Great.
Another PvE ability.
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They just updated the tooltip for Demon Form. Its not longer a 45 sec spell. its an actual form you can change into at will. It no longer resets your hp/mana to full when you change into it though.
link please?
#29REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 29 2008 at 9:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hooray for the bunch of asshats in here.
Mozared's opinions aside, with the new change I really dont see any place for this ability anywhere. Can anyone with a reasonable outlook explain to me the point of the talent anymore? I'm not interested in random meandering "Maybe if..." ********* if anyone can actually properly defend the talent I'd be thrilled to hear about it.
As it stands, it seems to be a pure levelling and PvE talent, possibly useful in a very few boss encounters that Blizzard will have to craft specifically for the purpose, like SL locks tanking Twin Emperors in AQ40.
This talent basically takes every single other Warlock talent and replaces it with one button, and six Demonic abilities which cannot possibly be worth giving up absolutely every other tool we have. When you've 'gone Demon' all our talents won't matter as they generally improve a certain spell; only passive boosts like Demonic Embrace (nerfed, hooray) and Shadow Mastery (mostly beyond reach) will have any effect. Not to mention, the entire Demonology tree is rendered essentailly worthless; Soul Link's 15% mitigation (nerfed, hooray), all the Demon-buffing talents, everything, rendered completely inert by this one talent as it un-summons your Demon.
In PvP, 360% armour improvement from cloth is pathetically low, giving you less armour than a Shaman or Hunter and with none of the dodge/parry avoidance they enjoy, and once again replacing ALL your skills with only six. The confirmed ones that seem to be going ahead are an AoE Shadowbolt, an Immolation Aura, instant Howl of Terror, an Intercept move, and Shadow Cleave. These abilities reduce your entire bag of tricks to damage and a single CC (easily broken) on a long cooldown.
At this stage I'm willing to call quits on the whole talent, without the HP restoration of the old ability it doesnt seem to be worth casting. It has ONE redeeming quality for PvP, which is a 50% reduction in Stun/Snare duration, obviously meant to ***** with Rogues stunlocks. If the Demon is capable of enough damage to actually worry a Rogue (since both Evasion and CloS will be beneficial) then it may have that one solitary use against one class.
Otherwise, it's utter crap.
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 5:26am by Sinstralis
As it stands, it seems to be a pure levelling and PvE talent, possibly useful in a very few boss encounters that Blizzard will have to craft specifically for the purpose, like SL locks tanking Twin Emperors in AQ40.
This talent basically takes every single other Warlock talent and replaces it with one button, and six Demonic abilities which cannot possibly be worth giving up absolutely every other tool we have. When you've 'gone Demon' all our talents won't matter as they generally improve a certain spell; only passive boosts like Demonic Embrace (nerfed, hooray) and Shadow Mastery (mostly beyond reach) will have any effect. Not to mention, the entire Demonology tree is rendered essentailly worthless; Soul Link's 15% mitigation (nerfed, hooray), all the Demon-buffing talents, everything, rendered completely inert by this one talent as it un-summons your Demon.
In PvP, 360% armour improvement from cloth is pathetically low, giving you less armour than a Shaman or Hunter and with none of the dodge/parry avoidance they enjoy, and once again replacing ALL your skills with only six. The confirmed ones that seem to be going ahead are an AoE Shadowbolt, an Immolation Aura, instant Howl of Terror, an Intercept move, and Shadow Cleave. These abilities reduce your entire bag of tricks to damage and a single CC (easily broken) on a long cooldown.
At this stage I'm willing to call quits on the whole talent, without the HP restoration of the old ability it doesnt seem to be worth casting. It has ONE redeeming quality for PvP, which is a 50% reduction in Stun/Snare duration, obviously meant to ***** with Rogues stunlocks. If the Demon is capable of enough damage to actually worry a Rogue (since both Evasion and CloS will be beneficial) then it may have that one solitary use against one class.
Otherwise, it's utter crap.
Edited, Jul 30th 2008 5:26am by Sinstralis
Have any damage numbers been confirmed yet (mainly on shadowbolt and AOE shadowbolt)? What if those numbers turn out to be major pewpew?
I would just like to say, and this seems the perfect thread to do it, that while we have been nerfed (Fel Armor for example - 20% of base SPIRIT?! Are you MAD? What 'lock has SPIRIT?), our dear friends the Rogues have been given an "I win" button in Murder Spree and a HUGE advantage in Wrongful Accusation (is that the right name?).
So our Demon Form - which I think will actually be quite cool when finished - may prove PvP and WotLK useful (but not BC that I can tell)...but Rogues still got WAY more than we did.
EDIT: This is not a complaint. It is an observation. Just to be clear before I get flamed.
