Hi all.
Can you help me out with my gears? What to do next, where to go for next piece?
Here is my char:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Danica
I quess I should get more stam and maby a bit more Armor?
What I would like to do is start tanking heroics and head to Kara.
I have tryed tank few heroic runs, but I am just not well enough equipped?
What would you do in my position?
Thank you allready from replyes.
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Looking for advice about gearsFollow
resocket all gems with 12 stam. stop going for socket bonuses.
enchants should be:
dodge/defense to head
dodge/defense to shoulders
150 health to chest
12 stam to bracers
2% threat to gloves
stam/agility (or dodge? i forget) to legs
boar's speed to feet
edited, 6 stats belongs on a dps chest, quick posting ftl.
Edited, Jul 26th 2008 3:49pm by fromanthebarbarian
enchants should be:
dodge/defense to head
dodge/defense to shoulders
150 health to chest
12 stam to bracers
2% threat to gloves
stam/agility (or dodge? i forget) to legs
boar's speed to feet
edited, 6 stats belongs on a dps chest, quick posting ftl.
Edited, Jul 26th 2008 3:49pm by fromanthebarbarian
Generally speaking, your problem is mostly lack of enchants, but I'll try to cover everything I see needing improvement.
As for enchants, your gear is not enchanted with optimal enchants I'm afraid.
Here is a list of what I recommend:
For head slot - Glyph of the Defender you can buy this at the Cavern of Time when you are revered with the Keepers of time.
For shoulder slot - seeing as you are Aldor your options are Inscription of Warding which you already have, and at exalted can be upgraded to Greater Inscription of Warding.
For cloak slot - 12 defense if defense is needed (it's better to use this enchant for that than gem for it), 12 agility for dodge and crit or 120 armor for the armor. Armor is probably the best option here, though I'm not 100% sure, it IS the cheapest :).
For chest slot -150 health is your best bet, though if defense is needed 15 defense is also an option, tad better than gemming for defense, as 1 stamina=1 defense rating on gems, but with Vitalty maxed 1 stamina=10.5 health, on this enchant you gain 10 health for 1 defense rating.
For bracer slot - 12 stamina is the best bet, but with the option to get 12 defense instead, if needed.
For glove slot - 2% threat is the only real option here.
For leg slot - Clefthide Leg Armor is the economic version, while Nethercleft Leg Armor is the best one.
For boot slot - Boar's Speed though very expensive, 12 stamina should do if you lack the money (or don't want to spend so much on an item you think you'll replace.
For weapon slot - Mongoose is THE option, as expensive as it is. Can be skipped if you think your weapon will be replaced soon.
For shield slot - 18 shield block rate for extra threat, but only when you feel comfortable with your health (which sadly you still shouldn't). Or the one you are using now 18 stamina.
Heavy Knothide Armor Kit and Knothide Armor Kit
can replace any slot (where applicable) if you think it'll take you too long a time to get the enchant itself, but only for that time, it's never the best option.
As for gems, you go for strength, agility and defense rating quite alot it seems.
Strength and agility are not really needed as a Warrior tank, so it's best to gem for something else.
You also gem for every gem bonus, that's not optimal as some of the gem bonuses are really not helpful for you, the shoulder, chest and bracers should be ignored. Some of the more helpful gem bonus can be ignored as well for more stamina if you think you lack in it.
I agree with fromanthebarbarian about Solid Star of Elune being your best bet on gems, but if the bonus from gemming correct is desireable try to use:
For yellow slots - Rigid Dawnstone, Thick Dawnstone or Enduring Talasite. The first will help with threat generation and the next 2 are good for reaching the defense minimum (which you are past).
For red slots - Subtle Living Ruby or Flashling Living Ruby both offer avoidance, while the former gives more avoidance and the latter more threat generation.
For blue slots - Solid Star of Elune should be your ONLY choice. It's the default gem to put when you don't need the socket bonus.
For meta slots, when you get one - Eternal Earthstorm Diamond is a very solid choice, more block value equals more threat from Shield Slam, also the best option to reach defense minimum if you need to gem for it in my opinion, the other option is Powerful Earthstorm Diamond which is great if you are over 490 defense.
Most of your gear is OK, but some items really stick to the eye:
Your ranged weapon is for DPS, better options are Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer but is very expensive or Nightstrike from Priestess Delrissa from The Magisters Terrace, both normal and heroic. She is the "5vs5" boss.The Boomstick is good as well, though it's from Anzu in Heroic Sethekk Halls, he is the summonable boss.
