Savagery for the +70 attack power or good old +35 AGI?
I'm BM spec - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Snowlili
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What's the better chantFollow
For that weapon, savagery. 35 Agi is a little steep in price for all the mats. I would save 35 Agi for the S3 Axe or maybe Legacy.
Shoot - my profile hasn't updated yet - I'm weilding http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=34014;source=live
For that, 35 Agi, Hands down.
I have that with savagery and am converting to the +35agi here soon. Just put 2 +30 INT on my S2 1hd's so gotta get mats for the +35agi
Agi FTW
You could get 148(137 if you take AGI on gloves) AP and 30(45 with 15 to gloves) AGI with some relatively cheap enchants.
+6 Stats to chest
28 Ap to shoulders
24 AP to wrists
26 AP to gloves or even better 15 AGI(pretty good gloves)
12 AGI to cloak
40 AP and 10 crit to legs
12 AGI to boots
+10 damage scope on bow (you should get better soon from Kara or badges)
Add these to your +35 AGI on that sweet axe and you will be a dps monster.
+6 Stats to chest
28 Ap to shoulders
24 AP to wrists
26 AP to gloves or even better 15 AGI(pretty good gloves)
12 AGI to cloak
40 AP and 10 crit to legs
12 AGI to boots
+10 damage scope on bow (you should get better soon from Kara or badges)
Add these to your +35 AGI on that sweet axe and you will be a dps monster.
Woot! Fantastic advice all around - rate up to Sweathog for the slot by slot breakdown to boot!
On the INT suggestions - I have occassionally seen hunters taking INT buffs on their gear and rather wondered about that - is the idea to have more mana for special shots and a higher chance to crit with them (are the special shots considered spell crits or ranged crits?)?
I'm sure there's an uber thread with the debate somewhere, so what's the preference - AGI, AP or crit?
While we're at it, what's the AGI to crit and attack power ratio - ie/1 point of AGI = X crit and Y AP?
On the INT suggestions - I have occassionally seen hunters taking INT buffs on their gear and rather wondered about that - is the idea to have more mana for special shots and a higher chance to crit with them (are the special shots considered spell crits or ranged crits?)?
I'm sure there's an uber thread with the debate somewhere, so what's the preference - AGI, AP or crit?
While we're at it, what's the AGI to crit and attack power ratio - ie/1 point of AGI = X crit and Y AP?
Agi>all
I can't recall the crit ratio but I do know that one agility is one AP.
I can't recall the crit ratio but I do know that one agility is one AP.
Agi stacking has been deemed by those that know to be better at somewhere around 300 tooltip DPS (you are at 328). I believe that you should get AGI gems always (as they are about the same price as AP equivalent) and AP enchants on stuff if it is going to be replaced soon. Agi enchants always are more expensive (double the large prismatics, primal air, ect). For instance your T4 gloves should probably get the AGI enchant as they will likely be around for awhile. AGI adds to AP, crit, dodge, armor and scales with blessing of kings.
Intel is stacked by Arena hunters who are playing mana drain games or by MM hunters who should respec and stack AGI (careful aim talent increases AP by up to 45% of intellect-reason MM RAP is so much higher than BM).
It is also good that you are almost hitcapped, that is important too.
Also, I see alchemy. I made the assassin's stone yesterday it is awesome. I know losing the hit from Romulo's will hurt, but I can say this +4AGI-+4 Hit in red sockets can make up for it and 108 RAP is huge.
Edited to reflect correct info on careful aim.
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 9:49am by Sweathog
Intel is stacked by Arena hunters who are playing mana drain games or by MM hunters who should respec and stack AGI (careful aim talent increases AP by up to 45% of intellect-reason MM RAP is so much higher than BM).
It is also good that you are almost hitcapped, that is important too.
Also, I see alchemy. I made the assassin's stone yesterday it is awesome. I know losing the hit from Romulo's will hurt, but I can say this +4AGI-+4 Hit in red sockets can make up for it and 108 RAP is huge.
Edited to reflect correct info on careful aim.
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 9:49am by Sweathog
1 Agi= .025% to crit at level 70.
Eep! English please! O_O
Sorry, but I've only really looked at the basic stuff - damage and crit % when getting gear - STA, health and AC have always been secondary considerations (unless I lose a boat-load for only a small dam/crit boost) so alot of the jargon you're tossing about is beyond me.
