Now, I am in no way a newb or noob when it comes to warriors, but I have been focused on other classes as of late, and my mind hasn't been in tip-top form lately either.
Me
I have recently respecced to tank, and after trying to get a decent amount of defense, I realize I have gone a bit over the max needed. (And I'm still missing leggings and a trinket)
I currently have 504 def, 32% avoidance and 11k health.
Now I know I obviously need more health (I'm thinking the Timewardens leggings with 12 stam gems in each slot, the compass from H UB, and changing my boots for the plate boots from the second boss in bot, with 2 +12 stam gems in it and a fort chant).
What gear do you suggest that I get to make my tanking set up better?
(I'm also contemplating changing the felsteel helm for the helm of the bold)
Edited, Jul 7th 2008 12:58am by RuinatorVek
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Dawnforged Defender would be a big upgrade on your shield, and it's a rep reward for SSO (which is good $$ anyway).
If you can get it at a reasonable price, the Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer would be a crafted upgrade over your current ranged weapon (+39 stamina on it if you socket with a Solid Star of Elune).
If you're hurting on HP, consider resocketing with Solid Stars and losing some of your socketing bonuses. It also doesn't look like you've enchanted your gear. 3x Solid Stars + an armor kit would add ~52 stamina to your leggings. The Keepers of Time helm enchant would add more defense rating (and let you shift more gear to stamina and/or other stats).
In terms of (non-heroic) instance drops, Adamantite Figurine drops from the 2nd boss of SLabs, and Devilshark Cape drops from the last boss in SV. Both seem to be pretty stingy with their drops though.
I haven't looked through heroic loot tables in depth enough to rattle them off, but hope that helps a bit.
If you can get it at a reasonable price, the Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer would be a crafted upgrade over your current ranged weapon (+39 stamina on it if you socket with a Solid Star of Elune).
If you're hurting on HP, consider resocketing with Solid Stars and losing some of your socketing bonuses. It also doesn't look like you've enchanted your gear. 3x Solid Stars + an armor kit would add ~52 stamina to your leggings. The Keepers of Time helm enchant would add more defense rating (and let you shift more gear to stamina and/or other stats).
In terms of (non-heroic) instance drops, Adamantite Figurine drops from the 2nd boss of SLabs, and Devilshark Cape drops from the last boss in SV. Both seem to be pretty stingy with their drops though.
I haven't looked through heroic loot tables in depth enough to rattle them off, but hope that helps a bit.
Your geared fine for heroics. So that's a good place to start looking for gear upgrades. You'll want more effective health for raids, but you seem to know what you want.
Socket bonuses are not as good as 12 sta gems for earning your raid wings. You can get the 10 stam glove enchant from a leatherworker, 150 hp on chest is cheap, 12 agi to cloak is nice or the 150 armor or the 12 defense enchant, 12 sta to bracer. that's another 381 hp.
Your build is alright, but imp taunt is frowned upon. imp defensive stance is situational at best, and I recommend something else.
2/5 imp demo shout. This will help with a lot of things. avoidance tanking means you'll fold like paper when you get unlucky. Reducing the incoming damage can be serious. (yes I know I currently am not specced for it)
3/3 imp revenge is very handy to reduce incoming damage. 3 seconds of stun is 3 seconds of no damage from that mob.
imp shield bash is really nice too. especially against spell casting mobs, canceling a heal is important, but canceling a heal and silencing the mob means you'll take less spell damage.
Socket bonuses are not as good as 12 sta gems for earning your raid wings. You can get the 10 stam glove enchant from a leatherworker, 150 hp on chest is cheap, 12 agi to cloak is nice or the 150 armor or the 12 defense enchant, 12 sta to bracer. that's another 381 hp.
Your build is alright, but imp taunt is frowned upon. imp defensive stance is situational at best, and I recommend something else.
2/5 imp demo shout. This will help with a lot of things. avoidance tanking means you'll fold like paper when you get unlucky. Reducing the incoming damage can be serious. (yes I know I currently am not specced for it)
3/3 imp revenge is very handy to reduce incoming damage. 3 seconds of stun is 3 seconds of no damage from that mob.
imp shield bash is really nice too. especially against spell casting mobs, canceling a heal is important, but canceling a heal and silencing the mob means you'll take less spell damage.
Alright well I just gotta wait till I can be on long enough and get full motivation for doing the SSO dailies (Not even honored with them yet).
