Short version:
How important is tanking gear (+defense, dodge, etc.) for beginning tanking Ramparts?
Long version:
I have a level 62 druid that is on the way to being my third 70. I'm specc'd heavy feral, with 44 pts Feral and nine Resto right now. At this point, I don't really have any tanking gear, per se. But, for level 62 I think I'm fairly well geared since I can buy and craft gear. I can link Armory, but I'm in kitty right now. In kitty, my defense is 305 and my dodge is 29.73% if that helps at all.
My main is a hunter and my other 70 is a holy pally, so I have absolutely zero tanking experience. But, I am familiar with the instances and tactics. I have tanked a few group quests and have practiced tanking a little while solo. My main goal has been leveling, however, so I spent no time trying to get groups for low level instances (I'd rather spend time leveling, rather than waiting for PuGs) and so have run no instances up to this point. I'm rather nervous about tanking for the first time (much like the first time healing) because so much rides on being at least decent at tanking an instance. I don't want to be a total idiot when four other people are depending on me. A partial idiot, I can expect, at least to start. I don't want to enter an instance as a tank if my gear will be a hindrance.
So, is tanking Ramparts (and Blood Furnace) do-able in gear that is essentially kitty gear? As I go, I will definitely be accumulating tank-specific gear for level 70, but up 'til now I really haven't seen much that is specifically tank gear.
Thanks for any input.
edit: Added Armory link.
Edited, Jul 21st 2008 12:09pm by azwing
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Gear question for tanking RampartsFollow
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Edited, Aug 26th 2008 10:07pm by kawainui
Edited, Aug 26th 2008 10:07pm by kawainui
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Edited, Aug 26th 2008 10:07pm by kawainui
Edited, Aug 26th 2008 10:07pm by kawainui
You dodge is fine, but it would be nice to know how much health/armor you have. That being said, you can probably tank it. The gear you pick up leveling will generally have stam in addition to agi/str/ap/whatever. Skill is a larger issue here than gear, imo.
If you're 62, I wouldn't worry too much about gear. It's nice to have some +sta gear but the defense stuff is far from critical at that lvl.
've tanked Ramps and BF a couple times now (still cant seem to get that damn ring!) My gear is simply quest reward stuff. Witha half-decent healer, it's enough to tank the instance pretty well.
Although I have to say I usually die on that last dragon boss (although usually surviving long enough that the rest of the group can kill it afterward) He does a lot of magical damage so the extra Bear armor isnt much use and it comes down to raw Stam, which I don't have a lot of.
Although I have to say I usually die on that last dragon boss (although usually surviving long enough that the rest of the group can kill it afterward) He does a lot of magical damage so the extra Bear armor isnt much use and it comes down to raw Stam, which I don't have a lot of.
Thanks for the replies.
I went into Ramps and BF yesterday.
Ramps went very well. We one-shotted first and second bosses and two-shotted the last boss. The group was all 62 or lower, with a pally healer that dinged 60 during the run. Given that the pally was a bit weak on healing and kept running out of mana, the run went very well for a PuG. We wiped on trash once because he was OOM and didn't say anything even though we had another druid that could have pitched in to help.
Then, later in the evening, I got invited to a BF run, so I did that also. The run went pretty good considered we had a Balance druid healing and he kept having connection issues. He did a good job, but the DC's were poorly timed a couple times. Fortunately, we had a Ret pally along for a few spot heals. The biggest thing I learned from BF is that I need to practice with multiple mob pulls where there isn't enough CC. Generally, I did okay on controlling two mobs, but lost the second one a couple times. I did a mediocre job overall, I think, mainly because I lost a few mobs every once in a while and had trouble multi-tasking to get them. I think with practice, I'll get better at it.
Overall, I really enjoyed it. I have dps'd and healed most of the instances, which is a big help. Knowing the pulls, for the most part, takes some of the pressure off the newness of tanking.
I meant to log off in bear today, but I forgot :-(. I want to say my armor is 10k and health is 7+k.
Anyway, thanks again for the helpful comments.
I went into Ramps and BF yesterday.
Ramps went very well. We one-shotted first and second bosses and two-shotted the last boss. The group was all 62 or lower, with a pally healer that dinged 60 during the run. Given that the pally was a bit weak on healing and kept running out of mana, the run went very well for a PuG. We wiped on trash once because he was OOM and didn't say anything even though we had another druid that could have pitched in to help.
