Hey guys, just made a Mage (I've never played one past 20 and am relatively, ok, completely new to the class), and was just wondering what your thoughts were on the age-old argument of Frost vs Fire? Post your favorite spec and your reasoning, and then follow up by letting me know what you think about the opposite spec. Thanks a lot! This will help me out tons.
Sincerely,
Floyd!
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A Classic Debate: Frost or Fire?Follow
I'm willing to bet that a "Classic Debate" has a whole bunch of theads here already with "Classic Answers"
DarkHybridX wrote:
I'm willing to bet that a "Classic Debate" has a whole bunch of theads here already with "Classic Answers"
pretty much.
my perspective is frost for pvp and undergeared leveling, fire for raiding.
If someone gets bored and wants to find some links to some old debates about frost vs fire, I could always add them to the sticky(or Anobix can do it).
The "The Greatest Mage Post Ever" does make a very awesome relation of the builds according to their best use tho, so I think that's good enough. But for a direct comparation thread, I think something more elaborated then a discussion should be created. A compilation of the conclusions. In the end, it'll problably be almost like a copy/pase of MageSock's talent discussion part of this thread.
But it seems to me that Cranntastic actually wants to know a more personal point of view. Alas, even tho some builds are better then others for a particular circumstances (say 2/48/11 for early raiding for example compared to a frost build), some people still prefer frost, for reasons that may be beyond some of us, which is what I think Crann wants to know.
If that's the case, here goes my answer:
I like frost and fire equally, and every once in a while i bounce between them simply to change the play style a bit for a while. For raiding, I'm usually 2/48/11. I don't see much reason to rely on the über protective capabilities of a frost build for it.
But for anything else, I goes as my mood tells me.
I just read another post (pretty sure it was on the solo mage thread) that shows a nice view of the specs.
Ice gives a lot of confort, because of his effect over the enemy's movement, and because of Coldsnap. Also the double elemental should give you the speed boost to match fire's every once in a while, just as much as a better short range efficiency.
Fire on the other hand is just brutal. You don't have much time to think when playing fire, you just have to play offensively, and yet be very reactive if things don't go as planned. I find it very exciting for that reason.
But idk, I'm rather new to 70 and raiding, so I admit I may be totally off with my view. That's just how I feel when playing the specs with my current gear.
But it seems to me that Cranntastic actually wants to know a more personal point of view. Alas, even tho some builds are better then others for a particular circumstances (say 2/48/11 for early raiding for example compared to a frost build), some people still prefer frost, for reasons that may be beyond some of us, which is what I think Crann wants to know.
If that's the case, here goes my answer:
I like frost and fire equally, and every once in a while i bounce between them simply to change the play style a bit for a while. For raiding, I'm usually 2/48/11. I don't see much reason to rely on the über protective capabilities of a frost build for it.
But for anything else, I goes as my mood tells me.
I just read another post (pretty sure it was on the solo mage thread) that shows a nice view of the specs.
Ice gives a lot of confort, because of his effect over the enemy's movement, and because of Coldsnap. Also the double elemental should give you the speed boost to match fire's every once in a while, just as much as a better short range efficiency.
Fire on the other hand is just brutal. You don't have much time to think when playing fire, you just have to play offensively, and yet be very reactive if things don't go as planned. I find it very exciting for that reason.
But idk, I'm rather new to 70 and raiding, so I admit I may be totally off with my view. That's just how I feel when playing the specs with my current gear.
I'm a big fan of the 0/0/0 build... and remember: Mana is a crutch.
To the OP - here's the short answer for leveling:
Fire - kill things VERY fast. Make some mistakes, and you might get killed (depending on how good you are).
Frost - kill things kind of fast. Make some mistakes, and you'll survive.
Fire - kill things VERY fast. Make some mistakes, and you might get killed (depending on how good you are).
Frost - kill things kind of fast. Make some mistakes, and you'll survive.
Frost is fun, but having never run frost prior to having the Water Ele, I can't say how fun it is without him.
Try both - figure out which you like. I loved fire till I tried frost. Now I love frost. I'm getting ready to spec 40ish Arcane...
