Speaking of porting, that's gotta be one of the things I'm most looking forward to. Along with conjuring, which somehow I completely forgot about, and that brought a "Hell yea!" from my lips when it appeared on my training list. Not having to wait for hearth cd and being able to port to any major city is going to be a HUGE boon, IMO. Can't wait for lvl 20; almost there! =)
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 11:08am by Cranntastic
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A Classic Debate: Frost or Fire?Follow
5 posts
My apologies. This medium can be difficult in that we read what we thought someone meant, rather than what they really meant.
Again, if I misconstrued, I apologize.
Again, if I misconstrued, I apologize.
5 posts
Yes, but as it turned out - I need to review the OP's intention before posting again. <g>
5 posts
Be ready to get your wallet out. <g>
Sometimes a short run and taking a bat, boat, or Zeppelin is just fine. <g>
Sometimes a short run and taking a bat, boat, or Zeppelin is just fine. <g>
Was that necessary for 3 disjointed posts? and what is this <g> crap?
Quote:
Be ready to get your wallet out
For teleporting? The cost is minimal. I teleported all over the place while leveling. Made leveling a LOT faster by making travel times almost disappear. Considering that you don't have to buy food or drink...you actually come out on top.
Mages rule!
Fire is always superior in every way. Anyone who tells you different is just saying the opposite of what they really mean.
ocyen wrote:
Fire is always superior in every way. Anyone who tells you different is just saying the opposite of what they really mean.
I think I should spec holy.
I prefer the fire play style to that of frost. Your post implies that you have other high level toons to support leveling your mage. If that is true then the choice can be purely based on which you find suits you. This is also true if you will generally be leveling in a group. If you are going to level mostly solo and will not have the gold to gear up at the AH then I strong recommend fire at least into your 30s depending on the gear you get maybe your 40s. In your lower levels I think you'll find that you can kill further above your level with fire than with frost. If you decide to do a lot of PvP while you level you'll want to go frost, or a hybrid arcane -(frost or fire) sooner.
I've leveled as both and prefer a deep fire spec to level. I'm a bit of a heretic in that FOR LEVELING I prefer to take impact in the first tier. Then I take flame throwing and 3 in impact. Pyro, then burning soul, then finish impact. Then I max master of elements then take blast wave. Then max critical mass and I toss a point in playing with fire, max fire power and take combustion, max molten fury, put 2 points somewhere I go with pyromaniac but blazing speed can be fun then 5 in empowered fireball then dragons breath. By this point if you are still staying with fire you'll have enough feel for the to decide what to do next.
As in all thing opinions vary, but this is my preference with the current talent trees.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 4:10pm by MrFredII
I've leveled as both and prefer a deep fire spec to level. I'm a bit of a heretic in that FOR LEVELING I prefer to take impact in the first tier. Then I take flame throwing and 3 in impact. Pyro, then burning soul, then finish impact. Then I max master of elements then take blast wave. Then max critical mass and I toss a point in playing with fire, max fire power and take combustion, max molten fury, put 2 points somewhere I go with pyromaniac but blazing speed can be fun then 5 in empowered fireball then dragons breath. By this point if you are still staying with fire you'll have enough feel for the to decide what to do next.
As in all thing opinions vary, but this is my preference with the current talent trees.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 4:10pm by MrFredII
MrFredII wrote:
I prefer the fire play style to that of frost. Your post implies that you have other high level toons to support leveling your mage. If that is true then the choice can be purely based on which you find suits you. This is also true if you will generally be leveling in a group. If you are going to level mostly solo and will not have the gold to gear up at the AH then I strong recommend fire at least into your 30s depending on the gear you get maybe your 40s. In your lower levels I think you'll find that you can kill further above your level with fire than with frost. If you decide to do a lot of PvP while you level you'll want to go frost, or a hybrid arcane -(frost or fire) sooner.
I've leveled as both and prefer a deep fire spec to level. I'm a bit of a heretic in that FOR LEVELING I prefer to take impact in the first tier. Then I take flame throwing and 3 in impact. Pyro, then burning soul, then finish impact. Then I max master of elements then take blast wave. Then max critical mass and I toss a point in playing with fire, max fire power and take combustion, max molten fury, put 2 points somewhere I go with pyromaniac but blazing speed can be fun then 5 in empowered fireball then dragons breath. By this point if you are still staying with fire you'll have enough feel for the to decide what to do next.