As for trinkets, your Runed Fungalcap needs to be replaced, aim for Argussian Compass from heroic Underbog, but before that Adamantie Figurine from the Shadow Labyrinth (normal) could solve your need to gem for defense.
Your belt can be replaced (keep it for times you need arcane resistance, like in the Magister's Terrace second boss) for something more generic like Sha'tari Vindicator's Waistguard which you gain by doing a chain of quests in Netherstorm, this is the quest for the key to Arcatraz.
As for your spec, it seems quite solid, I'd take out the points from Improved Shield Bash and Improved Revenge and put them into Focused Rage and Improved Thunderclap, I think the damage reduction from improving Thunderclap (add to that the extra threat generated and reduced cost) outweights the damage reduction from stunning the mobs with Improved Revenge (which doesn't work against bosses, unlike Thunderclap), and Improving Shield Bash is quite pointless as most mobs stop casting after you bash their casts.
The point in Ubridled Wrath can better serve you in Improved Demoralizing Roar or Improved Bloodrage in my opinion.
All in all you have quite a good start there, I suggest you try out some of the suggestion people will give you in this threat and then you can decide for yourself what is best for you, do this while practicing on tanking normals, as I don't think your numbers cut it for heroics yet, though soon they will. I imagine regemming and reenchanting will take you there.
As a general note, you have quite alot of resilience, even holding a trinket for it and gemming to get more of it (the bracer gem bonus), resilience offers very little to you, while it's inevitable you get it from PvP items, you should avoid it on the rest of your gear, the damage reduction to DoTs is quite small in comparison of what you could be getting, and you should be crit immune anyhow.
The numbers I'd aim for, if you want to start heroics are ~12.5K health, crit immune (for heroics only 485 defense is needed, for raids 490), 30% dodge+parry at the very least. Your armor seems decent enough.
Once you start heroics, upgrades will come from everywhere, you have SO many ways to spend your badges it's quite sick (badge gear is THAT good). Try to earn a few more from doing the SSO dailies (are they still up? My paytime expired when the isle was roughly 1 month old).
Have fun, and hope I helped a little,
Yuval.
The post was edited like 20 times in a row, to correct many things, mostly links.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 10:10pm by YuvalR
As for enchants, your gear is not enchanted with optimal enchants I'm afraid.
Here is a list of what I recommend:
For head slot - Glyph of the Defender you can buy this at the Cavern of Time when you are revered with the Keepers of time.
For shoulder slot - seeing as you are Aldor your options are Inscription of Warding which you already have, and at exalted can be upgraded to Greater Inscription of Warding.
For cloak slot - 12 defense if defense is needed (it's better to use this enchant for that than gem for it), 12 agility for dodge and crit or 120 armor for the armor. Armor is probably the best option here, though I'm not 100% sure, it IS the cheapest :).
For chest slot -150 health is your best bet, though if defense is needed 15 defense is also an option, tad better than gemming for defense, as 1 stamina=1 defense rating on gems, but with Vitalty maxed 1 stamina=10.5 health, on this enchant you gain 10 health for 1 defense rating.
For bracer slot - 12 stamina is the best bet, but with the option to get 12 defense instead, if needed.
For glove slot - 2% threat is the only real option here.
For leg slot - Clefthide Leg Armor is the economic version, while Nethercleft Leg Armor is the best one.
For boot slot - Boar's Speed though very expensive, 12 stamina should do if you lack the money (or don't want to spend so much on an item you think you'll replace.
For weapon slot - Mongoose is THE option, as expensive as it is. Can be skipped if you think your weapon will be replaced soon.
For shield slot - 18 shield block rate for extra threat, but only when you feel comfortable with your health (which sadly you still shouldn't). Or the one you are using now 18 stamina.
Heavy Knothide Armor Kit and Knothide Armor Kit
can replace any slot (where applicable) if you think it'll take you too long a time to get the enchant itself, but only for that time, it's never the best option.
As for gems, you go for strength, agility and defense rating quite alot it seems.
Strength and agility are not really needed as a Warrior tank, so it's best to gem for something else.
You also gem for every gem bonus, that's not optimal as some of the gem bonuses are really not helpful for you, the shoulder, chest and bracers should be ignored. Some of the more helpful gem bonus can be ignored as well for more stamina if you think you lack in it.
I agree with fromanthebarbarian about Solid Star of Elune being your best bet on gems, but if the bonus from gemming correct is desireable try to use:
For yellow slots - Rigid Dawnstone, Thick Dawnstone or Enduring Talasite. The first will help with threat generation and the next 2 are good for reaching the defense minimum (which you are past).