Try both - figure out which you like. I loved fire till I tried frost. Now I love frost. I'm getting ready to spec 40ish Arcane...
Both are fun, leveling wise.
After being Frost from 10-47, I respecced fire and laughed my *** off the first time I got a pyroblast to crit. Big numbers (For me at the time, 1K pyro crit), and then the ignite.
I also like the misinterpretations; I read "Frost is more mana friendly", but I was clueless to the fact that this was refering primarily to raids. I noted as fire, mana use was roughly equal to frost in the sense that things die quicker with fire.
As far as my favorite spec, it's 40/0/21 for Frost. I love being able to use my "Suck on This" Macro, which is basically Spell Power, Icy Veins, Berserking, and the Icon. It is glorious on two boss fights; Curator and Netherspite. Also, it brings a high mana pool and extra crit damage. Using it, I'm at approximately 1100 unbuffed for spell damage for T4 content. It's worked so well I'll probably continue it's use in Lich King (up to certain points; Arcane might be the way to go for raids then).
After being Frost from 10-47, I respecced fire and laughed my *** off the first time I got a pyroblast to crit. Big numbers (For me at the time, 1K pyro crit), and then the ignite.
I also like the misinterpretations; I read "Frost is more mana friendly", but I was clueless to the fact that this was refering primarily to raids. I noted as fire, mana use was roughly equal to frost in the sense that things die quicker with fire.
As far as my favorite spec, it's 40/0/21 for Frost. I love being able to use my "Suck on This" Macro, which is basically Spell Power, Icy Veins, Berserking, and the Icon. It is glorious on two boss fights; Curator and Netherspite. Also, it brings a high mana pool and extra crit damage. Using it, I'm at approximately 1100 unbuffed for spell damage for T4 content. It's worked so well I'll probably continue it's use in Lich King (up to certain points; Arcane might be the way to go for raids then).
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
I use to be completely focused on frost, i pretty much leveled 10-70 as frost besides a couple of moments where i went fire.....with frost you can survive through most battles just because there are so many tools to work with....fire on the other hand just kills so quickly that usually survival is not an issue since almost every mob dies within a few spells....anyways when i got to 70 and started grinding honor for pvp gear i realized very quick that with frost i can slow the enemy down very well but could not always get the kills i wanted...so i switched to fire and found that my survivability went down considerably, but my kills and dmg went through the roof...plus fire mages in pvp still get ice block just not as often as a frostie.....and Dragon's breath, blast wave, impact, and blazing speed all give you enough stuns and tools to work with in pvp.....so really no matter if you are fire or frost both work equally well in pve or pvp settings it just really comes down to your playstyle and preference.
sbrubles wrote:
But it seems to me that Cranntastic actually wants to know a more personal point of view. Alas, even tho some builds are better then others for a particular circumstances (say 2/48/11 for early raiding for example compared to a frost build), some people still prefer frost, for reasons that may be beyond some of us, which is what I think Crann wants to know.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner! I don't want to know the "Go such and such spec to deal damage, and this and that spec for survivability" cookie cutter walkthroughs. I want personal experiences, players' thoughts, and some in-depth conversation about the two. The only end-game classes I've played have been melee (excluding Paladin, being melee and magic), and I'm pretty sure Paladin's a different magic aspect than Mage ;) So I'm looking for honest-to-goodness, wholehearted advice from you knowledgeable Mages out there! Let me hear it guys!
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 10:59am by Cranntastic
Dude... just read some of the other posts and the sticky. You'll find more out about fire and frost than you ever wanted to know. There is very little that can be said on the subject that hasn't been hashed out in great, exhaustive detail already.
Quote:
Dude... just read some of the other posts and the sticky. You'll find more out about fire and frost than you ever wanted to know. There is very little that can be said on the subject that hasn't been hashed out in great, exhaustive detail already.
Agreed. A lot of effort has been put into the bazillion other posts that went through this exercise. That is why you're not getting any good responses.
Having the same discussion over and over and over becomes mind numbing. I'm sure if you look in the past 5 pages of posts, you will probably find about a dozen different discussions on this.
Sorry...
9 posts
Or just go fire and tear thru mobs who cares if you have to drink a little more just stack a bunch of int.