As in all thing opinions vary, but this is my preference with the current talent trees.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 4:10pm by MrFredII
I've leveled as both and prefer a deep fire spec to level. I'm a bit of a heretic in that FOR LEVELING I prefer to take impact in the first tier. Then I take flame throwing and 3 in impact. Pyro, then burning soul, then finish impact. Then I max master of elements then take blast wave. Then max critical mass and I toss a point in playing with fire, max fire power and take combustion, max molten fury, put 2 points somewhere I go with pyromaniac but blazing speed can be fun then 5 in empowered fireball then dragons breath. By this point if you are still staying with fire you'll have enough feel for the to decide what to do next.
As in all thing opinions vary, but this is my preference with the current talent trees.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 4:10pm by MrFredII
you don't take improved fireball?!
Anobix the Wise wrote:
you don't take improved fireball?!
I like impact better and I find that for leveling and non-raid non-heroic PVE I don't need the .5 sec reduction in casting time. You'll notice that the progression end well short of 70, so at that point I usually end up putting some points in other places like blazing speed or incinerate or maybe elemental precision. I know that I'll respec at 70 so I experiment with some of the other talents that I didn't pick up on the way. Once I hit the level cap I respect to a cookie-cutter EG 2/48/3. If you want improved fireball by all means feel free to take it anywhere in the talent progression. Like I said I'm a heretic and this progression reflects my preference.
Edited, Jul 25th 2008 5:53pm by MrFredII
As I mentioned aforehand, I chose Frost as my spec, but this was before I was hearing all of this "soloing is easier with Fire" talk. Does it really make a massive difference? I will be doing most of my lvling solo (as I just get guildies to run me through instances when necessary), so is Fire actually a better choice? I don't mind dishing out the 1g to make the initial respec... and a lot of people are saying Fire. Any more opinions?
Cranntastic wrote:
As I mentioned aforehand, I chose Frost as my spec, but this was before I was hearing all of this "soloing is easier with Fire" talk. Does it really make a massive difference? I will be doing most of my lvling solo (as I just get guildies to run me through instances when necessary), so is Fire actually a better choice? I don't mind dishing out the 1g to make the initial respec... and a lot of people are saying Fire. Any more opinions?
The fact of the matter is that NO spec is inherently better overall. What matters most is which spec feels right to you. Both builds will kill mobs effectively, and rather quickly, though they do things differently. Fire will give you a small edge on speed. Frost will give you an edge on survivability and control. But in the end, the one that feels best to you is the one you'll be able to do the best with.
That said, frost is a late bloomer. It doesn't really come into its own until you have the talents Frostbite, Ice Shards, and Shatter. So you'll feel weak until then(level 29 to have all 3 maxed out).
I go to Silvermoon because there are less people there and I generally don't have to worry about lag at the AH. Plus there are mailboxes everywhere.
It's one of the nice things about a deserted city. I will probably continue to go there even though WotLK.
It's one of the nice things about a deserted city. I will probably continue to go there even though WotLK.
My personal experience is that at least at level 70 deep frost is what I like most for heroic PvE and questing/grinding because the elemental and shatter provide the damage to drop 2 mobs with 4 spells, while they won't even touch you.
Fire needs too long to build up full dps, and is best with huge amounts of SD, since its the specc that scales best with it. Also crit %. So unless in raid, with loads of buffs that increase crit and SD, with mobs that are not rootable I'd always choose deep frost for PvE. In PvP I often miss some surviveability. If the Ib isn't ready, like it isn't most of the time and someone stuns you after blink you can pretty much say goodbye if more than 1 guy are after you.
40/21/0 or any other version stays behind deep fire in raids, which isn't noticeable in heroic PvE and questing though. In PvP it didn't fulfill my expectation, because eventhough you can dish out a nice nuke every 3 mins, and nuke on for 15 secs if they let you do so, I'm missing the frequent iceblock of deeper frost and a constant way of doing damage in PvP though. Some classes are quite invincible to you if you specc that way. It has to be said, that the specc offers real fun sometimes, and nice numbers in aoe situations.
