Okay, I'm not too sure about this here...
The Tooltip for Rend Armor says something like this:
"Damages target's armor for x amount. Can be stacked up to five times. Causes a high amount of threat."
The Tooltip for Devastate says something like this:
"Causes the Rend Armor effect, also dealing X damage per application of Rend Armor"
My question. Does Devastate cause the same threat Rend Armor does? Once you get Devastate, is there ever a reason to use Rend Armor again? Or is Devastate something you should only use to keep a full stack of Rends up on a mob while using Revenge/etc for threat once you have 5 applications of it on the mob?
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According to this Elitist Jerks thread, Sunder Armor doesn't seem to have much of a place at all. I assume you only gain threat for Sunder Armor when it actually adds a debuff to the stack; and when this is the case, Devastate will add the same threat as Sunder, plus a bonus amount. If this is the case, then yeah, Sunder is absolutely useless for tanking at that point.
I don't have a warrior though, this is just what I've gleaned.
I don't have a warrior though, this is just what I've gleaned.
I assume Rend Armor is a translated version of Sunder Armor, so my answer will use the latter since I'm more used to typing it.
Sunder Armor gives 301 threat when used. Devastate gives threat based on how many sunders are up on the target, starting at 101 threat with 0 sunders and ending at 176 threat with 5. Devastate ALSO applies the sunder armor debuff, adding the extra 301 threat. However, when the stack of sunders reaches 5, devastate doesn't add another debuff and thus loses the 301 bonus threat. This is mainly made up by the fact that devastate does more damage based on how many sunders are up, and thus will always do more threat than either letting the stack expire (and wasting the time you could be devastating) or just using sunder armor. The only reason to care or notice is that devastate does the most threat during those first 5 uses, so gives you a nice boost to threat at the start of battle.
For more info, go to This Tankspot guide.
Edited, Jul 17th 2008 12:02am by Zeynothix
Sunder Armor gives 301 threat when used. Devastate gives threat based on how many sunders are up on the target, starting at 101 threat with 0 sunders and ending at 176 threat with 5. Devastate ALSO applies the sunder armor debuff, adding the extra 301 threat. However, when the stack of sunders reaches 5, devastate doesn't add another debuff and thus loses the 301 bonus threat. This is mainly made up by the fact that devastate does more damage based on how many sunders are up, and thus will always do more threat than either letting the stack expire (and wasting the time you could be devastating) or just using sunder armor. The only reason to care or notice is that devastate does the most threat during those first 5 uses, so gives you a nice boost to threat at the start of battle.
For more info, go to This Tankspot guide.
Edited, Jul 17th 2008 12:02am by Zeynothix
bismarckmajivo wrote:
According to this Elitist Jerks thread, Sunder Armor doesn't seem to have much of a place at all. I assume you only gain threat for Sunder Armor when it actually adds a debuff to the stack; and when this is the case, Devastate will add the same threat as Sunder, plus a bonus amount. If this is the case, then yeah, Sunder is absolutely useless for tanking at that point.
I don't have a warrior though, this is just what I've gleaned.
I don't have a warrior though, this is just what I've gleaned.
This is mostly true, assuming you're 41 points prot spec'd. If you aren't, you won't have devastate, and will therefore still need to use Sunder Armour.
Edited, Jul 17th 2008 9:39am by robertlofthouse
I've never tested this, but I read somewhere that you can sunder without breaking CC.
If that's true, that would be a perfect way to get 1505 threat before opening the mob for dps.
If that's true, that would be a perfect way to get 1505 threat before opening the mob for dps.
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I've never tested this, but I read somewhere that you can sunder without breaking CC.
I've read that too, but it doesn't work now. I believe that was true pre 2.0.
You can use a Mouseover Macro to apply sunders to a target without actually targetting them. Sunder doesn't do damage, and will therefore not break CC.
If you target the mob directly, however, you'll attack it, deal damage, and break CC.
That being said, I've only read about this, but not tried it. It is, however, in a lot of warrior and macro guides, and none of them have been amended to indicate it no longer works (I know, this is no guarantee, but it is a relatively good indicator)
If you target the mob directly, however, you'll attack it, deal damage, and break CC.
That being said, I've only read about this, but not tried it. It is, however, in a lot of warrior and macro guides, and none of them have been amended to indicate it no longer works (I know, this is no guarantee, but it is a relatively good indicator)
Ok, I will try to test mouseover sunder this weekend and append the thread.
Interesting thing about that mouseover macro btw. When I'm tanking: it's perfect. For that reason alone the macro has replaced devastate in my def actions. However I find when I'm grinding levels solo, the key often goes red because I leave my mouse hanging in the view and it ends up sitting on an out of range mob. It usually takes me a second or two to figure that out.
Interesting thing about that mouseover macro btw. When I'm tanking: it's perfect. For that reason alone the macro has replaced devastate in my def actions. However I find when I'm grinding levels solo, the key often goes red because I leave my mouse hanging in the view and it ends up sitting on an out of range mob. It usually takes me a second or two to figure that out.
Thanks for the replies!