#15REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 23 2008 at 5:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) All I wanted was a little discussion. But fine, if you guys don't want to talk about it, I'll go somewhere else for intelligent conversation.
Quote:
All I wanted was a little discussion. But fine, if you guys don't want to talk about it, I'll go somewhere else for intelligent conversation.
lol. Were this the o-boards, there'd be a billion or so 'qq more n00b' type quotes. We tend not to do that kind of thing around here. Actually, you're not asking us for intelligent conversation, you're asking us to repost all of our intelligent conversations in your thread so you don't have to actually go to any of the trouble of reading the rest of the intelligent conversations that we've already had.
Fair enough. Then let the thread drop, and I'll go read all the other threads =\
5 posts
I can feel your pain.
I'm a WoW Neebie (< 2 months) and a 1st-time 40 Mage. I was talked into WoW by friends who all have at a minimum 1.5 to 2 years plus experience, are 70s, and on their 3rd or 4th alternates. Their advice has been helpful (if not invaluable). But with Fire or Frost? All have been equally un-helpful. <g>
They kept telling me the same things you are hearing here. It was annoying as it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I wanted somebody to tell me exactly what I should be doing. But I finally figured it out - they can't do that, nor can anyone else - because like everyone is telling you - it DEPENDS.
Just as you are a unique person so is your character. The finest assortment of Frost talents will do you no good if you are not a Frost kind of guy. But it goes beyond just one or the other - what kind of quests do you like? Do you solo, or do you always run with a group? What's your race? (It makes a difference - I'm Undead so I love water sports for example). The same with Arcane or Fire. How do you learn what fits? You just have to try it and see. Period.
Sorry there isn't a solid guide. And as you will learn later - that is what makes WoW so much fun.
[PS: I'm primarily Fire, because I'm sneaky, mostly solo, like putting pounds of hurt from long distance, and then either dancing for joy or running for my life. But that kind of life isn't for everyone. <g>]
I'm a WoW Neebie (< 2 months) and a 1st-time 40 Mage. I was talked into WoW by friends who all have at a minimum 1.5 to 2 years plus experience, are 70s, and on their 3rd or 4th alternates. Their advice has been helpful (if not invaluable). But with Fire or Frost? All have been equally un-helpful. <g>
They kept telling me the same things you are hearing here. It was annoying as it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I wanted somebody to tell me exactly what I should be doing. But I finally figured it out - they can't do that, nor can anyone else - because like everyone is telling you - it DEPENDS.
Just as you are a unique person so is your character. The finest assortment of Frost talents will do you no good if you are not a Frost kind of guy. But it goes beyond just one or the other - what kind of quests do you like? Do you solo, or do you always run with a group? What's your race? (It makes a difference - I'm Undead so I love water sports for example). The same with Arcane or Fire. How do you learn what fits? You just have to try it and see. Period.
Sorry there isn't a solid guide. And as you will learn later - that is what makes WoW so much fun.
[PS: I'm primarily Fire, because I'm sneaky, mostly solo, like putting pounds of hurt from long distance, and then either dancing for joy or running for my life. But that kind of life isn't for everyone. <g>]
Quote:
I can feel your pain.
I'm a WoW Neebie (< 2 months) and a 1st-time 40 Mage. I was talked into WoW by friends who all have at a minimum 1.5 to 2 years plus experience, are 70s, and on their 3rd or 4th alternates. Their advice has been helpful (if not invaluable). But with Fire or Frost? All have been equally un-helpful. <g>
They kept telling me the same things you are hearing here. It was annoying as it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I wanted somebody to tell me exactly what I should be doing. But I finally figured it out - they can't do that, nor can anyone else - because like everyone is telling you - it DEPENDS.
Just as you are a unique person so is your character. The finest assortment of Frost talents will do you no good if you are not a Frost kind of guy. But it goes beyond just one or the other - what kind of quests do you like? Do you solo, or do you always run with a group? What's your race? (It makes a difference - I'm Undead so I love water sports for example). The same with Arcane or Fire. How do you learn what fits? You just have to try it and see. Period.
Sorry there isn't a solid guide. And as you will learn later - that is what makes WoW so much fun.
