Ok. Bare with me here this might get a little complicated. The basic question is that I cant stand fire anymore and want to go arcane frost. With a few pieces ive picked up and gemming, can I do this without hurting my raid DPS, or overall damage output over normal 8-10 min fight? We are doing T5 content but I dont have 2 pieces yet, but I am hoping I can make the change.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Arygos&n=Zisikpus
There is the start. I am 2/48/11 and want to go to 40/0/21 as the Subject says. I am a bit over hit capped but it is because I JUST bought those boots and dont want to re gem until I know if I can go Arcane or not. Now here are the pieces I have that can go in to replace.
Can buy Merciless Gladiator Spellblade: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=32053
Merciless Gladiator's Endgame http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=31978
I would put 30 Int on the blade.
Have to put on: Scarlet Sin`dori Robes http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=34610
Trial Fire Trousers http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28594
1) If this is feasible, should I regem what I have with +INT gems, +MP5 gems, or +int/mp5 combo gems? Keeping the 80 ish(whatever arcane hit cap is) of course.
2) Should I get the belt of blasting now? I was definitely going to when I had a reason to break the spellfire set, should I do this now anyway if I am going Arcane?
3) If this is too complicated to figure out is there a spreadsheet already pre made I could fiddle with, or are there any arcane frost mages out there pre 2p t5 that can put up the numbers over a 8-10 minute fight? If so, can I grab your armory and some experiances ect on how I can make this switch!
Thanks a ton!
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It'll take me some time to really look over it, but I can give you something for this question here:
http://www.manoutoftime.org/staticpages/index.php/tcom
Play around with it a bit to see how things work out for you.
Zisikpus wrote:
3) If this is too complicated to figure out is there a spreadsheet already pre made I could fiddle with, or are there any arcane frost mages out there pre 2p t5 that can put up the numbers over a 8-10 minute fight? If so, can I grab your armory and some experiances ect on how I can make this switch!
http://www.manoutoftime.org/staticpages/index.php/tcom
Play around with it a bit to see how things work out for you.
Remember that even when spamming frostbolts you'll need less hit(and much much less when using AB), and you may want to keep your hit high enough for that as you'll be entering OOM phases much more often than a T6 geared mage would.
Now, I can't tell you whether or not you'll see an increase or decrease in DPS by switching(A big factor in build effectiveness is you as a player and what build fits you best). However, here are my thoughts as based on your questions.
1)Don't neglect Spirit as well. Granted, this is more something to look for in gear than gems, but it's something to consider.
2)If you have the mats or the gold, by all means, get it. It'll be worth having.
Now, I can't tell you whether or not you'll see an increase or decrease in DPS by switching(A big factor in build effectiveness is you as a player and what build fits you best). However, here are my thoughts as based on your questions.
1)Don't neglect Spirit as well. Granted, this is more something to look for in gear than gems, but it's something to consider.
2)If you have the mats or the gold, by all means, get it. It'll be worth having.
It depends, are you going to be using acrane buffed frostbolts as your main nuke or AB as your main nuke and FB as a mana conserver? The advice for each are completely different. Spirit or int is better than gemming MP5 in terms of mana regeneration since 2.4.
EDIT: oh yeah, you will see a DPS drop pretty much no matter what you do until you get that 2pc T5.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:43am by ocyen
EDIT: oh yeah, you will see a DPS drop pretty much no matter what you do until you get that 2pc T5.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:43am by ocyen
I just did the first four bosses of BT last night [naj -> Gurtogg] as 40/0/21, still using a good deal of my normal raiding gear (didn't regem or anything) but put on my 2x T5.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
edit: wow just realized that I never upgraded the shoulder enchant on those...
Oh, and assume I have a mana attuned band on (not the hyjal one) and darkmoon: crusade on.
http://wowwebstats.com/hkevaqo2vknko
did pretty well, hit 4.2k dps on shade.
