New Poison Concepts for RoguesFollow

Try kiting a ret paladin. I dare you.

Lets take into the account that PvP is more than just arena, and while snaring melee to get them off your healers and teammates is always a good tactic. Maybe you can't see that I'm talking from a 1v1 perspective. Maybe you should play some other classes first to see exactly how much crippling affects you before you open your mouth. For those of us who have other 70s, you know what I'm talking about when i say crippling affects ranged more so than melee. On a warrior, crippling only makes the fight longer because as a warrior you welcome rogues that decide to go toe to toe with you. I'm comfortable in saying that when fighting rogues, warriors have a supreme advantage over us. Wars can give 2 ***** about rogues, so dont sit there and say crippling affects them to the extent of other classes.

Try playing a priest Theophany and tell me that the crippling poison on you has the same impact on you as the warrior for survival. A ranged dps is supposed to be as far from melee as possible to increase their dps and survival, so... crippling poison affects them more than a melee. That is my opinion, and when you actually get an educated one based on your own observations from playing more than one class, then you can respond with yours.

Then again asking you to understand something that's outside of your proverbial box is like asking Israel and Palestine to forget their differences and makeup. It's not going to happen. Why dont you spend less time making stupid commments and work on getting a 2k rating as you apparently seem to think you are the god of arena... but yet you can't seem to break a 2k rating for all the trash you talk. All you do is flame threads and you do it in such an immature manner... So continue to be a flamer. Pardon the pun, as im sure you wouldn't have gotten it had i not said anything.

So quit reading arena forums of rogues that have higher ratings than you and copy-pasting their ideas. If you were as half as good as you thought you were, you'd be in the 2k and up range. Dont blame your teammates either... When you grow up you'll come to realize the fact that it isn't always someone else's fault.

I'm sorry my friend, YOU FAIL.















"Flame on"- The Human Torch

To those of you who seem to have a personal vendetta against Theo:

We all know that he is rough and abrasive, and, whether it is warranted or not, that's how he is. And he's not going to change just because you insult him. If you are going to argue with him, use facts that you can back up with data, but lay off the personal attacks because they won't stop him, and they just make the forum that much harder to read. You can't drive him away, and I, for one, wouldn't want you to. Despite his attitude, he's helped probably hundreds of rogues through these forums, and to lose him would be a real loss to the community. He's right more often than he's wrong, and I have yet to see him proven wrong and NOT admit it when the data is against him. But just because he disagrees with you, doesn't mean he's wrong and has nothing good to say just like simply because you disagree with him doesn't mean you're wrong and have nothing good to say.

But flame on, I know it's coming.

Read my first post in this thread. I posted a nice, calm post from my perspective on why the idea needed more work.

Then it got derailed by the OP getting butthurt and saying, "WELL WE HAS MIND NUMBING POISUN WHY NAWT A MELEE POISUN".

Then I got tired of his **** and decided to trash his opinion because he's a moron.

I'm not arguing so much for the fact that he's wrong on empirical data, but rather I think his opinion on the poisons and their usefulness on certain classes is inaccurate. I never stated he is completely wrong, as that would be a gross injustice. I, having played every class at 70 - except druid :( -, merely formed my own educated opinion about the matter due to my personal experience. Opinions are neither right nor wrong. They can however be misguided due to lack of research or personal experience with the matter at hand. But never right or wrong.

For me to suggest Theo to leave, or any member of these forums would be detrimental to essence of open discussion. By limiting the amount of feedback, you eventually narrow it down to a 1 sided discussion. Where the only people that are left are the ones that see your way. I'm not into totalarianism, so I for one would not like to see it come to that either Nazghul.

For the most part, I remained civil up unto the point Theo opened the flood gates with insults. But all in all it's just playful banter. I value Theo's insight, as I secretly know he loves me deep down inside with all his heart.

But back to the topic-
So far there's been tossed around:
Corrosive Poison (Lowers armor)
Bleed Poison (Increases bleed effects)
Melee/Ranged speed reduction poison

There could be a poison that could be similar to a hunter's viper sting, but not nearly as effective... though I think that would be extremely OP'd.

It would need to have a greatly reduced proc effect (much like Cheat Death), but I think it'd be more in line to give rogues a cooldown-based ability like that as opposed to a poison. Posions apply too fast for that to not be overpowered.

In all honesty, we have too many poisons already in PvP. I liked the idea of the Bleed buff poison, as it would really help out feral druids (who need a buff in PvE and PvP), but it needs reworking. I think that if rogues had that MH and Deadly OH, it would really help out on bosses, though they'd have to make the debuff act like Wound Poison when applied by more than one rogue; the highest has priority.

It'd be a lot of work for the coders (i.e. they'd have to code it so that rupture doesn't just start doing 300 a tick from 190 when the debuff got put up rather than just ticking at 190), but I think it would be a nice addition, as right now with the change coming to WF, I think our MH is really lacking a poison.

I like the idea of a poison that puts up a debuff that would proc a healing effect on crits, much like Imp Leader of the Pack, or Judgement of Light (kinda). It would be amazing for both PvP and for solo PvE. Maybe even having it a 5- or 10-stack effect for more healing.

It'd change up a lot of the notions about rogues, though I fear that having it stack to 5 or 10 would unknowingly buff druids too much.

Or rather than that... what about a poison that simply lifedrains?

Edit: Now that I think more about it, it actually sounds brilliant to me... in PvP it could find some use when stunlocking something... for PvE (raids) it could help out your healers as they won't have to heal you as much.

Edited, Jul 6th 2008 4:41am by Mozared

The single-target battlemaster of poisons?

Fun as all these theories are, we can't completely neglect lore. All the poisons thus far have been non-magical in nature, using only natural, non-magical ingredients. If you find a plant somewhere that, when you put it on a blade, restores health to you when you stab someone, more power to you. It's not really feasible though.

You've got to be pretty damn vicious to be spraying this guy's blood over 10 yards.

yeah but, if their blood coagulated, wouldn't they actually bleed less?

That blood salve thing is encroaching on Shadow Priest territory anyway. If you're really in such a position where your rogue has to change poisons to keep melee up - ignoring the poison's other bonuses - then get some better healers. Personally, I don't think it's a very good idea, though I'm sure there's room for more poisons out there.