Need suggestions from the pros. After kicking some serious *** at level 60 with my mutilate rogue I was hit with the brutal reality of getting MY *** kicked at 70! I have tried for months (I am 100% pvp)to make mutilate work and finally decided to scrap it and go Shs.
I've only been Sub for a few days so I'm still getting the hang of it but I think I'm doing something wrong because my hits just don't have much "bang!". I really don't think I'm getting the damage that I should. I dunno, maybe I'm just used to getting that burst that I got from Mut that I don't get from Shs but something just doesn't seem right.
I specc'd 20/0/41 maces, and my gear isn't all that hot (mostly welfare stuff) but I'm not running around in blues either. After reading the posts on this site I already know that my res is too high and my hit is too low but I don't know what else to look for.
I have never been anything but mutilate so I'm sure most of my main problem is just making the change and learning the new style. Can any of you think of some common errors I may be making that might affect my damage? Hell, I may just be a head-up-my-***-l2p-noob.....
-Z-
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gnomeregan&n=Zartheed
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1st Check Theo's PvP guide.
don't gem for Crit, this is one of those rules that you should always follow. instead try and gem so you've got just over 70 hit(the exact number slips my mind) then your special attacks won't miss against most targets, Mages being an exception.
also get yourself the 2 minute trinket
high res currently isn't a massive issue with the resent Cheat death Nerf, in fact its probably a good thing to have that amount of res until you get used to playing ShS, as cheat death will defiantly be your friend. once your used to it and not struggling to down target you may wish to reduce the amount you have to a level you feel comfortable at.
regarding mistakes in your play style i cant comment, but Theo does go through how to play ShS in great depth so he's really the guy to ask.
Edited, Jul 17th 2008 12:59pm by pythonesc
don't gem for Crit, this is one of those rules that you should always follow. instead try and gem so you've got just over 70 hit(the exact number slips my mind) then your special attacks won't miss against most targets, Mages being an exception.
also get yourself the 2 minute trinket
high res currently isn't a massive issue with the resent Cheat death Nerf, in fact its probably a good thing to have that amount of res until you get used to playing ShS, as cheat death will defiantly be your friend. once your used to it and not struggling to down target you may wish to reduce the amount you have to a level you feel comfortable at.
regarding mistakes in your play style i cant comment, but Theo does go through how to play ShS in great depth so he's really the guy to ask.
Edited, Jul 17th 2008 12:59pm by pythonesc
Couple of thoughts.
Don't gem for hit in your pvp gear, your upgrades should take care of it. Are you going to get at least the S2 armor set? The S3 set has hit rating on it, as do the S2 weapons. You can also get surefooted if you need the extra 10 hit, but it's no longer the preferred boot enchant.
Thoughts if you're keeping this gear:
+6 stats to chest
+15 agi to gloves over AP
Boot enchant of choice
Rep enchant on head (which is easy rep grinding, Cenarion in Zang)
+12 agi to cloak
Don't gem for hit in your pvp gear, your upgrades should take care of it. Are you going to get at least the S2 armor set? The S3 set has hit rating on it, as do the S2 weapons. You can also get surefooted if you need the extra 10 hit, but it's no longer the preferred boot enchant.
Thoughts if you're keeping this gear:
+6 stats to chest
+15 agi to gloves over AP
Boot enchant of choice
Rep enchant on head (which is easy rep grinding, Cenarion in Zang)
+12 agi to cloak
You should really drop the battlemaster's trinket and just use bloodlust brooch or something with AP. Also, what everyone else said.
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2 posts
Thanks for the input guys. I REALLY hated to ask such a broad question, especially with all the info already posted on this site, but ShS is so new to me that all these changes are just about overwhelming. I read Theo's PvP guide and that thing is almost TOO good. It had so much valuable info in it that I couldn't absorb it all. LOL, I bet i went through it three times and I'm gonna read it a couple more times.
As far as my gear goes I'm definately gonna upgrade as I can but enchanting what I have now is no biggie cuz I have gold running out my stealthed butt. AND, I have to admit that I'm a little embarrased that it took you guys to notice that I'm running around with no enchant on my boots. I few months ago when I got the boots I had planned on getting surefooted and I guess I forgot all about it. That was a bit stupid!
The reason my hit is so low is because I had read somewhere that hit wasn't important in PvP, only in PvE when fighting 70+ critters so I had never worried about it too much.