I'm not adverse to understanding it though so I would appreciate a layman's version of a lot of what you just said.
OK, what's that mean?
The gems were more opportunity selections then anything - didn't want to bust the bank on them but was willing to spend some cash.
Those will be upgraded pretty soon actually but I will go for the AGI chant at least now that I know its the way to go.
OK - not my speed so no problem.
Hitcapped?
I do intend to make the assassin stone - just need the @#$% lower city rep to make the intermediate one first. >_<
What's 108 RAP?
Sorry, but I've only really looked at the basic stuff - damage and crit % when getting gear - STA, health and AC have always been secondary considerations (unless I lose a boat-load for only a small dam/crit boost) so alot of the jargon you're tossing about is beyond me.
I'm not adverse to understanding it though so I would appreciate a layman's version of a lot of what you just said.
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Agi stacking has been deemed by those that know to be better at somewhere around 300 tooltip DPS (you are at 328).
OK, what's that mean?
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I believe that you should get AGI gems always (as they are about the same price as AP equivalent) and AP enchants on stuff if it is going to be replaced soon. Agi enchants always are more expensive (double the large prismatics, primal air, ect).
The gems were more opportunity selections then anything - didn't want to bust the bank on them but was willing to spend some cash.
Quote:
For instance your T4 gloves should probably get the AGI enchant as they will likely be around for awhile. AGI adds to AP, crit, dodge, armor and scales with blessing of kings.
Those will be upgraded pretty soon actually but I will go for the AGI chant at least now that I know its the way to go.
Quote:
Intel is stacked by Arena hunters who are playing mana drain games or by MM hunters who should respec and stack AGI (careful aim talent increases AP by up to 40% of intellect-reason MM RAP is so much higher than BM).
OK - not my speed so no problem.
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It is also good that you are almost hitcapped, that is important too.
Hitcapped?
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Also, I see alchemy. I made the assassin's stone yesterday it is awesome. I know losing the hit from Romulo's will hurt, but I can say this +4AGI-+4 Hit in red sockets can make up for it and 108 RAP is huge.
I do intend to make the assassin stone - just need the @#$% lower city rep to make the intermediate one first. >_<
What's 108 RAP?
Scholar
17 posts
Posting from work (again) so excuse my tardy English lol.
Tooltip DPS would be the damage per second you get when you mouse over your ranged damage (the 683-792 part). Once that breaches 300 most people seem to agree (and the math supports) that gemming Agi is of far more benefit than Attack Power.
Hit capped refers to your hit rating (currently 132), once that hits the 142 (If I recall correctly) mark you become what is referred to as “Hit cappedâ€. Basically meaning your shots hardly ever miss even the most evasive of raid bosses :p A must have if you are considering a raiding career at any point in the future.
108 RAP is simple enough.. 108 Ranged Attack power.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:23pm by Vagrantbond
Tooltip DPS would be the damage per second you get when you mouse over your ranged damage (the 683-792 part). Once that breaches 300 most people seem to agree (and the math supports) that gemming Agi is of far more benefit than Attack Power.
Hit capped refers to your hit rating (currently 132), once that hits the 142 (If I recall correctly) mark you become what is referred to as “Hit cappedâ€. Basically meaning your shots hardly ever miss even the most evasive of raid bosses :p A must have if you are considering a raiding career at any point in the future.
108 RAP is simple enough.. 108 Ranged Attack power.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 11:23pm by Vagrantbond
Your gem choices are fine. I often regem a couple of pieces of gear when I pick a new shiny, as most upgrades are not perfect upgrades(ie tons more AGI and AP but a loss of hit). I was pointing out that at your gear level(which is not that much different than mine BTW) +4Hit +4AGI are probably the best bang for your buck in yellow and maybe some red sockets. Especially when you are dumping 35 hit when you replace romulo's vial with the assassin's stone.
Are you buying the gauntlets of rapidity? T4 gloves are pretty good but I found the legs to be a much bigger upgrade(and worth putting nethercobra on) and every badge thread on here will tell you to get the chicken stick first for max DPS increase. Of course the badge gloves are awesome.
I have not met many Hunters that lack lower city rep, did you not lust after the sonic spear?