Should hopefully get through Illidan tonight.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:44am by Anobix
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:46am by Anobix
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
edit: wow just realized that I never upgraded the shoulder enchant on those...
Oh, and assume I have a mana attuned band on (not the hyjal one) and darkmoon: crusade on.
http://wowwebstats.com/hkevaqo2vknko
did pretty well, hit 4.2k dps on shade.
Should hopefully get through Illidan tonight.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:44am by Anobix
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:46am by Anobix
Quote:
3) If this is too complicated to figure out is there a spreadsheet already pre made I could fiddle with, or are there any arcane frost mages out there pre 2p t5 that can put up the numbers over a 8-10 minute fight? If so, can I grab your armory and some experiances ect on how I can make this switch!
Search Fireangel on the Official wow forums. His sig has a link with some arcane frost info. Keep in mind he is a 2k+ arcane mage, however he is supported with a shammy, spriest, and a few innervates. So take it for what it is worth - mainly how to maintain continuous dps. Greyrest is another Arcane Mage on the WoW forums that posted an in depth thread on endgame arcane. However, after a bit of searching I could find the original post feel free to serch farther if you want. Greyrest if i remember right pushed mor for int/spirit than maximizing spell damage like Fireangel does.
Anyway those are two places to start if you want to investigate on your own.
Doing my best to test it out right now and am trying hard to get this to work.
Im definitely finding popping IV and trinket and arcane blast spamming is quite a mana drain. I dont even mess with Arcane Power. What would be a good rotation? Obviously I am trying to maximize DPS so is a 3 AB then 2 frostbolts then 1 Ab to keep debuff up and do damage the best route? I tried finding some of those helpful hits from previous posts but didnt have any luck.
Im definitely finding popping IV and trinket and arcane blast spamming is quite a mana drain. I dont even mess with Arcane Power. What would be a good rotation? Obviously I am trying to maximize DPS so is a 3 AB then 2 frostbolts then 1 Ab to keep debuff up and do damage the best route? I tried finding some of those helpful hits from previous posts but didnt have any luck.
I Arcane blast until around 10-15% mana and then frostbolt until around 30 or a cooldown is up then AB spam to the same point. When at an opportune time I will pop AB or IV/Trinket. I just have to make sure I don't overlap too much with drums/bloodlust as i break the GCD.
I think the basic principle for arc/frost mages is to get the debuff stacked and never let it fall off. Use frostbolts to conserve mana. There is no set rotation the goal is to only do as few frost bolts as you can. Ideally, end game mages with this spec have more mana incoming than spamming frostbolts. Or atleast it stalls your mana consumption till your mana gem/pot cool down is up.
This gets into "rotations":
http://www.symbioticguild.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2411
This gets into "rotations":
http://www.symbioticguild.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2411
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Arygos&n=Zisikpus
Thats what I've accomplished over the course of a day. Did some kara tonight (just badge farming and picked up the head since no one wants it) and was still on par with our other top DPS doing a bit more than usual myself. I had a shaman and granted the fights can be a bit shorter than normal, but all in all I am going to say that arcane/frost here is very feasable and can put up some good numbers very similar to 2/48/11.
And the whole reason I did this, its so much more fun=)
Edit: obviously im not all the way done and gemmed a lot of INT as opposed to spell damage to be on the safe side. And molten armor is just there cuz I ran a BG to dominate Galv b4 i logged=P
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 1:50am by Zisikpus
Thats what I've accomplished over the course of a day. Did some kara tonight (just badge farming and picked up the head since no one wants it) and was still on par with our other top DPS doing a bit more than usual myself. I had a shaman and granted the fights can be a bit shorter than normal, but all in all I am going to say that arcane/frost here is very feasable and can put up some good numbers very similar to 2/48/11.