Deep arcane did too low dps in PvP when I tried it out. I often use arc missiles, and 7-800 dps without any burst x'ept for pom pyro every 3 mins is not what I'm looking for. Also I don't like to expose the arc school to CS-effects. In PvE I have not seriously tried the specc, but some ppl say it is quite enjoyable in PvE gear and 2 pieces t5, both of wich I lack.
17/0/44 Is what most people recommend for PvP, and I do so too. It provides nearly the same DPS and burst as deep frost and the silence comes in really handy vs other mages if you know how to use it. Also the other add from arcane are quite nice.
For leveling I specced fire, since the mana-effectivity is better than in the frost tree, if I remember right. At lower levels you cannot take so nice benefit out of shatter as in lvl 66+. For soloing you need a little skill, but even with fire you can take down 2-3lvl higher elites.
Thats at least what I worked out for myself, hope it helps.
Fire needs too long to build up full dps, and is best with huge amounts of SD, since its the specc that scales best with it. Also crit %. So unless in raid, with loads of buffs that increase crit and SD, with mobs that are not rootable I'd always choose deep frost for PvE. In PvP I often miss some surviveability. If the Ib isn't ready, like it isn't most of the time and someone stuns you after blink you can pretty much say goodbye if more than 1 guy are after you.
40/21/0 or any other version stays behind deep fire in raids, which isn't noticeable in heroic PvE and questing though. In PvP it didn't fulfill my expectation, because eventhough you can dish out a nice nuke every 3 mins, and nuke on for 15 secs if they let you do so, I'm missing the frequent iceblock of deeper frost and a constant way of doing damage in PvP though. Some classes are quite invincible to you if you specc that way. It has to be said, that the specc offers real fun sometimes, and nice numbers in aoe situations.
Deep arcane did too low dps in PvP when I tried it out. I often use arc missiles, and 7-800 dps without any burst x'ept for pom pyro every 3 mins is not what I'm looking for. Also I don't like to expose the arc school to CS-effects. In PvE I have not seriously tried the specc, but some ppl say it is quite enjoyable in PvE gear and 2 pieces t5, both of wich I lack.
17/0/44 Is what most people recommend for PvP, and I do so too. It provides nearly the same DPS and burst as deep frost and the silence comes in really handy vs other mages if you know how to use it. Also the other add from arcane are quite nice.
For leveling I specced fire, since the mana-effectivity is better than in the frost tree, if I remember right. At lower levels you cannot take so nice benefit out of shatter as in lvl 66+. For soloing you need a little skill, but even with fire you can take down 2-3lvl higher elites.
Thats at least what I worked out for myself, hope it helps.
Thank you all for the massive amount of informative replies. With what intelligent responses have been posted, for now I have decided to stick with Frost, and see how it goes from there. I might experiment with Fire once I hit the 60s, but until then, I think I've found my baby =)
Thank you, everyone, once again for all the information!
Thank you, everyone, once again for all the information!
Quote:
for now I have decided to stick with Frost, and see how it goes from there.
Wait until you get your elemental...it'll make it very hard to even think about changing. Mobs start dying way to fast (relative to frost w/o elemental). :)
Long time lurker, first time poster here. My personal experience as a Mage can be summarized in 4 words:
Click.
Click.
Click.
BOOM!
I'm a PoM/Pyro mage. There don't seem to be all that many of us around. We used to be somewhat derisively called "three minute mages". I make no claims to being uberific. I don't raid seriously in this game (did that in EQ and EQ2. Still have nightmares about organizing 70 man open raids for planar flagging. Shudder), and I rarely group anymore. I'm mostly a solo player in PVE, and I do lots of BGs. Dabble in Arena, too, but I'm not good at it.
PoM/Pyro suits me well. I like to see big sexy crit numbers float over my target's head. I like to melt faces in PVP. I particularly like to 2-shot opponents, which I can do sometimes, with a little luck. Other than my really big BOOM every three minutes, I have Slow (41 point arcane talent). Rogues hate me. So do Warriors. Locks own me, unless I catch them by surprise, and get in my big BOOM before they see me.
Other spells I use often--
Fire Blast. Love it. Not as big a BOOM, but it is instant.
Arcane Missles. Quick, hard hitting damage. Good finisher if other instants/cooldowns are not available.