Edited, Jul 31st 2008 4:12am by Inoperante
So our Demon Form - which I think will actually be quite cool when finished - may prove PvP and WotLK useful (but not BC that I can tell)...but Rogues still got WAY more than we did.
EDIT: This is not a complaint. It is an observation. Just to be clear before I get flamed.
Edited, Jul 31st 2008 4:12am by Inoperante
That's funny, I was looking at it the other way from a rogue point of view. Even with the new combat talents I'm fairly sure the amount of combat rogues you'll see in PvP is virtually none. Not to mention I reckon murder spree isn't really a big *** thing for PvP. You get 5 free melee hits, so what? If I were you I'd start worrying about Shadow Dance, which basically has the same effect targeting-wise and lets us launch two or three 4K ambushes at you. Hunger for Blood in the assassination tree is utterly useless against warlocks unless you are stupid enough to keep throwing corruption at us. So basically, for PvP against warlocks, we get 1 pretty nice 51-pointer which requires to to go very deep in one tree. Which is basically the same thing as Demon form. Not to mention Theo's opinion so far seems to be that cold blood (100% chance on crit on next ability) is a better pick than shadow dance.
Was I thinking of Shadow Dance, not Murder Spree? Can't remember now.
Are you denying that you rogues haven't (once again) been given a massive boost in comparison to other classes? Not just 'locks - and I don't mind. I love a challenge...
Are you denying that you rogues haven't (once again) been given a massive boost in comparison to other classes? Not just 'locks - and I don't mind. I love a challenge...
Do you play a rogue yourself? Grass always looks greener on the other side, right? I'm not denying Shadow Dance is a pretty nifty tool (while even that's debatable). It's just that our talents are not "a massive boost in comparison to other classes". Have you seen some of the other talents? Elemental shamans will actually get one that makes them recieve -30% damage while stunned, feared or silenced. Feral druids are going to get crippling poison and a 15 second immunity to all forms of fear and stun (imagine the latter on a rogue).
Everything rogues recieve in the assassination tree are nifty trinkets, nothing more. Aside from "Hunger For Blood", which use is limited. Everything they recieve in the combat tree are things that improve damage in raids; basically every class has recieved such talents and there's no need to worry about them in PvP. Everything rogues recieve in the subtlety tree is either badly needed to bring daggers back on par with swords/maces/fists (Waylay, Slaughter From The Shadows) or badly needed to give subtlety a possible use in raids (Honor Among Thieves). That leaves Wrongfully Accused and Shadow Dance as the only real new enhancers here. While Wrongfully Accused is quite nice, I would prefer for example the feral druid's 15 sec immunity to CC (and lets not forget the free 15% hp) above Shadowdance.
If shadowdance turns out to be good and included in the cookie cutter subtlety spec, you'll have something to worry about. Something demon form could effectively cancel out.
Everything rogues recieve in the assassination tree are nifty trinkets, nothing more. Aside from "Hunger For Blood", which use is limited. Everything they recieve in the combat tree are things that improve damage in raids; basically every class has recieved such talents and there's no need to worry about them in PvP. Everything rogues recieve in the subtlety tree is either badly needed to bring daggers back on par with swords/maces/fists (Waylay, Slaughter From The Shadows) or badly needed to give subtlety a possible use in raids (Honor Among Thieves). That leaves Wrongfully Accused and Shadow Dance as the only real new enhancers here. While Wrongfully Accused is quite nice, I would prefer for example the feral druid's 15 sec immunity to CC (and lets not forget the free 15% hp) above Shadowdance.
If shadowdance turns out to be good and included in the cookie cutter subtlety spec, you'll have something to worry about. Something demon form could effectively cancel out.
I haven't even started in on Druids yet, mate. They're next on my hit list :o)
Well, when all else fails there's one thing you can be glad with;
At least demon form looks cool *grins*
At least demon form looks cool *grins*
If the rogues would be nice enough to take thier QQing over the fact that they're only still #1 and haven't been made #1 and 2 with tallent boosts to thier own forum, lets get back to focusing on demon form.
So according to one person, demon form is no longer an "oh shoot" button but instead, an actual form akin to boomkin.
360% armor boost - yeah, not all that helpful - that boosts me up to 6k armor - that's on par with, what, about a low 50s tank? O_O I guess its possible that the 71-80 cloth gear might have exceptional armor ratings the way the 61-70 gear had exceptional STA, so maybe this will be a tad more helpful...
We get six demon tallents to replace our spells and pet - ok, how's about a list so we can discuss them? I've seen -
AOE shadowbolts
AOE fire shield
Listed so far and looking the thing up and checking out the YouTube videos, it also looks like there is/was something called 'demon leap' which appears to be a cross between a warrior's charge and a Tauren's stomp.