For red slots - Subtle Living Ruby or Flashling Living Ruby both offer avoidance, while the former gives more avoidance and the latter more threat generation.
For blue slots - Solid Star of Elune should be your ONLY choice. It's the default gem to put when you don't need the socket bonus.
For meta slots, when you get one - Eternal Earthstorm Diamond is a very solid choice, more block value equals more threat from Shield Slam, also the best option to reach defense minimum if you need to gem for it in my opinion, the other option is Powerful Earthstorm Diamond which is great if you are over 490 defense.
Most of your gear is OK, but some items really stick to the eye:
Your ranged weapon is for DPS, better options are Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer but is very expensive or Nightstrike from Priestess Delrissa from The Magisters Terrace, both normal and heroic. She is the "5vs5" boss.The Boomstick is good as well, though it's from Anzu in Heroic Sethekk Halls, he is the summonable boss.
As for trinkets, your Runed Fungalcap needs to be replaced, aim for Argussian Compass from heroic Underbog, but before that Adamantie Figurine from the Shadow Labyrinth (normal) could solve your need to gem for defense.
Your belt can be replaced (keep it for times you need arcane resistance, like in the Magister's Terrace second boss) for something more generic like Sha'tari Vindicator's Waistguard which you gain by doing a chain of quests in Netherstorm, this is the quest for the key to Arcatraz.
As for your spec, it seems quite solid, I'd take out the points from Improved Shield Bash and Improved Revenge and put them into Focused Rage and Improved Thunderclap, I think the damage reduction from improving Thunderclap (add to that the extra threat generated and reduced cost) outweights the damage reduction from stunning the mobs with Improved Revenge (which doesn't work against bosses, unlike Thunderclap), and Improving Shield Bash is quite pointless as most mobs stop casting after you bash their casts.
The point in Ubridled Wrath can better serve you in Improved Demoralizing Roar or Improved Bloodrage in my opinion.
All in all you have quite a good start there, I suggest you try out some of the suggestion people will give you in this threat and then you can decide for yourself what is best for you, do this while practicing on tanking normals, as I don't think your numbers cut it for heroics yet, though soon they will. I imagine regemming and reenchanting will take you there.
As a general note, you have quite alot of resilience, even holding a trinket for it and gemming to get more of it (the bracer gem bonus), resilience offers very little to you, while it's inevitable you get it from PvP items, you should avoid it on the rest of your gear, the damage reduction to DoTs is quite small in comparison of what you could be getting, and you should be crit immune anyhow.
The numbers I'd aim for, if you want to start heroics are ~12.5K health, crit immune (for heroics only 485 defense is needed, for raids 490), 30% dodge+parry at the very least. Your armor seems decent enough.
Once you start heroics, upgrades will come from everywhere, you have SO many ways to spend your badges it's quite sick (badge gear is THAT good). Try to earn a few more from doing the SSO dailies (are they still up? My paytime expired when the isle was roughly 1 month old).
Have fun, and hope I helped a little,
Yuval.
The post was edited like 20 times in a row, to correct many things, mostly links.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 10:10pm by YuvalR
YuvalR wrote:
For cloak slot - 12 defense if defense is needed (it's better to use this enchant for that than gem for it), 12 agility for dodge and crit or 120 armor for the armor. Armor is probably the best option here, though I'm not 100% sure, it IS the cheapest :).
12 DODGE for dodge. 12 agility belongs on a dps cloak. some people consider 120 armor to be the best option if your cloak already has a lot of armor on it, but you'll have to do the math and figure out which one you need more of. generally at lower gear levels, 12 dodge is your best bet.
avoid enchanting anything for defense if you can and try to make up for it with gear. a lot of the badge pieces have TONS of defense rating on them. when everything is sorted out, you shouldn't have anything enchanted solely with defense to make it to the defense cap.
10 stamina to gloves is also viable.
A shield spike also is very very nice.
A shield spike also is very very nice.
Personally I'd prefer a 240 armor patch to gloves over 10 stam for EH purposes, which is the only type of gloves I wouldn't throw threat on.
Thank you for everyone :)
I am sure your tips will help me out, about the gear problem.
I am sure your tips will help me out, about the gear problem.
Quote:
avoid enchanting anything for defense if you can and try to make up for it with gear
actually, given the choice i would take +12 def over +12 dodge most of the time. the actual avoidance is very close between the two and the +12 def just gives you more flexibility with the rest of your gear.
especially since the OP is just barely starting heroics, he won't have access to any badge pieces yet...
