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Again MentalFrog proves why replying to any of his posts is ultimately futile. Three playground-level insults and a demand (sound familiar?) for a written rule to support my own personal opinion, which at no point have I even attempted to leverage as fact. You also missed the entire point of everything I said, but I'm getting used to that.

My point is that all these arguments are without point, as Gaudion said it's a game. Now I might cringe when I see a Gnome DK carrying a sword bigger than him, but its for the same reason other people find them hilarious; I simply dont find them hilarious, it's a visual gag that gets old a lot faster than 25lvls of grind, for me anyway. I'm not saying nobody can roll one and it'd be futile for me to try, I just find it bloody stupid, same as most French humour. The French like it, I don't. Where's the harm?

Frog, you seem to keep missing the fundamental point of a forum; we don't have to agree, in fact it's almost certain we won't. We just have to remain (or in your case, become) civil while disagreeing with each other. In that regard, you fail miserably and repeatedly.


Agreed, my mate is in the beta and rolled a Gnome DK almost immediately. He's rolled like ten of the little buggers with different hairstyles and then gave up. I think it's sort of funny they're rolling one, but I think I'll only laugh once. And then stalk them, mercilessly, from village to dell.... :)

Edited, Jul 25th 2008 8:21am by Sinstralis

You guys have no idea how many pink haired gnome deathknights are running rampant on the beta servers. It will be my personal goal on the live servers to make all pink haired DK's lives a living hell.

It could, if it didn't look so freaking ridiculous :P

The very first Death Knights were Shamans of the Old Horde. Just because your a Paladin does not mean your the only one entitled to becoming Unholy, so everyone regardless of race or class they can turn to the darker side.

A gnome-sized chimp is stronger than you. Not just proportionately stronger, actually stronger. That's because they're fully muscled apes and you're a poor example of a neotaneous species.

Maybe gnomes are as strong as humans despite the size difference. Maybe they're just as heavy. Maybe it's magic. Maybe when you're playing a game where giants walk regardless of the cube-square law, people shoot fire from their fingertips and you can carry 100 suits of platemail in five backpacks at once, this sort of arguement is really, really stupid.

Actually, there are several things wrong with that. One, musculature is not a neotenous trait. Two, chimpanzees and apes are not in the same genus so don't confuse the two. Third, comparing physical attributes of different species is somewhat of a moot point because they will have all evolved in different tracts in this case with humans having higher intelligence but apes having greater strength.

As to the actual discussion topic, it is futile to get into a discussion about physical laws in fantasy games. They just cannot and will not work together. As such, your best option if you dislike gnomes is to hunt down and kill as many of them as you can. That's why I chose the horde.



Edited, Aug 4th 2008 4:53pm by SomnusSleeper

And I'm saying that's not necessarily so. The average member of a smaller species could be stronger than the average member of a larger species.

I'm going to have to let this argument go now. I feel way, way too geeky, and must go take a shower.

Let me wind it up really simple then. When you see a gnome wielding a sword fighting a tauren with a bad *** mace, do you think

A) Damn, that Tauren's gonna use that Gnome as a football
or
B) Wo-hey, that Gnome might actually stand a chance because his density is probably a lot bigger than the Taurens resulting in him being physically stronger than the Tauren even though the Tauren is 5 times as big, well trained and swinging a mace twice the size of the Gnome.

This is probaly one of the worst threads I have ever read on these forums. The fact of the matter is this is a game. If you wanted reality turn off the computer and go outside.

Edited, Aug 5th 2008 1:48pm by Feyras

Unfair comparison? You compared gnomes to tauren as ants to humans.

                    ----- Tauren: from six and a half to nine feet tall 
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----- Gnome         | 
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I couldn't find any actual size of gnomes but taking into account they're about knee high to humans (although the screen above showed it about knee high to tauren) we'll assume about 2 feet tall. Which to me sounds about right.