Ice Lance--eh, at least it is instant. Not really a BOOM at all. More or a poof.
Arcane Explosion--the kamikaze gnome, that dives into a big group of hordies, and just AoEs until he dies or everything else does? Yeah, that's me. Bonzai!
In PVE, I do the scorch thing, then PoM/Pyro, Fireball, more scorch, or I spam Arcane Blast, or I spam Arcane Missles. Pretty much anything I do will melt faces. Us gnomes can be whimsical that way.
You're more than welcome to look up my Armory if you want. I wear mostly S1 gear, got S2 pants, working on my S4 gloves in arena, and grinding for the +47 damage trinket. More BOOM = more better.
Us big BOOM and AOE guys, we love us some Pally tankage. Obviously, I can have aggro off any tank, pretty much any time I want it...but I mostly don't want it. Pallys rock. They gather up mobs into nice tight little groups, perfect for AOEing. We leave neat little piles of corpses in the dungeons...not the messy and disorganized clutter some groups leave.
Why yes, my nickname is Boomer. How did you guess?
Edited, Jul 28th 2008 5:55pm by Kahbueme
Click.
Click.
Click.
BOOM!
I'm a PoM/Pyro mage. There don't seem to be all that many of us around. We used to be somewhat derisively called "three minute mages". I make no claims to being uberific. I don't raid seriously in this game (did that in EQ and EQ2. Still have nightmares about organizing 70 man open raids for planar flagging. Shudder), and I rarely group anymore. I'm mostly a solo player in PVE, and I do lots of BGs. Dabble in Arena, too, but I'm not good at it.
PoM/Pyro suits me well. I like to see big sexy crit numbers float over my target's head. I like to melt faces in PVP. I particularly like to 2-shot opponents, which I can do sometimes, with a little luck. Other than my really big BOOM every three minutes, I have Slow (41 point arcane talent). Rogues hate me. So do Warriors. Locks own me, unless I catch them by surprise, and get in my big BOOM before they see me.
Other spells I use often--
Fire Blast. Love it. Not as big a BOOM, but it is instant.
Arcane Missles. Quick, hard hitting damage. Good finisher if other instants/cooldowns are not available.
Ice Lance--eh, at least it is instant. Not really a BOOM at all. More or a poof.
Arcane Explosion--the kamikaze gnome, that dives into a big group of hordies, and just AoEs until he dies or everything else does? Yeah, that's me. Bonzai!
In PVE, I do the scorch thing, then PoM/Pyro, Fireball, more scorch, or I spam Arcane Blast, or I spam Arcane Missles. Pretty much anything I do will melt faces. Us gnomes can be whimsical that way.
You're more than welcome to look up my Armory if you want. I wear mostly S1 gear, got S2 pants, working on my S4 gloves in arena, and grinding for the +47 damage trinket. More BOOM = more better.
Us big BOOM and AOE guys, we love us some Pally tankage. Obviously, I can have aggro off any tank, pretty much any time I want it...but I mostly don't want it. Pallys rock. They gather up mobs into nice tight little groups, perfect for AOEing. We leave neat little piles of corpses in the dungeons...not the messy and disorganized clutter some groups leave.
Why yes, my nickname is Boomer. How did you guess?
Edited, Jul 28th 2008 5:55pm by Kahbueme
Kahbueme wrote:
Ice Lance--eh, at least it is instant. Not really a BOOM at all. More or a poof.
lol. Thank you for that. I got a good chuckle.
Kahbueme wrote:
Arcane Explosion--the kamikaze gnome, that dives into a big group of hordies, and just AoEs until he dies or everything else does? Yeah, that's me. Bonzai!
Another lol, hehe. I hate you when you're against me, but love you when you run in ahead of me. You rock.
YJMark wrote:
Wait until you get your elemental...it'll make it very hard to even think about changing. Mobs start dying way to fast (relative to frost w/o elemental). :)
This is one thing I'm sorta looking forward to, as well! Got my Teleport recently, so I can scratch that one off my "Can't wait until" list =) Do you use the elemental as a tank, or like a backup caster? I've never really seen Mages using them for an extended period of time. Sorta curious!