Edited to add: 40 AGI = 1% chance to crit = 14 crit rating but crit is nothing something you really worry about, passive gear crit and agi gems/enchants will keep you in business. I have never seen anyone say you should gem for crit(plenty of people running around with purple gems that have this and AP on it though)
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 10:07am by Sweathog
Are you buying the gauntlets of rapidity? T4 gloves are pretty good but I found the legs to be a much bigger upgrade(and worth putting nethercobra on) and every badge thread on here will tell you to get the chicken stick first for max DPS increase. Of course the badge gloves are awesome.
I have not met many Hunters that lack lower city rep, did you not lust after the sonic spear?
Edited to add: 40 AGI = 1% chance to crit = 14 crit rating but crit is nothing something you really worry about, passive gear crit and agi gems/enchants will keep you in business. I have never seen anyone say you should gem for crit(plenty of people running around with purple gems that have this and AP on it though)
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 10:07am by Sweathog
I always gem +8 agility. I have a few +16 AP but they were for lack of better pickings. I also have some epic ones I've picked up from heroics, they're decent.
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Tooltip DPS would be the damage per second you get when you mouse over your ranged damage (the 683-792 part). Once that breaches 300 most people seem to agree (and the math supports) that gemming Agi is of far more benefit than Attack Power.
OK, so I'm at 328.5 right now and thus plenty good for DPS by that standard.
Is this because extra attack power wont beef up DPS enough to make a difference at this point or because jacking up my crit will give me a better return on overall DPS?
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Hit capped refers to your hit rating (currently 132), once that hits the 142 (If I recall correctly) mark you become what is referred to as “Hit cappedâ€. Basically meaning your shots hardly ever miss even the most evasive of raid bosses :p A must have if you are considering a raiding career at any point in the future.
Ah, OK - never had anyone discuss the importance of hit rating - lol - believe it or not, but I actually got the vial for the proc - didn't know that the hit rating was so useful.
This is an alt and as such, the guild inevitably prefers that I OT with my feral in raids. The result is that it mainly BGs - is that 142 rating as important for BGs as it is raids? Also, does AGI contribute towards hit rating?
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108 RAP is simple enough.. 108 Ranged Attack power.
OK, so mouse over POWER and I see the total is 1461 and the DPS increase is 104 - I take it the DPS increase is what you're refering to?
I guess what I really need then is to be able to get an idea of how my combat stats stack up with other hunters?
I would assume that most hunters focus on thier DPS, HR and crit % with armor, dodge and health as important secondary stats.
So how do I stand up?
What kind of raids should this toon reasonably be permitted on?
How well am I set up for BGs?
Scholar
17 posts
Ok working off my terrible memory here but……
The buffs you may receive in some 5 mans and most raids seem to be the main reason that loading up with Agi is favoured. A buff like “Blessing of kings†increases all your stats by 15%.
Now if you are loaded with Attack Power gems you are going to get very little benefit from the buff. Loading up with Agi gems however is going to increase your characters overall Agi, which in turn will be increased by 15% thanks to the buff. This in turn will increase your overall damage and your crit rating (as well as other funky stats such as armour and dodge rating I think).
The importance of being hit capped is easily explained like this I guess….
If I hit for 1000 and my shot hits and the other hunter normally hits for 2000 but his shot misses who does the most damage? Now take that principle over a long boss fight. I might hit for less but because I don’t miss my overall DPS against that boss is going to be higher than the other hunter.
I believe that the only way to increase Hit Rating is with +Hit gear (and some enchants/gems). So far as I am aware Agi has no effect upon it.
You are generally right regards what you would need to focus on as a hunter if you want to focus on PvE although I cannot really comment on what you may need for PvP (I avoid it like the plague lol).
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 8:12pm by Vagrantbond
The buffs you may receive in some 5 mans and most raids seem to be the main reason that loading up with Agi is favoured. A buff like “Blessing of kings†increases all your stats by 15%.
Now if you are loaded with Attack Power gems you are going to get very little benefit from the buff. Loading up with Agi gems however is going to increase your characters overall Agi, which in turn will be increased by 15% thanks to the buff. This in turn will increase your overall damage and your crit rating (as well as other funky stats such as armour and dodge rating I think).
The importance of being hit capped is easily explained like this I guess….
