Greetings
I've been trying to follow up on my WoW news but for the past 4 months i've been on deployment so it has been rather hard to keep up to date. I recently read in an article that "Dagger specialization will be improved in WotLK". I've yet to find any information to shed some light on that comment. I've looked for some leaked alpha talents and saw some incredible changes in the trees for rogues, particularly the subtlety tree for dagger rogues.
I was wanting to know if anyone knows anything about the changes coming to dagger rogues in the expansion or if no news is present at the time, what are your thoughts behind the statement. I for one hope they make the spec more viable for pve/pvp since i started WoW as a dagger rogue and then left them in the dust for the more optimum sword spec.
I would like to see some kind of group utility to be brought in for dagger rogues like a debuff from backstab crits, or a serious increase in their dps to be on par with swords. Thanks for your time.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Dagger Rogues in WotLK
Dagger Rogues in WotLKFollow
as a rogue it's only natural that you would be wielding daggers imho. With the statement that daggers will get some improvements i hope well see more dagger rogues again.
As an Orc rogue with maces, especially the arena ones i like like a crab. Stealthed and strafing i'm seriously a walking crab. When i walk backwards it's even worse, i turn into a micheal jackson crab with two ugly stick thingies.
The badge fists aren't better tho, i look (with T4 helmet) like a bird now, especially when jumping up and down.
What are we talking about again ? Daggers huh ? Gogo muti, i'd love to see the removal of poison and positional requirements on it. I would respec daggers in a heartbeat. I don't think rogues will be getting some sort of utility, but i'd love to be able to buff the raid somehow.
Let's hope for the best :P
As an Orc rogue with maces, especially the arena ones i like like a crab. Stealthed and strafing i'm seriously a walking crab. When i walk backwards it's even worse, i turn into a micheal jackson crab with two ugly stick thingies.
The badge fists aren't better tho, i look (with T4 helmet) like a bird now, especially when jumping up and down.
What are we talking about again ? Daggers huh ? Gogo muti, i'd love to see the removal of poison and positional requirements on it. I would respec daggers in a heartbeat. I don't think rogues will be getting some sort of utility, but i'd love to be able to buff the raid somehow.
Let's hope for the best :P
I seriously doubt that you'll see many more dagger rogues. The end Sub talents are too good for sword/mace rogues to warrant many people going mut.
Fingers crossed, regardless. Honor among thieves looked a very interesting talent to me. I suspect it to be nerfed not to include healing crits, which is a shame, but still.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
I seriously doubt that you'll see many more dagger rogues. The end Sub talents are too good for sword/mace rogues to warrant many people going mut.
kinda like shs/hemo dagger rogues?
32 posts
I for one like the idea of being able to open up with an ambush that can prevent item use for 8 seconds, then following it up with a backstab + KS. You'll need only one energy tick to pull that off... As that stands, the "prevent item use" might get nerfed but if it didn't... Imagine the possiblities.
RyphtheSwift wrote:
I for one like the idea of being able to open up with an ambush that can prevent item use for 8 seconds, then following it up with a backstab + KS. You'll need only one energy tick to pull that off... As that stands, the "prevent item use" might get nerfed but if it didn't... Imagine the possiblities.
Oh wow, they can't pot for 8 seconds. Holy crap nerf inc!
No, just kidding. It's worthless.
Even at 45 energy Backstab is fairly worthless. ShS is already energy-starved. Don't need to make it even more so.
BTW, if you think Ambush is a good opener, you don't know how to play a rogue.
Edit: To give an example, any ShS dagger rogue that thinks Ambush is a good opener, I give the chance to duel me. When one of them can get me lower than 50% before I kill them, I will say Ambush might be a decent opener.
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 12:48am by Theophany
32 posts
Quote:
Oh wow, they can't pot for 8 seconds. Holy crap nerf inc!
No, just kidding. It's worthless.
Even at 45 energy Backstab is fairly worthless. ShS is already energy-starved. Don't need to make it even more so.