I don't think I need more defense (im at 512 currently, and I heard the max needed was 495).
I got the timewardens legguards (Tanked BM last night and got that last bit of rep).
Got 3 +12 gems into it, just need to get the g's for the head enchant and the leg enchant (Although I'm thinking of changing my helm before I but a chant on it. Would this be a good idea?)
Edit:
Also the reason for imp taunt and imp def stance is because I haven't tanked in....maybe over a year.
Didn't wanna try jumping straight back into the deep end.
Thought I'd go with a build that's fine for 5-man's and that would also help me keep aggro until I've gotten my rotation in order.
Edited, Jul 7th 2008 10:15pm by RuinatorVek
I don't think I need more defense (im at 512 currently, and I heard the max needed was 495).
I got the timewardens legguards (Tanked BM last night and got that last bit of rep).
Got 3 +12 gems into it, just need to get the g's for the head enchant and the leg enchant (Although I'm thinking of changing my helm before I but a chant on it. Would this be a good idea?)
Edit:
Also the reason for imp taunt and imp def stance is because I haven't tanked in....maybe over a year.
Didn't wanna try jumping straight back into the deep end.
Thought I'd go with a build that's fine for 5-man's and that would also help me keep aggro until I've gotten my rotation in order.
Edited, Jul 7th 2008 10:15pm by RuinatorVek
people always tell me imp taunt is not worth it. ive found lots of use for it since i pug alot, and imp revenge = less rage from getting attacked so ive never gotten that one either.
if you group with some solid players 100% of the time, i could see imp taunt being kinda useless.
if you group with some solid players 100% of the time, i could see imp taunt being kinda useless.
My argument against imp taunt is this. If you have to use taunt on cooldown, your doing something wrong.
or your group is... like focus DPSing off tank targets.
yeah, i pug and people are @#%^ing retards
seriously though, it comes in handy when CC gets broken, resisted, etc.
Edited, Jul 8th 2008 8:32am by KTurner
yeah, i pug and people are @#%^ing retards
seriously though, it comes in handy when CC gets broken, resisted, etc.
Edited, Jul 8th 2008 8:32am by KTurner
I use the "you spank it you tank it" rule when I do pugs. After a few deaths they get the picture. I'll only save the healer as that is my job.
Well now, I agree with you mostly Jimpadan. But that only works if the healer is either on board or good enough to heal you and the rogue. When the rogue falls, don't you then have to rush across to pick up the aggro from that loose mob again?
It becomes very obvious who caused the wipe ... but when I tank, I try to avoid wipes. Period.
I would rather have to pull back mobs 3-4 times then unvite the person than run back from the GY 3 times until he gets the picture.
It becomes very obvious who caused the wipe ... but when I tank, I try to avoid wipes. Period.
I would rather have to pull back mobs 3-4 times then unvite the person than run back from the GY 3 times until he gets the picture.
Daymer wrote:
when I tank, I try to avoid wipes. Period.
QFT.
I barely have the time to finish an instance when it goes well. GY runs, wipes and players leaving are not options i like to consider
My problem with improved taunt is not that it isn't useful, it's that other talents are more useful.
The best builds for doing 5-man heroics are the 11/7/43 and 12/5/44 builds, and there's already sacrifices being made in the prot tree for things that effect efficiency more than taunt.
If you're also off-tanking or main-tanking in ZA or higher, then you're probably sporting 8/5/48 or similar, and you still don't have all everything you want in the prot tree prior to taunt.
The reality is the other players have to know their jobs. If they don't, then the group is going to suck, regardless of the warrior build. Let's face it, if the mage doesn't know not to generate 130% of the tank's threat, the probably doesn't know how to use a focus/sheep macro so he can resheep without having to find the target.
The best builds for doing 5-man heroics are the 11/7/43 and 12/5/44 builds, and there's already sacrifices being made in the prot tree for things that effect efficiency more than taunt.
If you're also off-tanking or main-tanking in ZA or higher, then you're probably sporting 8/5/48 or similar, and you still don't have all everything you want in the prot tree prior to taunt.
The reality is the other players have to know their jobs. If they don't, then the group is going to suck, regardless of the warrior build. Let's face it, if the mage doesn't know not to generate 130% of the tank's threat, the probably doesn't know how to use a focus/sheep macro so he can resheep without having to find the target.
