So what do you think of the changes to tanking so far?Follow

From what I've read we will be getting a big buff to threat (blizz said they wanted tanks to do more dps, and more dps = more threat generally), but this is counter balanced by the removal of salvation, so expect the threat gap between tanks and dps to remain roughly the same. We don't seem to be getting ANY new mitigation talents or abilities so when raiding the guild is still always gonna ask the warrior to step up and tank the big bosses :\

Also, with the melding of gear between warriors and paladins, are we all gonna run around looking exactly the same?

And our own version of shield wall every 5 minutes.

;)

This is very important to remember. One thing that I've been saying for a long time now is that as damage dealers are able to generate more DPS, the amount of threat that they put out scales MUCH better than the amount of threat that we can put out using the same rusty old abilities we always have. If DPS Class A can expect 1000 DPS (nice round number, not meant to be accurate) right now and TANK Class A can expect 400 DPS (Same deal) now -- and both can expect a 20% increase in damage output for Wrath (again, a round number for demonstration purposes and not indicitive of actual changes) -- That's a 200 DPS increase for the DPS class and an 80 DPS increase for the tank class. The difference becomes even more apparent when you consider that "threat only" abilities (that dont generate threat by translating it from raw damage, like a Warrior's Sunder Armor) scale even WORSE.

The net effect is that every tanking class needs a large boost in threat generating abilities. We get out through a modest increase to the mechanics that are already in place (poor scaling), new levels of abilities that already exist (moderate at best scaling), and brand new abilities.

Even with the beta out, we cant really make judgements yet. There's a level cap, and even when it's lifted we'll have to theorycraft for a while to get the precise numbers for the new combat/avoidence system first (for level 80) which will be liable to change before Wrath goes live. Only AFTER that does it really make sense to start looking into how our threat output has scaled (again, for level 80) so we're a ways a way from getting real answers about the changes to tanking. I havn't spent a single moment of my time in the beta fussing about either issue yet. I've concerned myself more with story/world/game-play issues than mechanical issues. I'm sure that won't change until level 80.

The one thing that I will say about the changes to the Protection tree (and Paladin "tanking" in general) so far based on my experience is: you have more options when solo-questing now. Previously, it was a repetition of "round up an entire area, kill entire area, go about business in the area" because killing 1 mob at a time was a complete waste of time (and mana). It is far more viable to pretend you're a DPS when soloing now, but it's still slower.

Looks to me that Blizzard has changed their mind once again about how paladin works: For a while there, they were moving away from itemizing paladins with spellpower and instead using strength for everything so they could share dps gear and tanking gear with warriors. However, now that there's going to be death knights, they're reversing and making paladins run on spellpower like death knights will, and consiquently giving paladins talents to convert stamina to spellpower if you're stacking stamina for tanking, or strength if you're stacking strength for dps.

Smart fellers, these blizzardies.

I haven't seen anyone say this yet (but then again, I don't know if it's common knowledge yet), but Blizz is changing the +block value you get from strength to 2 Str = 1 BV (at least that's how it is in the beta at the moment). So in other words, we won't have to stack +block value items, we just need lots of strength for block value. Also, Blizz moved Divine Strength into the Prot tree... +15% strength just went from laughable to a staple talent (I know I'm going to pick it up =D).

Edited, Aug 6th 2008 12:10pm by Iosepha

You ARE wrong.





perhaps, but now you have a 2 second over lap incase you accedently have GCD. stop trying to trivialize our buffs. this makes it far easier to keep up our block.





show me a Chamual who doesnt keep up with the new information and i'll show you some fail.

Holy will be rolling with Consentration, now with that talent in the holy tree.
Ret will now be in charge of the Ret aura, now that all the aura buffs Ret origanally had, are not only rolled into it, but Ret has easy access to imp ret aura telent.
Prot will have no other aura to use other then Devotion, which is easilly improved with a talent in their tree.
All auras are now Raid wide.

Edit: And for more mitagation, how about our own Shield Wall on a 5min CD, which if you look at the recent notes, will be speced down to 4 minute. 50% oh **** mitigation every 4 minutes, to stack with ardent defender . . . thats just off the top of my head, as im giveing most if not all my attention to the Ret changes.

maybe you should lurk more before you run off at the mouth.

to answer your question, we are only going to look like warriors prolly in 5 mans. once you get into raids that will change, unless however, blizz sucks so bad at stating our Tier pieces that we have no choice. ideally, everyone will wear "mostly" tier gear which is class specific.

Edit: i suck at quotes.

Edited, Aug 11th 2008 10:10am by RuenBahamut

Edited, Aug 11th 2008 10:12am by RuenBahamut

Edited, Aug 11th 2008 10:17am by RuenBahamut

Don't you worry your pretty little head about Death Knights, Ruen. Whereas Blizzard seems to be engineering Warriors to be the best single-target tanks, Paladins to be the best AoE tanks, and Druids to be the in-between tanks, Death Knights are currently looking to be the game's first specifically-crafted off-tanks.

In fact, a lot of what's happening with them is what was going on with Paladins pre-TBC. Blizzard has said, "Ok, you're a tank class... Go tank!" but they haven't really given junior any toys to play with on the playground. They appear to have decent threat output (AoE in particular) but they have no stamina-increasing talents and only high armor and parry for mitigation which makes them more similiar to Druids than anything. There were rumors circulating pre-beta that Death Knights were intended to fill the "magic tank" role, but looking at their abilities and talents... they really don't.

They make ideal off-tanks due to the fact that they look like they can crank out more damage than any of the other potential tanking classes can with their base abilities, but I wouldn't expect to see them main-tanking very much raid content.

Poor Kid.





Never running out of charges on holy shield is dumb. With the boost, I'll be able to time better time my cooldowns to keep holy shield up constantly. You're right, no boost to single target tanking.



Yeah, you're right. I mean an aura that increases healing to the whole tank group is stupid. Nobody is gonna want the extra armor anyways.



Again you're right. I mean what am I going to do if I'm blocking constantly. Blocking doesn't mitigate any damage at all. I should just take off my shield.



We are still going to have Tier gear. Everyone wore the same crap before T4 anyway. The stats will be the same as warriors, but we are getting much needed fixes. We shouldn't be required to use a 41 dps weapon. We might use standard tank weapons. Strength will add more BV per point, and we will get threat from both AP and spell damage. I really don't see what you're complaining about.


Edited, Aug 11th 2008 10:45pm by ramera

Lets get greedy and ask for last stand too. I mean druids got it. =D

Blizzard has always done a lot of talking. As with most of their promises, I'll believe it when I see it.