To me, Retribution Aura seems to be the biggest misnomer in WoW, and is additionaly in the wrong talent tree.
As a Retribution Paladin, you are almost never going to be using this Aura. At the lower levels when you CAN tank stuff as a Ret, sure you are going to use it if you are the main tank in a 5-man like Uldaman or something like that, but that is about it. I don't know of ANY Retribution Paladins that put talent points into improving this talent, because once you have Sanctity Aura, Retribution Aura is completely off your list of Auras to use.
I have limited experience playing a Protection Paladin (hope to have more soon!), but it seems like Protection Paladins would use this Aura a LOT... it provides quite a bit of additional passive holy damage, and when you are tanking large groups, it just provides that much more threat, so I would think it would get used by a tankadin, especially if there are multiple Paladins in the group or raid that would provide other useful Auras.
SO... I think that Retribution Aura should be renamed, and that Improved (whateveryoucallit) Aura should also go into the Prot Tree. Blizzard can't call it Thorns like they did in Diablo 2, since Druids already have a buff called Thorns....
Maybe call it Divine Spikes or something silly like that and have Improved Divine Spikes in the Prot Tree. Even though all Prots do spend at least SOME points in the Ret. tree, I don't think many (if any) take Improved Retribution Aura as there are better things to take.
Would putting this into the Prot tree actually help with threat generation? When Protection Paladins get to raid content are they still USING retribution Aura? Would it be worth being able to improve this Aura as a Prot or would the additional threat generation be to minimal to worry about?
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lol - there are a good chunk of talents that seem to be in the wrong trees.
Blessed Life - why is that in the Holy tree?
Sacred Duty - The +Sta is good, but why all the Divine Shield buffs? How often does a tank bubble up to loose aggro? Give those Divine Shield buffs to a Ret Paladin.
Imp Conc Aura - Is this for all the tanking spells that have long cast times? :P
There are more, but that is just a start.
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 4:03pm by YJMark
Blessed Life - why is that in the Holy tree?
Sacred Duty - The +Sta is good, but why all the Divine Shield buffs? How often does a tank bubble up to loose aggro? Give those Divine Shield buffs to a Ret Paladin.
Imp Conc Aura - Is this for all the tanking spells that have long cast times? :P
There are more, but that is just a start.
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 4:03pm by YJMark
jeromesimina wrote:
To me, Retribution Aura seems to be the biggest misnomer in WoW, and is additionaly in the wrong talent tree.
At the risk of revealing my inner pedant, Retribution Aura is not a misnomer at all. It does EXACTLY what the name implies it does, ie. exact retribution on anyone attacking you. Granted, it's not a particularly effective retribution (I get hit for 4k, aura deals 36(?) damage back to what hit me), but it is still doing exactly what the name says it does.
Sorry, had to get that off my chest >.>
But yeah, I never use this when I'm specced Ret...
Ret aura goes back to the time before Sanc aura. i used to prefer Ret aura over Devo in pvp due to the extra dmg it put out. it doesn't seem like much now, but back in the day it was actually substancial. imagine a 3k hp rogue slicin n dicin his way to death or a prot warrior takin more dmg than he's puttin out on you.
the problem lies when Ret aura got lost in translation. actually the entire paladin class gets stirred around periodically and then get puts on the back burner again. remember Kings as a bottom tier talent? :O
my biggest beef with the paladin talent grid is that there has never been a definitive support tree. all the specs have much needed talents in the other trees. this is true for many other classes, but the problem lies when you need to drop 2 tiers worth of seemly worthless pts to get those talents as a pally. a stand alone support tree could give the talents for: mana efficiency, buffs, resists, imp spells, etc etc.
druids accomodate the 3 main specs beautifully using the Resto tree. they even leave room for 2 types of viable dps should you choose. as a pally you get left with a 3rd rate MT(save aoe non-leets), a gawd awful OT, a middle-pack melee dps with no tricks, and a world class single target healer who wears tank armor but gets soggy when wet.
edit: sry for taking the thread off topic and ranting a bit.
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 7:50pm by tommyguns
the problem lies when Ret aura got lost in translation. actually the entire paladin class gets stirred around periodically and then get puts on the back burner again. remember Kings as a bottom tier talent? :O
my biggest beef with the paladin talent grid is that there has never been a definitive support tree. all the specs have much needed talents in the other trees. this is true for many other classes, but the problem lies when you need to drop 2 tiers worth of seemly worthless pts to get those talents as a pally. a stand alone support tree could give the talents for: mana efficiency, buffs, resists, imp spells, etc etc.
druids accomodate the 3 main specs beautifully using the Resto tree. they even leave room for 2 types of viable dps should you choose. as a pally you get left with a 3rd rate MT(save aoe non-leets), a gawd awful OT, a middle-pack melee dps with no tricks, and a world class single target healer who wears tank armor but gets soggy when wet.
edit: sry for taking the thread off topic and ranting a bit.