Just wanted to say thanks again. Did come changes yesterday and daily HC was easy piece(got my belt;)
got now some more healt and defence is not a problem.
Armory is also updated if want to take a look.
got now some more healt and defence is not a problem.
Armory is also updated if want to take a look.
The gear advice you've gotten is very good. I'd like to take a look at your talents.
Your talent build is pretty solid for an MT raid tank. But for someone who is not at that level yet, you need a build that is going to let you be efficient in 5-mans, and maybe OT for things like Kara.
To that end, I'd suggest the cookie-cutter 12/7/43 build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Li0czZVbZbExoI0zcxst
Anger Management helps with rage retention between pulls, improved TC is a great damage reducer on boss mobs, 2 points in improved demo shout has been shown to be as practically effective as 5 points for most encounters. Yes, you lose a few things in the prot tree, but you also get improved blood rage, which really helps with initial rage for pulls. What you lose really isn't all that useful for 5-man content.
Your talent build is pretty solid for an MT raid tank. But for someone who is not at that level yet, you need a build that is going to let you be efficient in 5-mans, and maybe OT for things like Kara.
To that end, I'd suggest the cookie-cutter 12/7/43 build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Li0czZVbZbExoI0zcxst
Anger Management helps with rage retention between pulls, improved TC is a great damage reducer on boss mobs, 2 points in improved demo shout has been shown to be as practically effective as 5 points for most encounters. Yes, you lose a few things in the prot tree, but you also get improved blood rage, which really helps with initial rage for pulls. What you lose really isn't all that useful for 5-man content.
get rid of that fungalcap - there's lots of better choices.
also, king p posted a good spec to consider - definitely an improvement over what you're running now. due to personal preferences, i would move the 2 points from imp. demo shout to imp. shield bash because i think it's very useful in 5-mans. i would also move 1 from imp. bloodrage to last stand just becuase it's worth the 1 point. 1 point in imp. bloodrage still lets you open with SS.
but imp. TC is a must for 5-man tanking, and once you spec anger management you'll never live without it.
also, king p posted a good spec to consider - definitely an improvement over what you're running now. due to personal preferences, i would move the 2 points from imp. demo shout to imp. shield bash because i think it's very useful in 5-mans. i would also move 1 from imp. bloodrage to last stand just becuase it's worth the 1 point. 1 point in imp. bloodrage still lets you open with SS.
but imp. TC is a must for 5-man tanking, and once you spec anger management you'll never live without it.
marklartank wrote:
but imp. TC is a must for 5-man tanking, and once you spec anger management you'll never live without it.
Imp TC is a must but I disagree on Anger Management. I've tried a prot spec with and without it and I don't really miss it. My rage generation isn't that bad to warrant it.
AM can help at times. In combat it comes out to 20 rage per minute, which can help even though it isn't huge. I used to spec for it constantly, but I phased it out of my spec and honestly don't notice much of a difference. I feel like it helped more in lower content where rage was a bit more difficult to come by. Tanking SWP I don't run into much problem becoming rage starved as hard as I get hit, at least thus far. The same can be said of BT for the most part, but I'm wearing TPS gear in there. As a result, AM for me would be a wasted point better spent elsewhere.
AM, however, can be very useful for something that theorycraft doesn't show. That something is rage decay between pulls. I chain pull to keep rage high, but this is because I have a raid that's accustomed to the pace I set and expects it to happen. If he's doing PUGs, he likely won't have this luxury. He'll have to hold his pace back some to match a group that won't be moving at top speed. As a result, having AM to sustain his rage pool may end up helping out a lot more than it would show on paper.
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 9:04am by FletusSanguine
AM, however, can be very useful for something that theorycraft doesn't show. That something is rage decay between pulls. I chain pull to keep rage high, but this is because I have a raid that's accustomed to the pace I set and expects it to happen. If he's doing PUGs, he likely won't have this luxury. He'll have to hold his pace back some to match a group that won't be moving at top speed. As a result, having AM to sustain his rage pool may end up helping out a lot more than it would show on paper.
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 9:04am by FletusSanguine
AM is an essential 5-man talent simply because of rage decay. The rage generated in combat can be exceptionally usefull for trash that simply doesn't hit you as well. But it's the rage decay that makes you appear to be the "super tank" your PUG has dreamed of.
It probably should not be part of any MT spec. But we're not talking raiding tank here, we're talking newly minted 5-man'er.
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 10:47am by kingpatzer
It probably should not be part of any MT spec. But we're not talking raiding tank here, we're talking newly minted 5-man'er.
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 10:47am by kingpatzer
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