And the whole reason I did this, its so much more fun=)
Edit: obviously im not all the way done and gemmed a lot of INT as opposed to spell damage to be on the safe side. And molten armor is just there cuz I ran a BG to dominate Galv b4 i logged=P
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 1:50am by Zisikpus
Just something to keep in mind, I typically think Kara is a poor place to compare specs. Prince and maybe Nightbane are the only fights that are really long enough to get a good comparison, imo. The other bosses tend to die too quickly to get a good feel for arcane's strict mana management practices and fire's Molten Fury range potential. Trash mobs, which should never be used to gage raid effectiveness, will always favor faster casting specs.
It is cool that your liking the respec, and i agree with ya about it being fun. I will be making the switch soon too, but I'm going to wait for the 2pc T5 first.
Edit: what method did you use for spells? The spamming AB till almost empty then FB till mana is built back up, or keeping the AB debuff up 100% the time and weaving in FB to anticipate mana conservation.
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 11:52am by ocyen
It is cool that your liking the respec, and i agree with ya about it being fun. I will be making the switch soon too, but I'm going to wait for the 2pc T5 first.
Edit: what method did you use for spells? The spamming AB till almost empty then FB till mana is built back up, or keeping the AB debuff up 100% the time and weaving in FB to anticipate mana conservation.
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 11:52am by ocyen
I never meant for kara to be a "great" test field your right. But its what I had. Trying Lurker tonight so I will see how that goes.
I read through FireAngel's many posts and it all depends on my groups make up. If I stay similar DPS to 2/48/11 without the t5 that is fine with me.
My rotation was to spam AB's at the begining to judge how the mana consumption was going to be since I am new to this. Pop Gem and right after that popped Icy veins + trinket. I spammed AB's here and hit a potion and then spammed until pretty much OOM. Hit my evocation then went down to about 35% to be safe and tried to keep up 2 AB 2 FB rotation or so until I got a gem. I tried to stay above 30% most of the time so I could constantly cast but keeping the AB debuff up. I was scarce on the use of Arcane Power because I didnt have a shadow priest. My goal here wasnt to start blowing 2/48/11 outa the water, it was to maintain the same without t5 and without a great group make up.
So as FireAngel has said, there is no "rotation" so I just tried to make sure I didnt go oom but kept up the AB debuff. More AB's spammed after a gem or a trinket and if i got lucky with a lot of clearcasts can spam some more.
I read through FireAngel's many posts and it all depends on my groups make up. If I stay similar DPS to 2/48/11 without the t5 that is fine with me.
My rotation was to spam AB's at the begining to judge how the mana consumption was going to be since I am new to this. Pop Gem and right after that popped Icy veins + trinket. I spammed AB's here and hit a potion and then spammed until pretty much OOM. Hit my evocation then went down to about 35% to be safe and tried to keep up 2 AB 2 FB rotation or so until I got a gem. I tried to stay above 30% most of the time so I could constantly cast but keeping the AB debuff up. I was scarce on the use of Arcane Power because I didnt have a shadow priest. My goal here wasnt to start blowing 2/48/11 outa the water, it was to maintain the same without t5 and without a great group make up.
So as FireAngel has said, there is no "rotation" so I just tried to make sure I didnt go oom but kept up the AB debuff. More AB's spammed after a gem or a trinket and if i got lucky with a lot of clearcasts can spam some more.
Here is me as arcane for some other fights, there is potential there but I wasn't wearing the 2x T5 the entire time for mana intensive fights.
Illidan death + Hyjal (first 4): http://wowwebstats.com/jd4djrnywhmjy
RoS, Gorefiend, Mother, and Council: http://wowwebstats.com/v3c326sn2ksmu
Mother was weird for us, she would pick people for Embrace and then air burst them... no chance to survive that. One of our sub-10% wipes she did it in the middle of the raid (same air burst thing).
Illidan death + Hyjal (first 4): http://wowwebstats.com/jd4djrnywhmjy
RoS, Gorefiend, Mother, and Council: http://wowwebstats.com/v3c326sn2ksmu
Mother was weird for us, she would pick people for Embrace and then air burst them... no chance to survive that. One of our sub-10% wipes she did it in the middle of the raid (same air burst thing).
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