If I hit for 1000 and my shot hits and the other hunter normally hits for 2000 but his shot misses who does the most damage? Now take that principle over a long boss fight. I might hit for less but because I don’t miss my overall DPS against that boss is going to be higher than the other hunter.
I believe that the only way to increase Hit Rating is with +Hit gear (and some enchants/gems). So far as I am aware Agi has no effect upon it.
You are generally right regards what you would need to focus on as a hunter if you want to focus on PvE although I cannot really comment on what you may need for PvP (I avoid it like the plague lol).
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 8:12pm by Vagrantbond
rusttle wrote:
On the INT suggestions - I have occassionally seen hunters taking INT buffs on their gear and rather wondered about that - is the idea to have more mana for special shots and a higher chance to crit with them (are the special shots considered spell crits or ranged crits?)?
the INT enchants that you saw are either 'to be replaced quickly as I level' enchants, or arena players (I guess that you saw hunters with 2x 1h weapon with +Int each) having proper pvp chants (in pvp, mana is very important, but I'm not a pee-vee-pee'er, so ask Aethien or North for more details).
The AGI /AP/Crit question was already answered in detail ;]
rusttle wrote:
Is this because extra attack power wont beef up DPS enough to make a difference at this point or because jacking up my crit will give me a better return on overall DPS?
Not so much that AP won't help DPS at this point as no matter what your AP is, 14 AP = 1 DPS. Its mainly because at about this time (300 tooltip DPS) as with what you said, the crit begins to play effect and due to agility scaling with Blessing of Kings. By getting agility gems over AP gems, you take advantage of the extra 15% agility you will gain from it. Ap doesn't scale with Kings, so agility becomes the right socketing option past 300 tooltip DPS.
rusttle wrote:
This is an alt and as such, the guild inevitably prefers that I OT with my feral in raids. The result is that it mainly BGs - is that 142 rating as important for BGs as it is raids? Also, does AGI contribute towards hit rating?
142 hit rating (technically 141.93, but you cant get .93 of a hit :)) is the amount needed to bring your hit chance up by 9%. You have a 10% chance to miss on level 73 mobs which is the level that bosses are set to be. You will always have though, no matter how much hit you have, a 1% to miss, which is why we aim for 9% not 10%.
In PvP you will face level 70 opponents, which you will have a 5% chance of missing. Since you have always got a 1% miss chance, the hit cap for PvP is 4%, or 64 hit rating. 15.77 hit rating = 1% less miss chance.
Agility has no effect on hit rating at all. Agility only translates into AP, Dodge, Armour and Crit, not Hit. The only stat that effects hit rating is... well... hit rating.
rusttle wrote:
OK, so mouse over POWER and I see the total is 1461 and the DPS increase is 104 - I take it the DPS increase is what you're refering to?
The DPS increase is how much DPS you are gaining from the amount of attack power you have.
Since 14 AP = 1DPS, 1461 AP = 104 DPS (1461/14 = 104.357 and is rounded down to 104). The RAP talked about is Ranged Attack Power (your 1461 stat). RAP is AP that just affects ranged attacks, like the Aspect of the Hawk buff. AP effects both Ranged and Melee, and MAP (obviously) effects Melee attacks.
rusttle wrote:
I would assume that most hunters focus on thier DPS, HR and crit % with armor, dodge and health as important secondary stats.
In raids and heroics, armour and dodge are not that important. If we get hit, we are generally dead whether we have 6000 or 7000 armour so its not something we take into account when choosing armour. For PvP, armour kinda scales (S1<S2<S3<S4) so if it has better armour, generally it will have better stats. In PvE, it's more looked at as to whether it contains the stats we need for increased DPS (Agility, AP, Crit, Hit, etc) and what else does it offer (Intellect, Stamina, Sockets etc) and what will we gain/lose from the switch. Going after certain stats is sometimes situational, as you would look for higher int peices if your mana was below 6k.
rusttle wrote:
So how do I stand up?
What kind of raids should this toon reasonably be permitted on?
How well am I set up for BGs?
What kind of raids should this toon reasonably be permitted on?
How well am I set up for BGs?
1. In terms of PvE, you have a lot of health. The armoury profile I'm seeing has 10109 health, which is a lot for raids. Around 7.5k-8k is a good amount for most early raids. You have a large amount of mana (I'm seeing 6688) which is good so your mana is doing well and you have a bit to spare. Your hit is just below hit capped so grab 10 more and you will be fine. You have a lot of PvP gear which isn't largely endorsed but some peices can be good.