I always make sure the healer is on board. If someone pulls aggro off me they aren't healed and said mob comes right back to me. They ***** at the healer for not healing them, then they ***** at me for not saving them. Then both me and the healer call them a ****** for dpsing the wrong target and carry on.
Positive reinforcement doesn't work in the world or warcraft.
Positive reinforcement doesn't work in the world or warcraft.
friends don't let friends spec imp taunt - now back to the OP...
there is no real "max" to defense. there is a MINIMUM of 490, but every point after that adds to your avoidance, almost the same amount as a point of dodge.
specwise, i would definitely lose imp taunt and imp def stance. improved SW is a maybe depending on what fights you're doing - not really needed for 5-mans. improved bloodrage is very helpful, allowing you to start off every pull with a shield slam. i also like improved shield bash for 5-mans. if you're finding yourself rage-starved often, move to an 11/5/45 build to pick up anger management.
for your gear, there are exactly two pieces of PVP gear that are protection worthy, and they are huge upgrades for you. merc shield and merc shoulders. it would be very easy for you to pick them both up. put +18 stam on the shield and you'll keep it as your progression shield for a long time.
felsteel is a great helm; focus on other things:
get some new boots - the ones from the mana tombs escort are super easy to get, then go for the ones off the final boss of MrT, or heroic blood furnace. you can also get a nice thrown upgrade in MrT if you go there. trinkets and rings should be easy to come by; there are quest rewards from both netherstorm and SMV that are good upgrades.
replace gems in waist and gloves with +12 stam, and get some enchants!
+12 stam to boots and bracers
+240 armor to gloves
LW leg patch
+150 hp to chest
+120 armor to cloak
+15 or +20 agility to weapon (much cheaper than mongoose)
head glyph from KoT
while you're waiting for the enchants, at least put +10 stam patches everywhere. and you can make 120g/day just doing one sweep of the island, so $$ should not be an obstacle.
there is no real "max" to defense. there is a MINIMUM of 490, but every point after that adds to your avoidance, almost the same amount as a point of dodge.
specwise, i would definitely lose imp taunt and imp def stance. improved SW is a maybe depending on what fights you're doing - not really needed for 5-mans. improved bloodrage is very helpful, allowing you to start off every pull with a shield slam. i also like improved shield bash for 5-mans. if you're finding yourself rage-starved often, move to an 11/5/45 build to pick up anger management.
for your gear, there are exactly two pieces of PVP gear that are protection worthy, and they are huge upgrades for you. merc shield and merc shoulders. it would be very easy for you to pick them both up. put +18 stam on the shield and you'll keep it as your progression shield for a long time.
felsteel is a great helm; focus on other things:
get some new boots - the ones from the mana tombs escort are super easy to get, then go for the ones off the final boss of MrT, or heroic blood furnace. you can also get a nice thrown upgrade in MrT if you go there. trinkets and rings should be easy to come by; there are quest rewards from both netherstorm and SMV that are good upgrades.
replace gems in waist and gloves with +12 stam, and get some enchants!
+12 stam to boots and bracers
+240 armor to gloves
LW leg patch
+150 hp to chest
+120 armor to cloak
+15 or +20 agility to weapon (much cheaper than mongoose)
head glyph from KoT
while you're waiting for the enchants, at least put +10 stam patches everywhere. and you can make 120g/day just doing one sweep of the island, so $$ should not be an obstacle.
Whoops. Wrong thread...
Edited, Jul 10th 2008 4:10pm by devioususer
Edited, Jul 10th 2008 4:10pm by devioususer
I'll probably wait to properly enchant my tank (as right now I'm focused on my priest).
I have done some dailies recently (Just hit Honored with SSO) but mainly to get mounts for my lvl 30 + toons.
I realise now how damn difficult it is to take down fire elementals in prot spec.
(Even when shield bashing the fire elemental to stop the felfire ball, it's harder to take down one lvl 69, than it is to take down 2 lvl 72 Flayers)
I have done some dailies recently (Just hit Honored with SSO) but mainly to get mounts for my lvl 30 + toons.
I realise now how damn difficult it is to take down fire elementals in prot spec.
(Even when shield bashing the fire elemental to stop the felfire ball, it's harder to take down one lvl 69, than it is to take down 2 lvl 72 Flayers)
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