BTW, if you think Ambush is a good opener, you don't know how to play a rogue.
Edit: To give an example, any ShS dagger rogue that thinks Ambush is a good opener, I give the chance to duel me. When one of them can get me lower than 50% before I kill them, I will say Ambush might be a decent opener.
No, just kidding. It's worthless.
Even at 45 energy Backstab is fairly worthless. ShS is already energy-starved. Don't need to make it even more so.
BTW, if you think Ambush is a good opener, you don't know how to play a rogue.
Edit: To give an example, any ShS dagger rogue that thinks Ambush is a good opener, I give the chance to duel me. When one of them can get me lower than 50% before I kill them, I will say Ambush might be a decent opener.
The Item use might be considered for the use of trinket... or perhaps that thought was too abstract.
Please be aware that the expansion is still being developed, which leaves plenty of room for Blizzard to make good on their word for them to buff daggers. As it stands now, ambush is not a good opener. I never said it was so please don't insinuate the matter. This post is merely entertaining the possibilities of daggers in the expansion, thus my response of...
Quote:
I for one like the idea of being able to open up with an ambush that can prevent item use for 8 seconds, then following it up with a backstab + KS. You'll need only one energy tick to pull that off... As that stands, the "prevent item use" might get nerfed but if it didn't... Imagine the possiblities.
... was staying within that context. I'm sorry you misunderstood me and the topic at hand. So I kindly ask you to refrain from insults on this thread. I'm sure we're all mature enough not to feign superiority and impose our elitist views- which is something you, Theophany, would never ever do in a thread.
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 6:28am by RyphtheSwift
RyphtheSwift wrote:
Quote:
Oh wow, they can't pot for 8 seconds. Holy crap nerf inc!
No, just kidding. It's worthless.
Even at 45 energy Backstab is fairly worthless. ShS is already energy-starved. Don't need to make it even more so.
BTW, if you think Ambush is a good opener, you don't know how to play a rogue.
Edit: To give an example, any ShS dagger rogue that thinks Ambush is a good opener, I give the chance to duel me. When one of them can get me lower than 50% before I kill them, I will say Ambush might be a decent opener.
No, just kidding. It's worthless.
Even at 45 energy Backstab is fairly worthless. ShS is already energy-starved. Don't need to make it even more so.
BTW, if you think Ambush is a good opener, you don't know how to play a rogue.
Edit: To give an example, any ShS dagger rogue that thinks Ambush is a good opener, I give the chance to duel me. When one of them can get me lower than 50% before I kill them, I will say Ambush might be a decent opener.
The Item use might be considered for the use of trinket... or perhaps that thought was too abstract.
Please be aware that the expansion is still being developed, which leaves plenty of room for Blizzard to make good on their word for them to buff daggers. As it stands now, ambush is not a good opener. I never said it was so please don't insinuate the matter. This post is merely entertaining the possibilities of daggers in the expansion, thus my response of...
Quote:
I for one like the idea of being able to open up with an ambush that can prevent item use for 8 seconds, then following it up with a backstab + KS. You'll need only one energy tick to pull that off... As that stands, the "prevent item use" might get nerfed but if it didn't... Imagine the possiblities.
... was staying within that context. I'm sorry you misunderstood me and the topic at hand. So I kindly ask you to refrain from insults on this thread. I'm sure we're all mature enough not to feign superiority and impose our elitist views- which is something you, Theophany, would never ever do in a thread.
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 6:28am by RyphtheSwift
I'm well aware of how the expansion is progressing, moreso than anyone on these forums, unless they're in the same position I'm in.
I didn't misunderstand you. Blizzard is attempting to buff daggers, but their attempts so far have not borne fruit.
I'm not feigning superiority. Feigning something implies that what is being acted out is in fact not the case, when I assure you, I am a better rogue than you.
BTW, Ambush -> BS -> KS would be fail. Grats on putting up a 3 pt KS. With how resilience works I'd rather see you garrote for more damage.
