Quote:
Cleave is indeed the way to go when there are many many aoe targets. I'm not talking about two-three mob pulls, I'm talking about large aoe pulls such as the gnomes in SV. If rage generation is an issue, take a few hits (don't shield block). I can tell you that for the most part, in heroics or other instances/raids where holding threat on aoe pulls is very important, rage generation will never be an issue. I can also tell you that whenever you have to do large aoe pulls of above 6 mobs, tab Cleaving/using whatever high threat ability you can will be your best method of holding aggro.
That is simply wrong.
Cleave is a rage dump ability. It is one of our worst TPR abilities (threat per rage) and is also one of our worst TPT abilities (threat per time).
Any tank with devastate will build more threat on any number of mobs using mouse-over devastates and shield slams than using cleave, period. No tank will hold more than 3 or 4 mobs when playing with equally geared DPS unless the DPS if following the kill order. So the very first thing that the tank needs to do is establish enough initial threat on the pull to hold the main target for the DPS and to not lose the adds to the heal threat produced by the healer.
I am not talking about what to do after your rage bar is capped out and you've established initial threat. I'm talking about how you start a multi-mob encounter and how you ensure that all mobs have enough threat to stay.
Cleave is great as a rage dump in multi-tanking situations in the same way heroic strike is.
You claim, however, is that you should start a mulit-target encounter with a cleave. That is simply bad advice. Again, I provided you with the math to demonstrate that point that you generate significantly more threat not using cleave.
If you're facing 6 or more targets, the pull sequence for maximum threat on multiple targets is:
1. Demoralizing Shout… once
2. Thunderclap… once
3. Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Devaste… rotating between your targets.
4. re-apply demo and tc when you can (watch your threat meters as you change targets, keeping a good threat buffer everywhere)
If you lose control (which will only happen if your dps'ers aren't following the MA and the MA isn't following the kill order), and one or more head for your healer:
1. Taunt 1 mob off him, if more then:
2. Tab or mouseover, Concussion Blow another one, if more then:
3. Tab or mouseover, Mocking Blow a 3rd one, if more then:
4. Tab or mouseover (very hard to do when running to intercept), run away and Intercept a 4th one
You’ve now handled 8 mobs (4 for a solid duration and 4 for a limited time) and from this point onward, it’s mostly up to the dps of your AOE combined with the healing of your healer to get the job done.
No warrior tank can hold reasonable threat on more than 8 mobs, the mathematical reality of healing threat and TPT limits simply precludes it. If you are, it's because you are well over-geared for the encounter and simply don't need the heals.
Holding threat on multiple mobs is a matter of applying as much threat per time as possible.
Cleave does not apply the most threat per time and is only useful as a rage dump against targets that already have more threat on them than you really need to keep control.
To state otherwise is simply to ignore the mathematics of the game engine. Your statement in your guide is:
Tabbing targets and then using Cleave followed by a Shield Slam, Devastate, or Revenge is the best way to tank multiple mobs. This implies that one should start a multi-target sequence with cleave to establish the best threat. That is false, I showed you the calculations to prove it. It also implies that cleave is part of a standard rotation in a multi-target environment to establish maximum threat. That is also false.
Edited, Jul 18th 2008 11:59am by kingpatzer
