Theo's Rogue Beta thread.Follow

i know mutilate i sbetter damage

but im having a lot of troubling imagining having energy for mutilate, HFB, and finishers

so i was thinking maybe the management of 40 energy ss's, albeit less CP generation, would make things easier

yes... im not stupid, mutilate is better dps output

fix the build for it if you want it lol

but it takes 6 seconds to gen 1 mutilate worth of energy, 4 seconds to gen the energy for HFB

so without dropping HFB, where exactly to you have time for finishers without skipping mutilates like crazy

it just seems keeping energy management in mind... more ss's might yield more damage then mutilates

the cp gen i dont see as the bigger picture... pve = white damage mostly... so even 1pt evis's can proc out the 5pt slice n dice

so its the damage of a few more ss's vs the damage of slightly stronger evis's to proc your cut to the chase

plus the lack of position requirement is a bonus for ME at least



make any bit of sense now?




summary: mutilates starve yourself for energy, better cp gen but the big bulk talent for raid dps (HFB and cut to the chase) work the same as 1cp as they do at 5cp
the argument for me is:

(using ss)less cp, better energy flexibility, more sin strikes (which might just have better raw damage in terms of muti VS ss damage, not sure... never tested, never cared (does 2 mutilates do more damage then 3 ss's?))

VS

(using mutilate) more cps, less energy flexibility (god forbid you have to kick, **** might ruin your cycles to hell as mutilate) and being forced to be behind the enemy

Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 2:50pm by mongoosexcore

Some stuff I noted about WotLK I didn't really like:

1) Damage Reflection
The new Retribution aura does 150 or so holy damage everry time you hit them. This effects rogues, felol druids and enchancement shamans most. It kind of hurts.

2) More anti CC/Stun, stun reduction, panic buttons for all
Well, at least stun resist is getting the beat down, but things don't look too good for double dps teams.

3) 2 second CD Overpower.
I doubt they'll have the rage for it, though.

The new shadows are really cool, though.

Spec used: 12/0/50 (level 71)

Weapons used: Dagger of Bad Mojo, Merc Glad Shiv

Stats: 2086 AP, 124 hit, 31.32% crit, 1261 armor pen.

Thoughts:

It's fun. Lots of fun. Critting Ambushes for 4300+, 4800+ with an AP trinket and ShS. Keep in mind, I don't have Lethality.

The sub talents needed to make this a powerhouse of a build are too many, IMO, for competitive arena, though it may end up being viable if you drop Imp Ambush and use Ambush as a utility opener to prevent trinkets, etc.

It's a nice build for grinding, though I prefer straight sub or straight combat so I don't have to worry about positioning.

BS is still a weak ability, though at ~60% crit and 45 energy, it's nice, though I wouldn't take it over hemo because of the positional aspects.

This is why I think the build will fail ultimately, not because BS is too weak or because the talents aren't good. There are just too many talents that are almost necessary.

Edit: I suppose you could also do something like this, but you're still missing out on some key talents. I'd personally rather use this in PvP with both my feral partner as well as my mage.

Edited, Jul 26th 2008 5:57pm by Theophany

It's the most kickass build ever *grins*. Variation of what I've had in mind since vanilla wow. 45 energy backstabs and on-command crits for a burst-build. It's actually somewhat the build I've had planned for WOTLK... I'm still deciding whether to go that, this with cold blood gone and shadow dance taken, or a combination of seal fate and shadowstep.

Looking forward to hear about that...

Aye, I very much agree. Thing with backstab/ambush-builds is that you practically have to put 5 points in opportunity, 5 in lethality and possibly 3 in imp ambush. If you don't you might as well go swords/hemo. This is at the moment what I'll be aiming for as full sub, looks like it's exactly what I'm after.

Just two questions though... you said

Is the trinket prevention effect still in the game then? Since the calculator no longer mentions it.

And about Honor Among Thieves... It states "when anyone in your group critically hits"... It may seem like a stupid question but does that include yourself? Still trying to figure out if 2 points in seal fate or 2 points in HAT is better. Oh, and I'm just going to assume the numbers are still 10/20/30%, with wowhead stating "100/100/100".

In case anyone missed it on MMO-Champion:

No word yet on what those changes will be, but I'll keep an eye out and report back.

Edited, Jul 27th 2008 2:39pm by Theophany

They're true, oh God, they're true.

Now if they'd only fix mounts, I'd be happy.

It's so ******* hot seeing your energy bar constantly filling.

Mutilate still isn't any more viable, IMO. Hunger for Blood is still only good for PvP.

Our energy didn't change in how fast we gain it, just the intervals we gain it changed.

This change I can almost guarantee will make backstab and mutilate even better at high energy costs because as muti I always seem to get my energy to tic ~56 and then I need to wait 2 seconds as opposed to .4 seconds to mutilate whereas as hemorrhage you have a low energy cost so the tics will be less beneficial.

theo and other beta peoples;

there has been talk (for a long loooong time) about rogue combopoints becoming a self buff instead of a per mob "debuff". Any indications this will happen in WotLK? Or would this make rogues too imba?

I personally would love it as i loose lots of combopoints in Heroics (and sometimes harder stuff) to lucky damage spikes by mages for example.

Edited, Aug 6th 2008 10:01am by samperor

It doesn't.

Why not, anyway? The lack of those couple of assassination points matters too much?

Thoughts on this? 0/28/43

Edited, Aug 6th 2008 4:39pm by Zaknalfein