Edit: In case you don't understand why Ambush specs will still be dead at 80, here's a hint: resilience killed Ambush. There's no bringing it back without changing how it works (and an 8 sec debuff so you can't use items, regardless of whether that's trinkets, pots, etc is not changing it significantly enough), and that is going to take some true thought on Blizzard's part, and based on the direction they're taking Sub, it ain't gonna happen.
When they said they were gonna buff daggers, they just as easily could have meant Assassination, which has received an apparent large buff, both for PvP and PvE.
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 3:51am by Theophany
32 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Again we digress from the topic at hand. This should not become a matter of trying to dignify ourselves as, contrary to popular belief Theophany, it will not bestow any greater endowment to obvious physical "shortcomings." We can only make due with what we were given at birth, and you have my utmost sympathy as it appears you were given barely anything at all.
Lets us continue discussing the possibilities of daggers once again...
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 8:10am by RyphtheSwift
Quote:
I'm well aware of how the expansion is progressing, moreso than anyone on these forums, unless they're in the same position I'm in.
I didn't misunderstand you. Blizzard is attempting to buff daggers, but their attempts so far have not borne fruit.
I'm not feigning superiority. Feigning something implies that what is being acted out is in fact not the case, when I assure you, I am a better rogue than you.
BTW, Ambush -> BS -> KS would be fail. Grats on putting up a 3 pt KS. With how resilience works I'd rather see you garrote for more damage.
Edit: In case you don't understand why Ambush specs will still be dead at 80, here's a hint: resilience killed Ambush. There's no bringing it back without changing how it works (and an 8 sec debuff so you can't use items, regardless of whether that's trinkets, pots, etc is not changing it significantly enough), and that is going to take some true thought on Blizzard's part, and based on the direction they're taking Sub, it ain't gonna happen.
When they said they were gonna buff daggers, they just as easily could have meant Assassination, which has received an apparent large buff, both for PvP and PvE.
I didn't misunderstand you. Blizzard is attempting to buff daggers, but their attempts so far have not borne fruit.
I'm not feigning superiority. Feigning something implies that what is being acted out is in fact not the case, when I assure you, I am a better rogue than you.
BTW, Ambush -> BS -> KS would be fail. Grats on putting up a 3 pt KS. With how resilience works I'd rather see you garrote for more damage.
Edit: In case you don't understand why Ambush specs will still be dead at 80, here's a hint: resilience killed Ambush. There's no bringing it back without changing how it works (and an 8 sec debuff so you can't use items, regardless of whether that's trinkets, pots, etc is not changing it significantly enough), and that is going to take some true thought on Blizzard's part, and based on the direction they're taking Sub, it ain't gonna happen.
When they said they were gonna buff daggers, they just as easily could have meant Assassination, which has received an apparent large buff, both for PvP and PvE.
Again we digress from the topic at hand. This should not become a matter of trying to dignify ourselves as, contrary to popular belief Theophany, it will not bestow any greater endowment to obvious physical "shortcomings." We can only make due with what we were given at birth, and you have my utmost sympathy as it appears you were given barely anything at all.
Lets us continue discussing the possibilities of daggers once again...
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 8:10am by RyphtheSwift
RyphtheSwift wrote:
Quote:
I'm well aware of how the expansion is progressing, moreso than anyone on these forums, unless they're in the same position I'm in.
I didn't misunderstand you. Blizzard is attempting to buff daggers, but their attempts so far have not borne fruit.
I'm not feigning superiority. Feigning something implies that what is being acted out is in fact not the case, when I assure you, I am a better rogue than you.
BTW, Ambush -> BS -> KS would be fail. Grats on putting up a 3 pt KS. With how resilience works I'd rather see you garrote for more damage.
Edit: In case you don't understand why Ambush specs will still be dead at 80, here's a hint: resilience killed Ambush. There's no bringing it back without changing how it works (and an 8 sec debuff so you can't use items, regardless of whether that's trinkets, pots, etc is not changing it significantly enough), and that is going to take some true thought on Blizzard's part, and based on the direction they're taking Sub, it ain't gonna happen.