I don't have the big green guy. But from what I've seen, he ain't much of a tank, anyway. More like a big watery green damage over time deal, until somebody dispells, banishes, or kills it, or the time runs out. They spam frost bolts and novas, mostly. If you want to see them in action, do a few 70s bracket BGs. Lots of mages use them.
Kahbueme wrote:
But from what I've seen, he ain't much of a tank, anyway.
He's really not meant to be. He's more of a way to help increase your kiting and burst capabilities, though if you use him properly in conjunction with ice block, you can make enemies ping pong between you and him a couple times, seriously mitigating the damage you take.
Quote:
He's really not meant to be. He's more of a way to help increase your kiting and burst capabilities, though if you use him properly in conjunction with ice block, you can make enemies ping pong between you and him a couple times, seriously mitigating the damage you take.
Yeah, it would be cool to have, but I just can't give up my PoM/Pyro. Love the clickclickclickBOOM thing. I have a mageling in training that's going to go Frost to see how that side of the Mage house rolls. Level 8 atm. At my current rate of leveling alts, the mageling should have the Water Elemental by 2012. 2014, latest.
Oh. Wait. I gotta level my druid, and a death knight, too. OK, 2020, if I live that long, and I'll have my own Tulane Fan as a pet.
I'm 40/21/0 and disliking it. I'm going back to 12/46/3 soon.
The reason is because Blast Wave and Dragon's Breath are great solo/questing options, which I still do all the time at 70.
They've more frequent bursts than the PoMPyro, and they both have control features (the disorient, which I use in 5-mans all the time when the healer pulls aggro off a crappy tank, of Dragon's Breath is very nice).
In 40/21/0, I have nearly the same damage Fireball as 12/46/3, but with stronger crits and less of them. Higher mana regeneration, but less control tools. And it's the control tools that I like.
Now, for the OP, I'd suggest trying Arcane. I hear people more frequently, recently, leveling Arcane. With Mage Armor, Improved Mana Shield, Improved Arcane Missiles, and Arcane Meditation, soloing isn't too shabby apparently. But I've no personal experiences with it.
I do have personal experiences with leveling fire and leveling frost, and I liked fire better, though both are reasonably viable. Whether Fire or Frost (though I've read you picked Frost already), you will generally attack with your main nuke 2-3 times, Frost Nova when they're closeby, retreat some steps, cast nuke, and Fire Blast or use the wand to finish off, depending on how much health they've left.
The reason is because Blast Wave and Dragon's Breath are great solo/questing options, which I still do all the time at 70.
They've more frequent bursts than the PoMPyro, and they both have control features (the disorient, which I use in 5-mans all the time when the healer pulls aggro off a crappy tank, of Dragon's Breath is very nice).
In 40/21/0, I have nearly the same damage Fireball as 12/46/3, but with stronger crits and less of them. Higher mana regeneration, but less control tools. And it's the control tools that I like.
Now, for the OP, I'd suggest trying Arcane. I hear people more frequently, recently, leveling Arcane. With Mage Armor, Improved Mana Shield, Improved Arcane Missiles, and Arcane Meditation, soloing isn't too shabby apparently. But I've no personal experiences with it.
I do have personal experiences with leveling fire and leveling frost, and I liked fire better, though both are reasonably viable. Whether Fire or Frost (though I've read you picked Frost already), you will generally attack with your main nuke 2-3 times, Frost Nova when they're closeby, retreat some steps, cast nuke, and Fire Blast or use the wand to finish off, depending on how much health they've left.
The Water Elemental (if I remember correctly) increased by DPS by about 40%. Between you and the elemental hitting the mob, that mob dies very very fast. Puts you very close to Fire killing speed. Between the freezing/Shatter/etc..., it's awesome.
However, the Elemental only lasts for 45 seconds, and has a 3 min CD. So you have to go 2:15 w/o it. :(
However, the Elemental only lasts for 45 seconds, and has a 3 min CD. So you have to go 2:15 w/o it. :(
Raglu wrote:
... you will generally attack with your main nuke 2-3 times, Frost Nova when they're closeby, retreat some steps, cast nuke, and Fire Blast or use the wand to finish off, depending on how much health they've left.
lol, funny, that's exactly how I've been playing without reading anything about playstyle. I'm glad I have it down =)
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