So I was looking over the changes in WotLK and say a HUGE difference in eviscerate whereas rupture remains unchanged...Does anyone else see eviscerate as the possible new finisher or is this just me?
Current Eviscerate is:
Eviscerate (Rank 10):
1 point 245 to 365 damage
2 points 430 to 550 damage
3 points 615 to 735 damage
4 points 800 to 920 damage
5 points 985 to 1105 damage
Whereas the new one is:
Eviscerate (Rank 12):
1 point 497 to 751 damage
2 points 867 to 1121 damage
3 points 1237 to 1491 damage
4 points 1607 to 1861 damage
5 points 1977 to 2231 damage
And here is rupture:
Rupture (Rank 8):
1 point 324 damage over 8 secs
2 points 460 damage over 10 secs
3 points 618 damage over 12 secs
4 points 798 damage over 14 secs
5 points 1000 damage over 16 secs
I think Rupture is a typo though, seeing how it is the same damage as Rupture (Rank 7)
I'm intrested to see what you guys think
All cited from http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Main_Page
Edited, Jul 10th 2008 1:09pm by imanohealu
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Eviscerate vs Rupture in WotLKFollow
If that's a typo and there's a jump in attack power with WotLK (like I assume there was with TBC, but I started after release), then rupture may well still be the best finisher for bosses.
That's what I thought but with Cut to the Chase in deep Assassination I gathered that Blizard is trying to revive eviscerate as a rogue finisher, but on that note they also have Blood Splatter that increases Rupture damage by 20%
Edited, Jul 10th 2008 1:44pm by imanohealu
Edited, Jul 10th 2008 1:44pm by imanohealu
It used to be a useful finisher in PvP. Now I have to spend all my combo points on either kidney shot, expose armor or rupture.
And before anyone comments on me not being wary of how each eviscerate and rupture scale I know rupture revieves:
1pt = Attack Power * 0.04 + 324
2pt = Attack Power * 0.10 + 460
3pt = Attack Power * 0.18 + 618
4pt = Attack Power * 0.21 + 798
5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1000
And that eviscerate recieves:
Modifier = Attack Power * (Number of Combo Points used * 0.03)
Eviscerate = (Base Damage Minimum + Modifier) - (Base Damage Maximum + Modifier)
Critical Eviscerate = Eviscerate Damage Range * 2
So hypothetically if we have 10,000 AP, which is a lot, this means that before any buffs or armor calculated in we have 3,400 damage on Rupture and 3,477 - 3,731 with Eviscerate and with Cut to the Chase that means that we can do a 6954 - 7462 damage AND get slice and dice.
But this is without Blood Splatter (20%), Mangle(30%), and the new warrior ability Trauma(30%), and if you wanna do it you can get Serrated Blades(30%) as a 51/0/20
And all that eviscerate has is 15% from Improved Eviscerate... I would calculate Rupture damage but is it Multiplicative or Additive so if you guys want to tell that'll help :-)
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 12:38am by imanohealu
1pt = Attack Power * 0.04 + 324
2pt = Attack Power * 0.10 + 460
3pt = Attack Power * 0.18 + 618
4pt = Attack Power * 0.21 + 798
5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1000
And that eviscerate recieves:
Modifier = Attack Power * (Number of Combo Points used * 0.03)
Eviscerate = (Base Damage Minimum + Modifier) - (Base Damage Maximum + Modifier)
Critical Eviscerate = Eviscerate Damage Range * 2
So hypothetically if we have 10,000 AP, which is a lot, this means that before any buffs or armor calculated in we have 3,400 damage on Rupture and 3,477 - 3,731 with Eviscerate and with Cut to the Chase that means that we can do a 6954 - 7462 damage AND get slice and dice.
But this is without Blood Splatter (20%), Mangle(30%), and the new warrior ability Trauma(30%), and if you wanna do it you can get Serrated Blades(30%) as a 51/0/20
And all that eviscerate has is 15% from Improved Eviscerate... I would calculate Rupture damage but is it Multiplicative or Additive so if you guys want to tell that'll help :-)
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 12:38am by imanohealu
From wowwiki.com
Base
1 324 damage / 8 seconds
2 460 damage / 10 seconds
3 618 damage / 12 seconds
4 798 damage / 14 seconds
5 1000 damage / 16 seconds
Formula
1pt = Attack Power * 0.04 + 324
2pt = Attack Power * 0.10 + 460
3pt = Attack Power * 0.18 + 618
4pt = Attack Power * 0.21 + 798
5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1000
Dmg/tick
1pt x 4 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.01 + 81
2pt x 5 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.02 + 92
3pt x 6 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.03 + 103
4pt x 7 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.03 + 114
5pt x 8 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.03 + 125
Base
1 324 damage / 8 seconds
2 460 damage / 10 seconds
3 618 damage / 12 seconds
4 798 damage / 14 seconds
5 1000 damage / 16 seconds
Formula
1pt = Attack Power * 0.04 + 324
2pt = Attack Power * 0.10 + 460
3pt = Attack Power * 0.18 + 618
4pt = Attack Power * 0.21 + 798
5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1000
Dmg/tick
1pt x 4 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.01 + 81
2pt x 5 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.02 + 92
3pt x 6 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.03 + 103
4pt x 7 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.03 + 114
5pt x 8 ticks at = Attack Power * 0.03 + 125
They're trying to make evis more useful than it currently is in PvP; I highly doubt they're trying to replace rupture in PvE.