As Sweathog (very nicely) listed, you should get these enchants soon:
Sweathog awesomely wrote:
+6 Stats to chest
28 Ap to shoulders Incrisption of the Blade because you are revered, when exalted, get Greater Inscription of the Blade
24 AP to wrists
26 AP to gloves or even better 15 AGI(pretty good gloves)
12 AGI to cloak
40 AP and 10 crit to legs
12 AGI to boots
+10 damage scope on bow (you should get better soon from Kara or badges)
24 AP to wrists
26 AP to gloves or even better 15 AGI(pretty good gloves)
12 AGI to cloak
40 AP and 10 crit to legs
12 AGI to boots
+10 damage scope on bow (you should get better soon from Kara or badges)
A few of them are quite cheap and could have the mats bought in a few dailies. Also re-socketing to mostly Delicate Living Rubies or the 4 agi 4hit ones (I forget the name). And also, that Meta in the head has got to go. +3 melee damage and a stun that procs on melee damage. Very bad for a hunter. Go with a Relentless Earthstorm Diamond if you plan to PvE with that helmet.
The last thing I can pick apart is your spec. Go with the 41/20 listed in both stickies as this will help you out a lot more. I'm not sure if its your PvP spec I'm seeing (50/11) but your crit is low probably because you did'nt get Lethal Shots (5% extra crit chance).
2. I'm no raid expert but I would say depending on your DPS output, Kara, Gruuls probably. Anything further you may need more PvE oriented gear rather than PvP gear.
3. For BG's you would really want to make sure your set for that is different than your set for PvE. For BG's your gear is fine, but pretty much any gear is fine for a BG. Just use the best PvP vendored gear you have and it will be fine. You would start to pick apart your PvP gear harshly if you were to get into serious 2.2k+ arena.
Hope I've helped!
Agility. Agility. And more agility.
Thanks Pal, I just assumed aldor there.
One important thing to add - only use tooltip DPS for the 300dps gem AGI rule. In all other respects this does not matter at all.
Russ, your hunter is in good shape, amazing that you are 132 hit without concentrating on it. I still find hit to be one of the dominant factors in my gem choices. I have gone to the cap but have been able to drop back to 128 now as I run with draeni(heroic prescence is a really nice racial endgame I tell you) but that is not an option for your BE.
I have seen it written like this hit(until 142 after that there is zero gain from hit)>AGI>AP>Stam>Intel is the priority. As Pal pointed out in that awesome post you are really good for anything up to Grulls/Mags. Enchanted, couple of drops or badge gear, assassin's stone, a new ranged weapon with better speed and you should be able to easily sustain 800+DPS and that (according to Aethien, who has a lot of credibility in my book) is enough for SSC/TK.
Also, I think your DPS would improve significantly with the truestrike crossbow from SSO rep. The PVP bow(which you should use in BG) is just too damn slow for BM hunter. 2.6 bow
PS - normally your post would have got nothing but read the stickies (which is the #1 way to increase hunter DPS from my experience) but the forum has been slow and I have noticed that some don't realize how much the proper enchants and gems can add up, my new strategy is going to be to tell people exactly how much they will gain by gemming and enchanting which will help them motivate to do it. Also, the best way to get that sick drop you want is to spend a bunch enchanting the item you want to upgrade(personal experience).
One important thing to add - only use tooltip DPS for the 300dps gem AGI rule. In all other respects this does not matter at all.
Russ, your hunter is in good shape, amazing that you are 132 hit without concentrating on it. I still find hit to be one of the dominant factors in my gem choices. I have gone to the cap but have been able to drop back to 128 now as I run with draeni(heroic prescence is a really nice racial endgame I tell you) but that is not an option for your BE.
I have seen it written like this hit(until 142 after that there is zero gain from hit)>AGI>AP>Stam>Intel is the priority. As Pal pointed out in that awesome post you are really good for anything up to Grulls/Mags. Enchanted, couple of drops or badge gear, assassin's stone, a new ranged weapon with better speed and you should be able to easily sustain 800+DPS and that (according to Aethien, who has a lot of credibility in my book) is enough for SSC/TK.
