Earth Shock > Earth Shock on a regular mob.

Stormstrike > Flameshock > Earth Shock then SS > ES > ES til Flameshock ticks off on a raid boss/elite/long fight.

Also, its not a terrible idea to get a mod that lets you know when your hidden WF CD is up, for each Stormstrike.
#8 Aug 05 2008 at 2:24 PM Rating: Default
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842 posts
DarkRein wrote:
Stormstrike > Flameshock > Earth Shock then SS > ES > ES til Flameshock ticks off on a raid boss/elite/long fight.

Also, its not a terrible idea to get a mod that lets you know when your hidden WF CD is up, for each Stormstrike.


stormstrike is up every 10 seconds, the flame shock debuff only lasts 12 seconds, and there is a 6 second cooldown after any shock. how do you SS > ES > ES til flame shock ticks off on a raid boss and keep the flame shock debuff up?

stormstrike, 10 sec cooldown + GCD
...
flame shock, 6 sec cooldown
...
earth shock, 6 sec cooldown + GCD
...
stormstrike, 10 sec cooldown + GCD

at this point, the flame shock debuff will fall off forcing you to renew it. even if you talented into Reverberation, how do you do it? am i missing something here?

Edited, Aug 5th 2008 6:26pm by fromanthebarbarian
#9 Aug 05 2008 at 3:30 PM Rating: Default
i heard to get the max out of stormstrike/windfury you should have a main hand weapon with a spead around 2.5-2.7 and an off hand weapon with a slightly slower speed.. 2.7-2.9. reason being that windfurry has an internal cooldown of 3 seconds and these speeds will get the most 'hot' strikes.
#10 Aug 06 2008 at 9:40 AM Rating: Default
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842 posts
the reason for these speeds is so your offhand doesn't steal your next WF proc and give you a dinky little Windfury attack compared to a proc off your mainhand. Additionally, you want stormstrike to go off outside of the internal WF cooldown as much a possible since it gives a higher chance to proc a Windfury attack off of your mainhand than your normal white attack cycle would (referenced from EJ's enhancement thread around page 7, apologies if this has been disproven but I havent gone through the whole thread yet).
#11 Aug 06 2008 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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172 posts
On single mobs, used to prep:
Lightning shield
Flame totem

Then pull with:
Lightning bolt > frostshock > Lightning bolt

Then melee open with:
Stormstrike

If mob was still standing the winfuries would pretty much take it out in a second or two (usually - but one time I had my armor scratched).
#12 Aug 07 2008 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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842 posts
i find that the above rotation is quite spendy on mana. assuming you are grinding/questing on mobs a few levels lower than you like you should be, and that you can find maybe four or five of them all close by, i do the following:

plant totems:
strength of earth
grace of air
mana spring

open with stormstrike (NOT autoattack, so i can get higher chance of proccing WF off my mainhand)
usually get a crit, so flame shock is Focused
earth shock when shock cd is up (often Focused as well)
stormstrike again

windfury procs and crits in between can make this much shorter. of course if nothing procs, you end up using more mana.

i sometimes hit lightning shield if i haven't gotten many crits or WF procs and the mob is a dual wielder.


heal up with Gift of the Naaru and bandaging.
#13 Aug 07 2008 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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172 posts
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
i find that the above rotation is quite spendy on mana. assuming you are grinding/questing on mobs a few levels lower than you like you should be...

BAH! Me big Shaman!
Actually the above rotation is a bit heavy on mana, but the orbs carried over and I used to sit at the 'totem camp' and pull mobs back into it post initial setup, so had a good 2 minute killing field established.
Plus, at the level of dual wield and SS I was taking down mobs 1-3 levels above me - much better experience granted and, with that setup, and not much of a fight really.
#14 Aug 08 2008 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
the reason for these speeds is so your offhand doesn't steal your next WF proc and give you a dinky little Windfury attack compared to a proc off your mainhand. Additionally, you want stormstrike to go off outside of the internal WF cooldown as much a possible since it gives a higher chance to proc a Windfury attack off of your mainhand than your normal white attack cycle would (referenced from EJ's enhancement thread around page 7, apologies if this has been disproven but I havent gone through the whole thread yet).

For the billionth time, this is an urban legend.

While you can "incline" WF to proc more off of your main-hand being a faster weapon, this will only occur over time due to the fact that your main-hand will simply be striking more than your off-hand because it's faster. That should be very easy to understand mathematically, law of averages and all that. However, there is no way, practically, mathematically, or otherwise, to "outsmart" the internal cooldown mechanic with two different weapon speeds. WF is still a 20% proc chance and your weapons are always going to desync over time.