32 posts
Quote:
They're trying to make evis more useful than it currently is in PvP; I highly doubt they're trying to replace rupture in PvE.
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I concur... Theo stated earlier that they're going to scale up evis in the expansion on another post. Overall they're going to improve it, but the biggest area you'll see the improvement is in pvp. I think with the way talents are now for the WotLK... 51/20/0 will be a very strong dagger pve build. Mutilate builds already get fast Combo point generation, and with the new talent that gives melee crits a 30% chance to give you 3 energy... evis can easily be thrown in on your rotations every other cycle or so while a rupture is still in mid-length. I wouldn't know the exact order for rotations as that build atm... but you get my point. Cut to the Chase as it stands is almost useless for that build since getting a 5pt SnD isn't that hard as Mut.
I reckon the basic idea of Cut to the Chase is actually removing S&D from your rotation and keeping it up simply by critting Evis. Problem is that it's not good enough to do that right now...
sorry double post
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 10:43pm by imanohealu
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 10:43pm by imanohealu
Quote:
I reckon the basic idea of Cut to the Chase is actually removing S&D from your rotation and keeping it up simply by critting Evis. Problem is that it's not good enough to do that right now...
Please do elaborate upon this statement... Do tell us how it is not good enough, having SnD on the target and then throwing out even a 1 point eviscerate that crits refreshes it to it's 5 point maximum which with Imp. SnD is 30 seconds... Which I feel is worth it at the cost on 1 combo point and doing damage. So please avoid this if you don't want to improve your dps substantially, as mutilate that is.
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 10:43pm by imanohealu
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it sucks. I just think it's too unreliable. If it was say, a 5 point S&D for each eviscerate you could reliably work it into rotations (yes, I realize THAT might be overpowered, it's just an example of what might make it a more reliable talent). At the moment, what can occur is the following; you've got 4/5 seconds left on S&D and you're full on combo points. Instead of refreshing you aim to throw a crit eviscerate. But it doesn't crit, gets dodged, or whatever. Boom combo points, boom S&D, boom DPS. At the moment it's only useful if you A) get a lucky eviscerate crit in, thus restting S&D, thus moving you 'back' in your rotation and allowing you to use your energy for things other than S&D, and B) Spamming 1 combo point eviscerates to reset your S&D timer... Problem here is that you need an insane amount of +crit or luck to get that to work.
It isn't bad, it's just too unreliable for a talent. As it stands now each rotation you get the 'choice' to take the risk and use your combo's for an eviscerate, hoping for a crit, or just going with rupture/a new S&D. Improving DPS is all good, but the last thing I'd want to do is take the risk my DPS would be gimped for a bit.
Edit: To make it more clear, compare Cut to the Chase with Prey on the Weak. Which would you rather have, a pretty much constant overal DPS boost or the possibility of taking a risk which could lead to either more DPS or less DPS?
Edited, Jul 12th 2008 2:49pm by Mozared
It isn't bad, it's just too unreliable for a talent. As it stands now each rotation you get the 'choice' to take the risk and use your combo's for an eviscerate, hoping for a crit, or just going with rupture/a new S&D. Improving DPS is all good, but the last thing I'd want to do is take the risk my DPS would be gimped for a bit.
Edit: To make it more clear, compare Cut to the Chase with Prey on the Weak. Which would you rather have, a pretty much constant overal DPS boost or the possibility of taking a risk which could lead to either more DPS or less DPS?
Edited, Jul 12th 2008 2:49pm by Mozared
I'm not saying mutilate is better then combat in any way, however I am saying that AS mutilate this talent will increase your dps, and yes it is unreliable currently, if they want to fix however they could easily just make so a 1 point eviscerate gets you 1 point slice and dice regardless of critting or not. And also this talent is not necessarily the topic of this discussion it is wether or not rupture is going to be better then eviscerate in WotLK, and this talent, might put it over the edge and also Ruthlessness helps out in being able to 1 CP eviscerate over and over again until you achieve a crit.
32 posts
It's too early to tell if Evis will overtake rupture in PvE. But to get to the point of Cut to the Chase... in order to dump the 5points into that, you're going to miss out on either Deadly Brew, Devious Poisons, Focused Attacks, and/or Bloodspatter. If you spec Cut to the Chase, you have to put 3/3 into Imp. Evis... so that limits even more points in that spec. Assassination is big on poisons, and frankly not getting Imp. Poisons, Deadly Brew, and Devious Poison will gimp you. As mutilate, you open with garrote typically... so Bloodspatter gives Mut rogues more dmg there, and Focused Attacks is like a little Combat Potency for an already energy and CP gorged spec. I'll definitely forego getting Cut to the Chase and Imp. Evis in favor of getting 40% more damage on my instant and deadly poisons and getting 20% more damage on my ruptures. I say rupture will still be the best choice.
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