Anyway, thanks for the thoughts. I'm gonna go work on my rogue and I'm sure I'll be back with more noob ShS questions......Thanks Again!
-Z-
As far as my gear goes I'm definately gonna upgrade as I can but enchanting what I have now is no biggie cuz I have gold running out my stealthed butt. AND, I have to admit that I'm a little embarrased that it took you guys to notice that I'm running around with no enchant on my boots. I few months ago when I got the boots I had planned on getting surefooted and I guess I forgot all about it. That was a bit stupid!
The reason my hit is so low is because I had read somewhere that hit wasn't important in PvP, only in PvE when fighting 70+ critters so I had never worried about it too much.
Anyway, thanks for the thoughts. I'm gonna go work on my rogue and I'm sure I'll be back with more noob ShS questions......Thanks Again!
-Z-
I switched from muti to ShS swords a while back, and it took some getting used to. I caught myself cheap shotting and then running behind clothies. Not having the positional requirement and the extra mobility of shadowstep makes it an incredibly fun build. It's effective in BG's as much as anywhere as well, stepping up to a turtled flag or surprising the sh*t out of someone at the spawn point of an EOTS or picking off unsuspecting defense in AV.
Have fun!
Have fun!
ThomasMagnum wrote:
I switched from muti to ShS swords a while back, and it took some getting used to. I caught myself cheap shotting and then running behind clothies. Not having the positional requirement and the extra mobility of shadowstep makes it an incredibly fun build. It's effective in BG's as much as anywhere as well, stepping up to a turtled flag or surprising the sh*t out of someone at the spawn point of an EOTS or picking off unsuspecting defense in AV.
Have fun!
Have fun!
Not that you shouldn't still run behind clothies when the opportunity arises, so they can't dodge you.
Scholar
36 posts
Hi Z,
okay, first thing first...get your hit to 79. You probably will have to gem a couple of +8hit gems to get that with your current gear. Once you have either s3 or s4 gear which has +hit on them, it will be a lot easier to get to 79 hit rating without having to gem for it.
if you read theo's pvp faq...
red gems: +attack power (+16attack power for "blue" quality...epic is +20ap)
yellow gems: +crit/+attack power (+4crit/+8ap for "blue" quality gems...epic gems is +5/+10)
and you only need 2 of these to activate your meta gem. Also you don't have to gem for the socket bonus...for example lots of rogues will stick a red +AP gem into their pvp neck (yellow socket) because they don't need the +stam socket bonus.
need to enchant your cloak, head, and boots. cloak is +12agil, boots will be surefooted for the +10hit plus some snare resist. For the head you need to get CE rep fast so you can get the head enchant.
also with the recent cheat death nerf some extra resilence might not be a bad idea...but if you want cheat death to work similar to how it was before the nerf you need something like 450 resil. With about 400 resil you will get 80% damage reduction for the 3 seconds. I don't know how many rogues are going to give up dps for more resilence.
anyways, re-read theo's pvp faq and tweak your gems/enchants a bit and good luck.
okay, first thing first...get your hit to 79. You probably will have to gem a couple of +8hit gems to get that with your current gear. Once you have either s3 or s4 gear which has +hit on them, it will be a lot easier to get to 79 hit rating without having to gem for it.
if you read theo's pvp faq...
red gems: +attack power (+16attack power for "blue" quality...epic is +20ap)
yellow gems: +crit/+attack power (+4crit/+8ap for "blue" quality gems...epic gems is +5/+10)
and you only need 2 of these to activate your meta gem. Also you don't have to gem for the socket bonus...for example lots of rogues will stick a red +AP gem into their pvp neck (yellow socket) because they don't need the +stam socket bonus.
need to enchant your cloak, head, and boots. cloak is +12agil, boots will be surefooted for the +10hit plus some snare resist. For the head you need to get CE rep fast so you can get the head enchant.
also with the recent cheat death nerf some extra resilence might not be a bad idea...but if you want cheat death to work similar to how it was before the nerf you need something like 450 resil. With about 400 resil you will get 80% damage reduction for the 3 seconds. I don't know how many rogues are going to give up dps for more resilence.
anyways, re-read theo's pvp faq and tweak your gems/enchants a bit and good luck.
this one took me a while too, but you get used to it.