And yes, I meant Sunder Armor... lol. I play 3 different MMORPGs and sometimes I forget just what the ability is called (in Istaria, it is named "Rend Armor", but in WoW it is "Sunder Armor").
Sorry about the confusion (I still call rogues "Thieves" now and then, and call their Sprint "Flee" because of playing FFXI so long).
The replies were helpful, thanks!
And yes, I meant Sunder Armor... lol. I play 3 different MMORPGs and sometimes I forget just what the ability is called (in Istaria, it is named "Rend Armor", but in WoW it is "Sunder Armor").
Sorry about the confusion (I still call rogues "Thieves" now and then, and call their Sprint "Flee" because of playing FFXI so long).
The replies were helpful, thanks!
Daymer wrote:
Ok, I will try to test mouseover sunder this weekend and append the thread.
Interesting thing about that mouseover macro btw. When I'm tanking: it's perfect. For that reason alone the macro has replaced devastate in my def actions. However I find when I'm grinding levels solo, the key often goes red because I leave my mouse hanging in the view and it ends up sitting on an out of range mob. It usually takes me a second or two to figure that out.
Interesting thing about that mouseover macro btw. When I'm tanking: it's perfect. For that reason alone the macro has replaced devastate in my def actions. However I find when I'm grinding levels solo, the key often goes red because I leave my mouse hanging in the view and it ends up sitting on an out of range mob. It usually takes me a second or two to figure that out.
You should still use Devastate on your primary target; the only reason to use Sunder is if the target is CC'd, and a Mouseover Devastate macro works just as well for keeping aggro on multiple targets if they aren't.
Does this apply to all forms of CC or just some?
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Does this apply to all forms of CC or just some?
From what I've seen, it works on all CC that is broken by damage. Since sunder doesn't do any damage, then it won't break those kinds of CC. So, you can still build threat.
However, I found it easier to just break CC, taunt, and SS/Devastate.
Edited, Jul 17th 2008 2:59pm by YJMark
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You should still use Devastate on your primary target; the only reason to use Sunder is if the target is CC'd, and a Mouseover Devastate macro works just as well for keeping aggro on multiple targets if they aren't.
Sorry - I guess I misspoke there. I changed my mouseover sunder to mouseover devastate once I picked up the devastate talent. I haven't touched sunder since. I was just interested in the cc possibilities.
YJMark wrote:
Quote:
Does this apply to all forms of CC or just some?
From what I've seen, it works on all CC that is broken by damage. Since sunder doesn't do any damage, then it won't break those kinds of CC. So, you can still build threat.
However, I found it easier to just break CC, taunt, and SS/Devastate.
even easier to taunt before breaking cc
Scholar
39 posts
I have the mouseover macro, how exactly does this work? Do you just point the arrow on a mob without clicking?
People still "tab sunder" to keep aggro on multiple mobs?
I can understand if you're standing right next to CC'ed mobs (or stacking sunders on CC'ed mobs so when you break them they don't go maul a healer). When you're not though spamming TC works much more effectively, given you've got more than two targets.
TC takes one global cooldown for threat on 4 different targets. I have Imp TC and normally get around 150 dmg per target. Given the TC threat formula (dmg * 1.7) then adding in the defensive stance/defiance mods (Threat * 1.45) I end up with (150 * 1.7 * 1.45) = 369.75 threat on 4 targets.
Much more effective way of multimob tanking for a warrior.
TC does have its drawbacks though. If you're over geared taking an extra 20% of your incoming dmg can leave you very rage starved. TC can't be used when you're silenced either(yha never figured that one out).
I can understand if you're standing right next to CC'ed mobs (or stacking sunders on CC'ed mobs so when you break them they don't go maul a healer). When you're not though spamming TC works much more effectively, given you've got more than two targets.
TC takes one global cooldown for threat on 4 different targets. I have Imp TC and normally get around 150 dmg per target. Given the TC threat formula (dmg * 1.7) then adding in the defensive stance/defiance mods (Threat * 1.45) I end up with (150 * 1.7 * 1.45) = 369.75 threat on 4 targets.
Much more effective way of multimob tanking for a warrior.
TC does have its drawbacks though. If you're over geared taking an extra 20% of your incoming dmg can leave you very rage starved. TC can't be used when you're silenced either(yha never figured that one out).
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I have the mouseover macro, how exactly does this work? Do you just point the arrow on a mob without clicking?
Hi Rogaan,
That's exactly how it works. I have devestate mouseover bound to 3. So if I mouseover a mob and hit 3, I devestate it so long as it's in range and antagonistic.
If I'm not moused over any enemy mob, devestate hits my target instead.
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I have the mouseover macro, how exactly does this work? Do you just point the arrow on a mob without clicking?
i have this macro tied to my middle mouse button so it won't interfere with my normal keyboard rotation (in case i'm hovering over an out of range mob as someone mentioned).
and yes, once you get devastate you can remove sunder armor from your action bars completely. devastate applies a sunder (including innate sunder threat) + threat from the devastate action.
fix the thread title or let the thread die... i can't believe how much the sight of 'rend armor' is pissing me off on a daily basis. it makes this place look like the wowhead forums.
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