Also, I think your DPS would improve significantly with the truestrike crossbow from SSO rep. The PVP bow(which you should use in BG) is just too damn slow for BM hunter. 2.6 bow
PS - normally your post would have got nothing but read the stickies (which is the #1 way to increase hunter DPS from my experience) but the forum has been slow and I have noticed that some don't realize how much the proper enchants and gems can add up, my new strategy is going to be to tell people exactly how much they will gain by gemming and enchanting which will help them motivate to do it. Also, the best way to get that sick drop you want is to spend a bunch enchanting the item you want to upgrade(personal experience).
Arghhhh so much in this thread that is almost right, but it isn't really worth correcting.
To the subject at hand:
Gemming Agi over 300 TTDPS is generally accepted as the way to go. It isn't exactly as simple as that, but roughly speaking it is a good guideline. There can be times when you're over 300 TT even with full raidbuffs that 2AP can give you more bang for your buck than 1Agi.
Think of it this way, Crit %(primarily from Agi) and AP (primarily from... AP) both make each other better. The harder you hit (because of AP) the more each % to crit is worth, and the more Crit you have, the more each point of AP is worth. If you have 90% to crit, but your normal shots only hit for 100 dmg, then you'll gain far more by dropping off a bunch of the crit for AP to make every shot, including your crits, hit harder.
AGI is generally preferred over AP because in a raid setting there are far more ways to increase your AP than your crit. Hunter's Mark, for instance, pretty much guarantees that you have 440 more AP than you think you do. Expose weakness from you friendly neighborhood Survival hunter also grants a considerable chunk of AP. Blessing of might and kings both increase your AP, though kings also gives you more crit% by increasing your Agi too.
You can't really go wrong gemming for Agi once you start raiding though, even if it isn't going to eek out that last 1-2DPS.
To the subject at hand:
Gemming Agi over 300 TTDPS is generally accepted as the way to go. It isn't exactly as simple as that, but roughly speaking it is a good guideline. There can be times when you're over 300 TT even with full raidbuffs that 2AP can give you more bang for your buck than 1Agi.
Think of it this way, Crit %(primarily from Agi) and AP (primarily from... AP) both make each other better. The harder you hit (because of AP) the more each % to crit is worth, and the more Crit you have, the more each point of AP is worth. If you have 90% to crit, but your normal shots only hit for 100 dmg, then you'll gain far more by dropping off a bunch of the crit for AP to make every shot, including your crits, hit harder.
AGI is generally preferred over AP because in a raid setting there are far more ways to increase your AP than your crit. Hunter's Mark, for instance, pretty much guarantees that you have 440 more AP than you think you do. Expose weakness from you friendly neighborhood Survival hunter also grants a considerable chunk of AP. Blessing of might and kings both increase your AP, though kings also gives you more crit% by increasing your Agi too.
You can't really go wrong gemming for Agi once you start raiding though, even if it isn't going to eek out that last 1-2DPS.
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the INT enchants that you saw are either 'to be replaced quickly as I level' enchants, or arena players (I guess that you saw hunters with 2x 1h weapon with +Int each)
Yeah - the hunters were rather PVP oriented in thier gear and featured two melee weapons with INT chants (and even some INT chants on the rest of thier gear).
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142 hit rating (technically 141.93, but you cant get .93 of a hit :)) is the amount needed to bring your hit chance up by 9%. You have a 10% chance to miss on level 73 mobs which is the level that bosses are set to be. You will always have though, no matter how much hit you have, a 1% to miss, which is why we aim for 9% not 10%.
In PvP you will face level 70 opponents, which you will have a 5% chance of missing. Since you have always got a 1% miss chance, the hit cap for PvP is 4%, or 64 hit rating. 15.77 hit rating = 1% less miss chance.
In PvP you will face level 70 opponents, which you will have a 5% chance of missing. Since you have always got a 1% miss chance, the hit cap for PvP is 4%, or 64 hit rating. 15.77 hit rating = 1% less miss chance.
For PvP opponents, will the extra hit rating help overcome thier dodge, block, resilience, etc? What about thier armor - my feral druid does an easy 31k - how would that compare to taking a shot at a warrior with only 20k?
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In raids and heroics, armour and dodge are not that important. If we get hit, we are generally dead whether we have 6000 or 7000 armour so its not something we take into account when choosing armour.