So Taurens are 1.5x bigger than humans. That's with the tallest tauren of 9 feet vs a tall human of 6 feet. So tauren are 4.5x bigger than 2 foot gnomes.


Now let's look at your comparison of ants and humans.

Ants range in size from 0.75 to 52 mm (0.030 to 2.0 in). We'll go with the max of 2.0 inches vs 6 foot humans because we maxed both tauren and gnome in their comparison.

                    ----- Human: from four to six feet tall average 
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* - ant             -----

6 feet is 72 inches. This means humans are 36x bigger than ants. For your comparison to be fair gnomes would have to be 3 inches tall or tauren 72 feet tall.

Even in the real world it's not unheard of for animals that are 4.5x larger than another to lose a fight. And it was mentioned this is in a world where obviously different physics and magical interferences are at play here. So why is it so hard for anyone to believe that gnomes can't be warriors? Even in a non-magical world such as our own I don't think it's as unreasonable as some of you think.






Edited, Aug 7th 2008 11:40am by MentalFrog

Edited, Aug 7th 2008 11:46am by MentalFrog

True, but that's usually because of other specific factors. A snake can beat for example a pig because it's a lot faster and has venomous fangs. You have to keep in mind Gnomes are more or less smaller versions of Tauren. The real 'differences' between the races (like an Orc's sturdiness) are given away in the racials (which would practically make a Tauren even stronger than a Gnome, but that aside). It seems obvious Gnomes aren't a lot faster than Tauren and don't posess venomous fangs.

If you're throwing in numbers, try and make a comparison in weight. It seems quite assumable that Taurens weigh between 120 and 140kg, and a gnome around 20-30. I don't need to go into details from this point; it's fairly obvious you'd need way less force to move a Gnome than you'd need to move a Tauren, creating the "Tauren kicks away Gnome"-effect. If you want, you can do a test with numbers here, but I won't waste my time on that. There's only two situations where Taurens wouldn't be able to play football with Gnomes, and that's if the Gnomes had 3 or 4 times the normal density, or the gravity is somehow 4 times as strong up to 2 feet from the ground.

And the reason I was comparing Gnomes/Tauren as Ants/Humans was to point out the difference between relative and 'real-time' strength.

Between two animals of close to the same race I really can't see one 4,5 times as large as the other being beaten. If you reckon a snake/pig are 'extremes', I'm quite certain any dog larger than a poodle would beat a poodle. Feel free to name me an example you deem fit.

And Gnomes being tiny versions of Tauren only gives less reason for them to be warriors, honestly. It's like stating kids make could (close combat) soldiers because they are smaller versions of grown up men. Sure, when faced against other kids they'd make fine soldiers.

It's pretty safe to assume Gnomes are pretty much the same as Tauren (and every other humanoid race in the game), or at least for as far as physicial strength, weight and body concerned. That being said, no matter how you put it, Gnomes will always be the underdog.

Arguing about how gnomes couldn't possibly match a tauren in battle for strength is ridiculous and pointless. Sure, a bull here in real life could kill me if it really tried. And I'm a human, not a small gnome. But WoW doesn't take place here at all. I've never seen a robe or pair of shoes that could actually boost my intellect by just wearing them. I've never heard of a sword that will increase my physical strength if I hold it in my hand. I'm also pretty damn sure that there isn't a noggenfogger elixir here, which will basically quadruple my size and mass without altering how gravity affects me, or changing my muscles' power even with their increased size.

We don't have magically infused items here. We don't live under the same natural physical laws. How do completely different species' from different worlds, like humans and orcs, have the ability to reproduce together? I don't know but apparently they can because the Warcraft lore says that half-orcs/half-humans can exist.

It'd be like arguing that someone as small as Yoda couldn't possibly be a physical threat in close lightsaber combat against a human because his smaller arms lack human strength. Maybe here Yoda would get his little green *** kicked. But in Star Wars, he can do whatever the heck he wants since that galaxy's laws (the Force, for example) say that he can. Warcraft simply has magic and other things instead.