I'm a WoW Neebie (< 2 months) and a 1st-time 40 Mage. I was talked into WoW by friends who all have at a minimum 1.5 to 2 years plus experience, are 70s, and on their 3rd or 4th alternates. Their advice has been helpful (if not invaluable). But with Fire or Frost? All have been equally un-helpful. <g>
They kept telling me the same things you are hearing here. It was annoying as it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I wanted somebody to tell me exactly what I should be doing. But I finally figured it out - they can't do that, nor can anyone else - because like everyone is telling you - it DEPENDS.
Just as you are a unique person so is your character. The finest assortment of Frost talents will do you no good if you are not a Frost kind of guy. But it goes beyond just one or the other - what kind of quests do you like? Do you solo, or do you always run with a group? What's your race? (It makes a difference - I'm Undead so I love water sports for example). The same with Arcane or Fire. How do you learn what fits? You just have to try it and see. Period.
Sorry there isn't a solid guide. And as you will learn later - that is what makes WoW so much fun.
Very nice response. This is your first post?
Rolf, I am in no way looking for people to tell me what to do... not in any of my posts did I even allude to that. I'm simply looking for personal experiences and thoughts. Not a guide. Not strats. Not even so much advice, just what people think of the two! But whatever, no one here wants to even talk about their Mage, so we should let this thread drop already.
Personally I love both fire and frost, and I'm really sort of struggling as to which tailoring specialty to take because of that!
Fire is awesome power: bang bang your dead! It is a blast, literally and figuratively.
Frost is awesome control. I have so many "get out of jail free cards" that I am close to un-killable while questing.
They are very different types of play style: fire is massive offensive power, but you have to approach each encounter defensively, because even a single add can really ruin your day; while frost is much more about finesse, but you can be relatively aggressive in approaching each encounter, 1, 2, or even 3 adds aren't a problem.
Fire is awesome power: bang bang your dead! It is a blast, literally and figuratively.
Frost is awesome control. I have so many "get out of jail free cards" that I am close to un-killable while questing.
They are very different types of play style: fire is massive offensive power, but you have to approach each encounter defensively, because even a single add can really ruin your day; while frost is much more about finesse, but you can be relatively aggressive in approaching each encounter, 1, 2, or even 3 adds aren't a problem.
I actually have a personal, unreasonable attraction to frost. :) I don't know why, exactly. I mean, I'm probably a little more afraid of fire irl than most, having gone through a house-fire once, but I still like bonfires irl, and I love using the fire aoe on my lock. Maybe it's because I'm just a stubborn ***, and when I see people say that fire is better later, something inside me rebels, and I think, eh, maybe I can keep doing frost. But logically I know that I will probably end up doing fire later. :) Maybe sooner, who knows? I just love frost!
There's a personal response for ya. :)
Trill
There's a personal response for ya. :)
Trill
Haha, thank you guys, finally some personal experience that I was talking about =) I ended up choosing Frost, as I'm leaning towards this whole control aspect. I'm used to tanking and melee, so I think Frost is a good choice for me, as it gives me options to get out of any sticky situations I magic myself into ;)
I've always been attracted to fire (odd considering my character's name is Winter) and it's a comfortable build for me. Everytime I am frost, I just cringe. Last time I was frost was my first A'lar kill many moons ago and I couldn't wait to port to Silvermoon and spec back to fire.
Princess Kyrin wrote:
I've always been attracted to fire (odd considering my character's name is Winter) and it's a comfortable build for me. Everytime I am frost, I just cringe. Last time I was frost was my first A'lar kill many moons ago and I couldn't wait to port to Silvermoon and spec back to fire.
Silvermoon eh? Never really hear about a person porting back to there it is normally UC/Org (I always go to Org out of habit).
Anobix the Wise wrote:
Princess Kyrin wrote:
I've always been attracted to fire (odd considering my character's name is Winter) and it's a comfortable build for me. Everytime I am frost, I just cringe. Last time I was frost was my first A'lar kill many moons ago and I couldn't wait to port to Silvermoon and spec back to fire.
Silvermoon eh? Never really hear about a person porting back to there it is normally UC/Org (I always go to Org out of habit).
I like Silvermoon.
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