LOL - ok - kind of discouraging having spent my entire raiding life as a feral tank to be told "Don't sweat armor or health - you're dead anyway if you get hit." O_o
So Omen is an even better friend then your pet I take it.
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For PvP, armour kinda scales (S1<S2<S3<S4) so if it has better armour, generally it will have better stats. In PvE, it's more looked at as to whether it contains the stats we need for increased DPS (Agility, AP, Crit, Hit, etc) and what else does it offer (Intellect, Stamina, Sockets etc) and what will we gain/lose from the switch. Going after certain stats is sometimes situational, as you would look for higher int peices if your mana was below 6k.
KK. My armor and weapon choices have pretty much been dictated by this toon's lack of access to raids - PvP gear was pretty much my only choice.
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1. In terms of PvE, you have a lot of health. The armoury profile I'm seeing has 10109 health, which is a lot for raids. Around 7.5k-8k is a good amount for most early raids. You have a large amount of mana (I'm seeing 6688) which is good so your mana is doing well and you have a bit to spare. Your hit is just below hit capped so grab 10 more and you will be fine. You have a lot of PvP gear which isn't largely endorsed but some peices can be good.
Kewl - wasn't sure how I'd stand with the PvP gear since everyone keeps saying that its no good for raids. Sounds like that claim might only be for certain classes though as from what I'm hearing, I'm fine or even better for raiding in this nearly exclusive PvP package.
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And also, that Meta in the head has got to go. +3 melee damage and a stun that procs on melee damage. Very bad for a hunter.
Crap - thought that meta gem would allow the stun to work with ranged too. >_< KK, swapped out to the agi/crit one.
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The last thing I can pick apart is your spec. Go with the 41/20 listed in both stickies as this will help you out a lot more. I'm not sure if its your PvP spec I'm seeing (50/11) but your crit is low probably because you did'nt get Lethal Shots (5% extra crit chance).
DOLF! Was so focused on getting the stun capability of the concussion shot that I didn't even pay attention to the lethal shot option. >_<
Yeah, the build really wasn't focused towards PVP as much as it was simply focused towards skills I found useful as a soloist.
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2. I'm no raid expert but I would say depending on your DPS output, Kara, Gruuls probably. Anything further you may need more PvE oriented gear rather than PvP gear.
What will the PvE gear give me that's exceptional to the PvP gear?
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3. For BG's you would really want to make sure your set for that is different than your set for PvE. For BG's your gear is fine, but pretty much any gear is fine for a BG. Just use the best PvP vendored gear you have and it will be fine. You would start to pick apart your PvP gear harshly if you were to get into serious 2.2k+ arena.
I'm not into PvP enough for serious arena tweaking - BGs are a fun hobby that just happen to be gearing me to the point that I'll be able to do raids with this toon when my feral tank isn't needed.
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Hope I've helped!
Quite a bit - rate up in thanks!
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Russ, your hunter is in good shape, amazing that you are 132 hit without concentrating on it.
I think its all of the PvP gear that's doing it - my resilience is through the roof as well.
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I still find hit to be one of the dominant factors in my gem choices. I have gone to the cap but have been able to drop back to 128 now as I run with draeni(heroic prescence is a really nice racial endgame I tell you) but that is not an option for your BE.
Since I dont have to worry too much about the raid half for now I think I'm going to focus on getting that AGI/crit up a bit.
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Also, I think your DPS would improve significantly with the truestrike crossbow from SSO rep. The PVP bow(which you should use in BG) is just too damn slow for BM hunter. 2.6 bow
Gladiator heavy
dps 82.4
speed 3.1
+15 STA
+12 Crit
+12 Resil
+26 AP
Truestrike
dps 66.3
speed 2.6
+10 AGI
+12 STA
+6 INT
+20 AP
I don't see how the truestrike is an upgrade - it does way less damage, the + crit is only 5.5, the AP is only +4 more but it is faster. Now maybe for PvP I can see that as having an edge due to the the speed but if I'm going to go there, I'll just equip my Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix.
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For PvP opponents, will the extra hit rating help overcome thier dodge, block, resilience, etc? What about thier armor - my feral druid does an easy 31k - how would that compare to taking a shot at a warrior with only 20k?