Then, later in the evening, I got invited to a BF run, so I did that also. The run went pretty good considered we had a Balance druid healing and he kept having connection issues. He did a good job, but the DC's were poorly timed a couple times. Fortunately, we had a Ret pally along for a few spot heals. The biggest thing I learned from BF is that I need to practice with multiple mob pulls where there isn't enough CC. Generally, I did okay on controlling two mobs, but lost the second one a couple times. I did a mediocre job overall, I think, mainly because I lost a few mobs every once in a while and had trouble multi-tasking to get them. I think with practice, I'll get better at it.
Overall, I really enjoyed it. I have dps'd and healed most of the instances, which is a big help. Knowing the pulls, for the most part, takes some of the pressure off the newness of tanking.
I meant to log off in bear today, but I forgot :-(. I want to say my armor is 10k and health is 7+k.
Anyway, thanks again for the helpful comments.
azwing wrote:
Then, later in the evening, I got invited to a BF run, so I did that also. The run went pretty good considered we had a Balance druid healing and he kept having connection issues. He did a good job, but the DC's were poorly timed a couple times. Fortunately, we had a Ret pally along for a few spot heals. The biggest thing I learned from BF is that I need to practice with multiple mob pulls where there isn't enough CC. Generally, I did okay on controlling two mobs, but lost the second one a couple times. I did a mediocre job overall, I think, mainly because I lost a few mobs every once in a while and had trouble multi-tasking to get them. I think with practice, I'll get better at it.
What I found is helpful on pulls where you're tanking two mobs is to pull your secondary target with FFF and drop a mangle on him as soon as he's in range. Tell your party before the pull to hold off dps for a bit. After first mangle, switch targets to main target and Swipe until mangle is off cooldown. Nail main tank target with a Mangle and you should be golden. Swipe between mangles to keep threat on your secondary target through healing aggro and you shouldn't have too much difficulty. This strategy means that you're not going to have much threat on your main tank target for a little over 6 seconds after a pull, but it will mean that your secondary target is mostly likely going to stick to you a lot easier. This works for pulls with 3 mobs as well...pull/Mangle the second target in kill order, switch to main, swipe all three. You'll have starter aggro on the second target for the switch when the main target goes down, and with all the swiping you'll be doing, you'll have a decent amount of threat on the third target as well.
Anything more than 3 tank targets in a non-level 70 dungeon and you need to boot some dps warriors and ret pallies and get yourself some CC ;D
Thanks Aurelius...I actually did try that a few times, but I think the dps was jumping the gun a bit. I tended to lose the primary too fast. I think I just need more practice on the timing of it and I need to make sure to tell the dps to wait a little bit so I can get aggro on both. I'll blame myself for not communicating properly. Tanking definitely requires some skills/knowledge (not just in-game skills, that is) that dps and/or healing do not.
In general, the party was a bit impatient and think that was a factor. For example, I kept trying to pull groups back into a hallway, or just back farther, and they kept wanting to run forward (ahead of me sometimes) even though I would say 'pulling back' or tell them where I'd be pulling to before I pulled. In particular, there are a lot of casters in BF and I was trying to do LOS pulls and/or aggro them and back up to make them move closer to me (my main's a hunter, so I'm very familiar with how to pull casters back). But, the group didn't get the idea when I was running or backing up through them even though I'd said I was pulling back.
I've definitely got some practicing to do, though. Time to run Ramps and BF and/or SP, UB a bunch.
LOL at this. Too true. Both instances I ran had versions of this. The Ramps run had both...fortunately, a competent mage was there too for CC. The number of dps warriors and ret pallies looking for groups in the pre-70s instances is very high compared to the 70 and heroics. But, the lack of CC was kind of a good thing, in a way. It helps force me to learn multi-mob tanking.
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 4:00pm by azwing
In general, the party was a bit impatient and think that was a factor. For example, I kept trying to pull groups back into a hallway, or just back farther, and they kept wanting to run forward (ahead of me sometimes) even though I would say 'pulling back' or tell them where I'd be pulling to before I pulled. In particular, there are a lot of casters in BF and I was trying to do LOS pulls and/or aggro them and back up to make them move closer to me (my main's a hunter, so I'm very familiar with how to pull casters back). But, the group didn't get the idea when I was running or backing up through them even though I'd said I was pulling back.
I've definitely got some practicing to do, though. Time to run Ramps and BF and/or SP, UB a bunch.