I started levelling a warrior alt as i was approaching 70 so i had a good feel for intercept and charge, which helped me get the hang of how/when to use ShS.
the big thing as you said is lack of burstability. once you hit 70 you lose a lot of burst due to Resilience, and switching to shs feels like your gimping yourself at first. but eventually you get a hang of it. shs is cooldown management, stun management, diminishing returns management. you want to control the fight and do steady damage, rather than burst. gear is important, and youll see a lot of t5+ rogues wearing pve gear mixed in with pvp (250-300 resilience seems normal for these rogues). you want to go heavy on the ap with this spec.
just give it some time and youll learn as you go, just like you did with mutilate.
I started levelling a warrior alt as i was approaching 70 so i had a good feel for intercept and charge, which helped me get the hang of how/when to use ShS.
the big thing as you said is lack of burstability. once you hit 70 you lose a lot of burst due to Resilience, and switching to shs feels like your gimping yourself at first. but eventually you get a hang of it. shs is cooldown management, stun management, diminishing returns management. you want to control the fight and do steady damage, rather than burst. gear is important, and youll see a lot of t5+ rogues wearing pve gear mixed in with pvp (250-300 resilience seems normal for these rogues). you want to go heavy on the ap with this spec.
just give it some time and youll learn as you go, just like you did with mutilate.
Quote:
instead try and gem so you've got just over 70 hit(the exact number slips my mind)
79
Quote:
Don't gem for hit in your pvp gear, your upgrades should take care of it. Are you going to get at least the S2 armor set? The S3 set has hit rating on it, as do the S2 weapons. You can also get surefooted if you need the extra 10 hit, but it's no longer the preferred boot enchant.
Never give advice if you do not know what you are talking about.
You can gem for agi, too, by the way. Better than AP if you're playing Rogue/Rcdruid. Oh, and if you need some hit but less than needed to gem completely for hit then it's better to gem agi&hit in yellow than one hit and an ap and crit gem.
i loved muti because of the higher mobility and healing that fleetfooted gave but now i'm absolutely in love with shadowstep. Jumping off the LM hill at low health than shadowstepping back to an ally that's still on the hill and watching one or two of the people chasing me and jumping into certain death is hilarious.
When people are chasing you, run from them in a straight line, past a tower/tree/building/whatever then shadowstep behind them and run the other way around the corner. It's great when the people chasing you have no idea where you went :)
You can also shadowstep to NPC allies on SHB in AV so you don't have to run around and into SHB, i think it also works in AB where you can step to a floor above you. You can also instantly step to players in Nagrand arena when they're on top of the bridge thing and you're underneath if you play it right.
I never thought i would say this after shadowstep being so sucky for so many patches but i'm having great fun with it.
When people are chasing you, run from them in a straight line, past a tower/tree/building/whatever then shadowstep behind them and run the other way around the corner. It's great when the people chasing you have no idea where you went :)
You can also shadowstep to NPC allies on SHB in AV so you don't have to run around and into SHB, i think it also works in AB where you can step to a floor above you. You can also instantly step to players in Nagrand arena when they're on top of the bridge thing and you're underneath if you play it right.
I never thought i would say this after shadowstep being so sucky for so many patches but i'm having great fun with it.
samperor wrote:
i loved muti because of the higher mobility
I never thought i would say this after shadowstep being so sucky for so many patches but i'm having great fun with it.
I never thought i would say this after shadowstep being so sucky for so many patches but i'm having great fun with it.
I had to laugh at this.
ShS has been our strongest spec for the past 7 months (2.3.2 went live on 1/8/08). Grats for getting on the bandwagon way late.
Also, Mut has never had the most mobility of a rogue's spec. Prior to 2.3.2, HARP held that title, and since 2.3.2, ShS has held that title.
Is it shocking that those have been our best specs ever since the end of S2 and S3 started?
theo my love, i meant in 2007 and probably before, have played this game since august 06 and before that on a friend's account :) Hence the confusion.
I meant muti > step at the time that shadowstep was lolstep.
Tried HARP for a long time and loved it as well. Guess I'm just a bandwagoning cookiecutter groupie.
Point of my post was to start a bit of OT funny stuff to be done with step but you're just to serious ;)
Edited, Jul 18th 2008 1:56pm by samperor
I meant muti > step at the time that shadowstep was lolstep.
Tried HARP for a long time and loved it as well. Guess I'm just a bandwagoning cookiecutter groupie.
Point of my post was to start a bit of OT funny stuff to be done with step but you're just to serious ;)
Edited, Jul 18th 2008 1:56pm by samperor
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