So that's possibly three of the six abilities of demon form - what are the other three?
Remember, arena isn't the be all/end all of being a lock so we should really be focusing on what this demon form talent can do for us in the other 99% of the game.
So according to one person, demon form is no longer an "oh shoot" button but instead, an actual form akin to boomkin.
360% armor boost - yeah, not all that helpful - that boosts me up to 6k armor - that's on par with, what, about a low 50s tank? O_O I guess its possible that the 71-80 cloth gear might have exceptional armor ratings the way the 61-70 gear had exceptional STA, so maybe this will be a tad more helpful...
We get six demon tallents to replace our spells and pet - ok, how's about a list so we can discuss them? I've seen -
AOE shadowbolts
AOE fire shield
Listed so far and looking the thing up and checking out the YouTube videos, it also looks like there is/was something called 'demon leap' which appears to be a cross between a warrior's charge and a Tauren's stomp.
So that's possibly three of the six abilities of demon form - what are the other three?
Remember, arena isn't the be all/end all of being a lock so we should really be focusing on what this demon form talent can do for us in the other 99% of the game.
iHoT, Immolate and Shadow Cleave I think. There's a post over at the warlocks den with Screenshots of all the abilities.
Here we go -
http://wowmb.net/forums/f94/27645-demon_form_2_0_a/p2/
So as it stands, doesn't look too good - definately needs a lot of work to actually make this other then a gimic as I don't see this thing having the dps nor surviability to warrant its use.
I say just trash the special abilities and turn it into a warlock version of boomkin form - absorb your pet, jack up your armor and health and give a dps bonus or some imunities.
http://wowmb.net/forums/f94/27645-demon_form_2_0_a/p2/
Quote:
Well, you gain a new 'full' health and mana according to the new talent calculator (didn't check this, will tonight). The form lasts for 45 seconds. When I changed, it was once every 3 minutes. Apparently it is once every 5 minutes on the calculator, but it is still every 3 minutes inside the beta server. I didn't see anything on it about 50% resist to stuns, which it used to have, so that's sad.
Abilities:
Demonic Strike -- check the screenshots from Sniffle, basically an instant shadow damage melee 'hit'
Shadowbolt -- as it says, doesn't seem to do much damage and takes a long time to cast
Shadowcleave -- affects up to 3 enemies at once I think, like Felguard cleave
Immolate -- sets area around you on fire, so any enemy that hits takes damage per second. Check Sniffle's pics. Nice and works well so far.
Demonic leap -- you select a target (with click) and then you jump high in the air and do a sort of 'warstomp' on it when you land, so it is stunned for 2 seconds and takes some damage. Nice again.
Howl of terror -- basically you can cast an instant Howl once per transformation. Works like the affliction talent. I guess 'terror', it says, so no resist from fear resist monsters and warriors?
My armor went to over 13,300 I think, but I lost the FG, soul link, Master Demonologist and all those other Demo talents to use it. Also, there is no conversion of spellpower -> melee attack power, so your melee attacks hit like a little girl. So I still think it's too weak as it is. Hopefully they will tweak it.
Abilities:
Demonic Strike -- check the screenshots from Sniffle, basically an instant shadow damage melee 'hit'
Shadowbolt -- as it says, doesn't seem to do much damage and takes a long time to cast
Shadowcleave -- affects up to 3 enemies at once I think, like Felguard cleave
Immolate -- sets area around you on fire, so any enemy that hits takes damage per second. Check Sniffle's pics. Nice and works well so far.
Demonic leap -- you select a target (with click) and then you jump high in the air and do a sort of 'warstomp' on it when you land, so it is stunned for 2 seconds and takes some damage. Nice again.
Howl of terror -- basically you can cast an instant Howl once per transformation. Works like the affliction talent. I guess 'terror', it says, so no resist from fear resist monsters and warriors?
My armor went to over 13,300 I think, but I lost the FG, soul link, Master Demonologist and all those other Demo talents to use it. Also, there is no conversion of spellpower -> melee attack power, so your melee attacks hit like a little girl. So I still think it's too weak as it is. Hopefully they will tweak it.
So as it stands, doesn't look too good - definately needs a lot of work to actually make this other then a gimic as I don't see this thing having the dps nor surviability to warrant its use.
I say just trash the special abilities and turn it into a warlock version of boomkin form - absorb your pet, jack up your armor and health and give a dps bonus or some imunities.
Looks awful, talents suck...loving and staying Destro unless levelling is too hard in which case I'll be Afflicion up to 80 and switch back.
I wonder if, having switched to Aff, I'll be using the VW again...?
I wonder if, having switched to Aff, I'll be using the VW again...?
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