Quote:
you need to boot some dps warriors and ret pallies and get yourself some CC ;D
LOL at this. Too true. Both instances I ran had versions of this. The Ramps run had both...fortunately, a competent mage was there too for CC. The number of dps warriors and ret pallies looking for groups in the pre-70s instances is very high compared to the 70 and heroics. But, the lack of CC was kind of a good thing, in a way. It helps force me to learn multi-mob tanking.
Edited, Jul 24th 2008 4:00pm by azwing
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Edited, Aug 26th 2008 10:04pm by kawainui
Edited, Aug 26th 2008 10:04pm by kawainui
Great tips kawainui. Thanks!
I didn't think of starting a pull in caster form, then popping into bear. That sounds like a very good way to go. One of the things I'm loving about playing a druid is the amazing versatility of the class, but it does take a lot practice to learn and there a lot of possibilities. Tips like this are great to help me think outside the box. Side story: I was proud of myself during BF...in the middle of the Boggrok fight during the orc waves, the druid healer was out of mana...which was going to mean a certain wipe. I did an Innervate on him, which I think he had forgotten about. He gave me a big thanks and we proceeded to down the boss. Simple thing, I know, but with everything else going on, I was happy I remembered it.
I do have Omen already. My main is a raiding hunter, so I've had that for a long time. The PuGs I ran the two instances with, however, were mostly not using Omen. If I recall, one other person of the eight total from both runs had Omen. It's so second nature for 70s to have it, that it just seems odd when lower level folks don't have it.
As for Cenarion rep...I farmed Unidentified Plant Parts on my hunter so I could turn in up to max rep before I started Cenarion quests. I expect to have to run instances, but not a biggie. My hunter ground out reps to revered before the heroic keys were available at honored, so at least I know the instances. :-)
I didn't think of starting a pull in caster form, then popping into bear. That sounds like a very good way to go. One of the things I'm loving about playing a druid is the amazing versatility of the class, but it does take a lot practice to learn and there a lot of possibilities. Tips like this are great to help me think outside the box. Side story: I was proud of myself during BF...in the middle of the Boggrok fight during the orc waves, the druid healer was out of mana...which was going to mean a certain wipe. I did an Innervate on him, which I think he had forgotten about. He gave me a big thanks and we proceeded to down the boss. Simple thing, I know, but with everything else going on, I was happy I remembered it.
I do have Omen already. My main is a raiding hunter, so I've had that for a long time. The PuGs I ran the two instances with, however, were mostly not using Omen. If I recall, one other person of the eight total from both runs had Omen. It's so second nature for 70s to have it, that it just seems odd when lower level folks don't have it.
As for Cenarion rep...I farmed Unidentified Plant Parts on my hunter so I could turn in up to max rep before I started Cenarion quests. I expect to have to run instances, but not a biggie. My hunter ground out reps to revered before the heroic keys were available at honored, so at least I know the instances. :-)
Personally, when tanking two mobs, I FFF the secondary target and lacerate it (maybe maul if I have enough rage from the previous pull), then switch to the main target, mangling (and again, maybe mauling) it. Usually, just refreshing the lacerates on the secondary target is enough threat to keep it off the healer until the primary target is down. I realize you (the OP) don't have lacerate yet, but you can keep this in mind for when you get it. I find this to work better than mangling the secondary target because a lacerate stack does more threat (albeit over time, but as long as it keeps ahead of the healer it is fine), whereas mangle does more threat up-front, which is what you need for trigger-happy dps.
For three mobs, stay on main target and just swipe and maul, mangle if you aren't way ahead on threat on the main target. For more than three, get a mangle on the main target and then tab-swipe. For tanking multiple mobs, you might want to consider diamond threat meter. I love it, personally. It has two windows: one that shows everyone's threat on your current target (or if you are targeting a friendly player, your target's target), and one that shows how far ahead you are in threat on all the enemies you have threat on. This is great, because you can see when (for example) your healer is 1500 threat from pulling aggro on one of the four mobs you are tanking, and do something (mangle, lacerate, maul, w/e) to increase that gap.
I forget where I was going with this....
For three mobs, stay on main target and just swipe and maul, mangle if you aren't way ahead on threat on the main target. For more than three, get a mangle on the main target and then tab-swipe. For tanking multiple mobs, you might want to consider diamond threat meter. I love it, personally. It has two windows: one that shows everyone's threat on your current target (or if you are targeting a friendly player, your target's target), and one that shows how far ahead you are in threat on all the enemies you have threat on. This is great, because you can see when (for example) your healer is 1500 threat from pulling aggro on one of the four mobs you are tanking, and do something (mangle, lacerate, maul, w/e) to increase that gap.
I forget where I was going with this....
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