Bottom line, at the end of the day you are better off just using the two slowest one-handers with the best stats that you can find.
#15 Aug 08 2008 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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2,029 posts
WF has a 36% proc chance outside the 3-second cooldown while DW'ing.

Also, what he said is right, you can "force" more main-hand windfuries with SS, because the MH hit is rolled for first. For example:
-.1 - Windfury comes off cooldown
0.0 - Cast stormstrike
0.1 - MH attack determined, first WF chance
0.11 - Offhand attack determined, second WF chance
So that the MH WF has a chance before the offhand, ever-so-slightly inflating how many hits your MH gets by allowing it a chance first. Plus it increases your chance of getting WF off right after the cooldown, which is always a good thing.
#16 Aug 08 2008 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
lsfreak wrote:
Also, what he said is right, you can "force" more main-hand windfuries with SS, because the MH hit is rolled for first. For example:
-.1 - Windfury comes off cooldown
0.0 - Cast stormstrike
0.1 - MH attack determined, first WF chance
0.11 - Offhand attack determined, second WF chance
So that the MH WF has a chance before the offhand, ever-so-slightly inflating how many hits your MH gets by allowing it a chance first. Plus it increases your chance of getting WF off right after the cooldown, which is always a good thing.

I was talking about weapon speed. Everything you just said has absolutely nothing to do with weapon speed and everything to do with a timing Stormstrike around the WF cooldown. In which case, as always, you're going to be better off with a slow MH since if it does proc off the MH a slower weapon is going to cause just that much more damage. Ignore the combined math for a minute and take time to remember that it's a still a 20% chance per hit per weapon. There is absolutely no way to force a proc; you can only give it more chances to proc.

Timing SS around the WF cooldown? Yes, I agree. Good. Making sure your MH weapon is ~.20 faster than your OH? Pointless. Timing SS around WF has absolutely nothing to do with weapon speeds.
#17 Aug 20 2008 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
anywhere between 2-2.5weapon speed is good, but always make sure you put your faster weapon in off-hand, can't remember exactly why but it works well.
#18 Aug 21 2008 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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881 posts
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
DarkRein wrote:
Stormstrike > Flameshock > Earth Shock then SS > ES > ES til Flameshock ticks off on a raid boss/elite/long fight.

Also, its not a terrible idea to get a mod that lets you know when your hidden WF CD is up, for each Stormstrike.


stormstrike is up every 10 seconds, the flame shock debuff only lasts 12 seconds, and there is a 6 second cooldown after any shock. how do you SS > ES > ES til flame shock ticks off on a raid boss and keep the flame shock debuff up?

stormstrike, 10 sec cooldown + GCD
...
flame shock, 6 sec cooldown
...
earth shock, 6 sec cooldown + GCD
...
stormstrike, 10 sec cooldown + GCD

at this point, the flame shock debuff will fall off forcing you to renew it. even if you talented into Reverberation, how do you do it? am i missing something here?

Edited, Aug 5th 2008 6:26pm by fromanthebarbarian


Don't take my rotation so literally. Keeping Flameshock up a whole boss fight is not even possible in most cases. My rotation is to open with SS for my ele shammies, put up a debuff (flameshock) pop Earthshock as SS fades then rinse and repeat.

Do I have to tell you to make sure you drop totems every two minutes, or pop Bloodlust during a tough boss fight, or Shamanistic Rage when you are mana starved?

My point: don't be an idiot.
#19 Aug 21 2008 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
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676 posts
DarkRein wrote:
My point: don't be an idiot.



Every conversation should end this way....
#20 Aug 22 2008 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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881 posts
Galenmoon wrote:
DarkRein wrote:
My point: don't be an idiot.



Every conversation should end this way....


Join my guild. Most of them do. =P
#21 Aug 22 2008 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
19 posts
No point in trying to stick to a definite cycle. Just favour Flame Shock in any long fight whenever this effect is not already on the mob, and use Earth Shock otherwise. When soloing I use mostly Earthshock, though if I start a fight with a Shock (i.e. if I have a Focus left over from the previous fight) I'll use Flame. If the Stormstrike and Shock cooldowns are up at the same time I like to use a Shock first whenever Focus is up, and Stormstrike first otherwise. This helps a little with efficiency, as you have your highest chance of a melee crit upon clicking Stormstrike.
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