Two things around this bit. Hit only affects your chance not to miss. Block and Dodge are not affected by it at all. I don't even think ranged attacks can be dodged, but, to be entirely honest, I'm not big on pvp and haven't ever paid attention to it so that could be blatantly false. Armor and resilience also are affected in no way by +hit.
142 hit rating will guarantee that you will NEVER miss a raid boss. There is no 1% that is can't be overcome for physical dpsers. That is true of spellcasters, not hunters though.
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So Feign Death and Omen are even better friends then your pet I take it.
Fixed. ;)
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Kewl - wasn't sure how I'd stand with the PvP gear since everyone keeps saying that its no good for raids. Sounds like that claim might only be for certain classes though as from what I'm hearing, I'm fine or even better for raiding in this nearly exclusive PvP package.
PVP gear of an equal ilevel will virtually always be worse than pve gear for pve. Comparing S3 gear to T4 gear isn't a fair comparison. S1 gear compared to T4 gear is. Which leads me to the next point.
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What will the PvE gear give me that's exceptional to the PvP gear?
Every point of Stam, resilience and armor is loss dps stats... and yes, int is, at the very least in 10 man raids, a DPS stat. Once you're in 25 mans and can count on JoW/BoW maybe a shammy or SPriest it becomes less important, but an OoM hunter is only slightly more useful than a dead one.
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I don't see how the truestrike is an upgrade - it does way less damage, the + crit is only 5.5, the AP is only +4 more but it is faster. Now maybe for PvP I can see that as having an edge due to the the speed but if I'm going to go there, I'll just equip my Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix.
I'm not a good enough mathamagician to compare the two weapons, but fortunately Cheeky is. Get his speadsheet. Learn it, live it, love it.
I do feel pretty confident in saying that the Gladiator bow is too slow for a 3:2 rotation (leading to time where you're doing nothing), while the Truestrike is pretty much the perfect speed for a 1:1 (leaving zero deadtime in your rotation assuming good latency). This alone could bring the Truestrike above the gladiator bow. I'm not sure, but the spreadsheet probably is. ;)
Stats on a weapon are trumped by weapon speed for BM (another hunter quirk). The biggest hunter change in Wotlk so far is the fact that auto shot will no longer be interupted by casting specials (usually steady shot). Clipping Auto shot will kill your DPS quick. There is a thread on elitist jerks about shot rotation that illustrates this perfectly. It is kind of like your enchants, taken by itself each is a small upgrade, but add all together and it is a huge jump. Clipping 1 or 2 auto shots is no big deal, but in a 5 minute boss fight you will clip a lot of shots. Say your auto shot hits just for your tooltip, 328 dps right now I think, and never crits, the loss of DPS over 5 mins will be significant.
The truestrike crossbow is nearly perfect speed for a 1:1 macro 1 - you can shoot 1 auto and 1 steady with little or no clipping.
The sunfury is 2.9 which slow but will support a 3:2 macro and result in an increase in DPS over truestrike.
Gladiators bow is 3.1 which will clip alot. I easily out dps my buddy who used this while I used truestrike. This is your PVP bow and is good for PVP - not going to just stand, shoot and feign death in PVP so bigger damage hits and crits are what you want here.
Pre-raid sticky has a link to cheekys spreadsheet which is an awesome tool that does all the math for you. It is what most raiding hunters use when deciding what to change on thier toons.
The badge crossbow is recognized as the best range weapon in the game for BM hunter(not including legendary here)
Edited to say: must have been posting at the same time as Ieatrocks
Edited, Jul 26th 2008 5:10pm by Sweathog
The truestrike crossbow is nearly perfect speed for a 1:1 macro 1 - you can shoot 1 auto and 1 steady with little or no clipping.
The sunfury is 2.9 which slow but will support a 3:2 macro and result in an increase in DPS over truestrike.
Gladiators bow is 3.1 which will clip alot. I easily out dps my buddy who used this while I used truestrike. This is your PVP bow and is good for PVP - not going to just stand, shoot and feign death in PVP so bigger damage hits and crits are what you want here.
Pre-raid sticky has a link to cheekys spreadsheet which is an awesome tool that does all the math for you. It is what most raiding hunters use when deciding what to change on thier toons.
The badge crossbow is recognized as the best range weapon in the game for BM hunter(not including legendary here)
Edited to say: must have been posting at the same time as Ieatrocks
Edited, Jul 26th 2008 5:10pm by Sweathog
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