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 7:50pm by tommyguns
Middle-pack dps with no tricks?
I think the fact that a well-geared ret paladin can do explosive burst damage while also having utilities like powerful heals and invulnerablility is a big trick in itself. Any opponent who has ever run in panic from me ivincible-PoJ-sprinting after them while firing off crusader strike/judgement of command crits, interrupting anything they try to do with hammer of justice/repentence/arcane torrent probably wouldn't see ret paladins in the light you described.
(Although..... i do kinda wish the pvp aspect wasn't so focused around one ability. I'm looking foward to seeing what's in store for paladins in the expansion)
I think the fact that a well-geared ret paladin can do explosive burst damage while also having utilities like powerful heals and invulnerablility is a big trick in itself. Any opponent who has ever run in panic from me ivincible-PoJ-sprinting after them while firing off crusader strike/judgement of command crits, interrupting anything they try to do with hammer of justice/repentence/arcane torrent probably wouldn't see ret paladins in the light you described.
(Although..... i do kinda wish the pvp aspect wasn't so focused around one ability. I'm looking foward to seeing what's in store for paladins in the expansion)
It would be way cooler if it was based on a percentage damage reflection. That is, instead of you getting hit for 4k and throwing 36 damage back, you get hit for 4k and throw 400 damage back. Also if it actually reflected the damage; like, you ignore the X% of the hit that the aura bounces back. So, you would take 3.6k, and the other guy would take 400. 10% is a bit too much, but you get the idea.
I've always thought that auras need some love...there are so many potential ideas. Like Brilliance Aura from WC3, to help with mana regen, or a Might Aura to give a blanket-wide AP bonus. Instead, over the course of the entire game we have seen only two additions. Auras should be a really fundamental aspect of a paladin's playstyle, like combo points for rogues, rather than the tacked-on buff they are now.
I've always thought that auras need some love...there are so many potential ideas. Like Brilliance Aura from WC3, to help with mana regen, or a Might Aura to give a blanket-wide AP bonus. Instead, over the course of the entire game we have seen only two additions. Auras should be a really fundamental aspect of a paladin's playstyle, like combo points for rogues, rather than the tacked-on buff they are now.
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
I think the fact that a well-geared ret paladin can do explosive burst damage while also having utilities like powerful heals and invulnerablility is a big trick in itself.
Show me a Ret Paladin that can do that kind of damage and still have big heals, and I'll call it a trick. No, trick isn't the right word. I think "hack" would be more appropriate ;)
My Paladin has pretty pathetic heals as Prot, but as Ret, they're downright laughable. If you've got a Ret Paladin pumping out big heals, something's wrong.
Not powerful then. But the ability is there.
I love my ret paladin in pvp. If divine shield is off CD, it almost seems unfair, that's certainly what everyone else seems to think when i beat them using it outside Org. The class certainly ain't broken in pvp. PVE is a completely different discussion.
I love my ret paladin in pvp. If divine shield is off CD, it almost seems unfair, that's certainly what everyone else seems to think when i beat them using it outside Org. The class certainly ain't broken in pvp. PVE is a completely different discussion.
Quote:
Middle-pack dps with no tricks?
dps really only applies to pve. in pvp, nothing is "per second". you either get the job done or you dont. for a Ret pally that jobs needs to get done in 20 secs or less, otherwise you may consider it a fail. we have long cooldowns on every offensive ability respectively. this makes us **** poor vs any healing spec and mediocre vs kiting classes. obviously if someone is stupid enough to stay in your melee range they will get a hurt pounding.
I'm sporting 0/40/21 threat-spec atm, testing it out, and I actually have 2 points in Improved Retribution Aura, despite having Sanctity, in the case of such luxury as having another Retrybution paladin in my group while aoetanking.
Well, it now looks like from the new WOTLK talent trees, ret Paladins will be using Ret Aura and tankadins will be using devotion aura, while holy Paladins will be using concentration, so at least SOME of this looks like it is getting fixed.
jeromesimina wrote:
Well, it now looks like from the new WOTLK talent trees, ret Paladins will be using Ret Aura and tankadins will be using devotion aura, while holy Paladins will be using concentration, so at least SOME of this looks like it is getting fixed.
I was suprised nobody said it sooner...rate up.
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