When they said they were gonna buff daggers, they just as easily could have meant Assassination, which has received an apparent large buff, both for PvP and PvE.
I didn't misunderstand you. Blizzard is attempting to buff daggers, but their attempts so far have not borne fruit.
I'm not feigning superiority. Feigning something implies that what is being acted out is in fact not the case, when I assure you, I am a better rogue than you.
BTW, Ambush -> BS -> KS would be fail. Grats on putting up a 3 pt KS. With how resilience works I'd rather see you garrote for more damage.
Edit: In case you don't understand why Ambush specs will still be dead at 80, here's a hint: resilience killed Ambush. There's no bringing it back without changing how it works (and an 8 sec debuff so you can't use items, regardless of whether that's trinkets, pots, etc is not changing it significantly enough), and that is going to take some true thought on Blizzard's part, and based on the direction they're taking Sub, it ain't gonna happen.
When they said they were gonna buff daggers, they just as easily could have meant Assassination, which has received an apparent large buff, both for PvP and PvE.
Again we digress from the topic at hand. This should not become a matter of trying to dignify ourselves as, contrary to popular belief Theophany, it will not bestow any greater endowment to obvious physical "shortcomings." We can only make due with what we were given at birth, and you have my utmost sympathy as it appears you were given barely anything at all.
Lets us continue discussing the possibilities of daggers once again...
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 8:10am by RyphtheSwift
I'm not the one straying from topic now.
It's not like I have access to accounts that are in Alpha or anything right now, but you continue to doubt my opinion.
Making you a moron.
It occurs that if you could go 30/0/41 and get the 45 energy backstab then it'd actually be good. BS, that is.
BTW, Theo, Premed. The KS would be 5 or 4 point. Yeah, it's not a good idea, but it's not a 3 sec KS either.
Waylay is very interesting to me for rogue/rogue and perhaps situationally Ambush to blind. I don't think it'll be good for much more than playing around, but we'll see.
BTW, Theo, Premed. The KS would be 5 or 4 point. Yeah, it's not a good idea, but it's not a 3 sec KS either.
Waylay is very interesting to me for rogue/rogue and perhaps situationally Ambush to blind. I don't think it'll be good for much more than playing around, but we'll see.
32 posts
TY Kavekk for using some intelligence.
If the waylay prevents trinket use...
Premed + Ambush + Backstab + KS = at least a 4point KS, if not a 5 point. Plenty of time for you then to pop into the Shadow Dance to finish it off. Maybe a garrote to silence the caster, then following up with a BS- reentering stealth to use another ambush just as the silence effect wears off... lots of possibilities and as Theo said earlier, it hinges on if they change the base values to backstab and ambush to make them deal more damage. But it will still be fun to mess around with nonetheless.
I can see Mut Rogues and Sub Dagger rogues having nice synergy with each other for burst and lockdown ability.
Quote:
It occurs that if you could go 30/0/41 and get the 45 energy backstab then it'd actually be good. BS, that is.
BTW, Theo, Premed. The KS would be 5 or 4 point. Yeah, it's not a good idea, but it's not a 3 sec KS either.
Waylay is very interesting to me for rogue/rogue and perhaps situationally Ambush to blind. I don't think it'll be good for much more than playing around, but we'll see
BTW, Theo, Premed. The KS would be 5 or 4 point. Yeah, it's not a good idea, but it's not a 3 sec KS either.
Waylay is very interesting to me for rogue/rogue and perhaps situationally Ambush to blind. I don't think it'll be good for much more than playing around, but we'll see
If the waylay prevents trinket use...
Premed + Ambush + Backstab + KS = at least a 4point KS, if not a 5 point. Plenty of time for you then to pop into the Shadow Dance to finish it off. Maybe a garrote to silence the caster, then following up with a BS- reentering stealth to use another ambush just as the silence effect wears off... lots of possibilities and as Theo said earlier, it hinges on if they change the base values to backstab and ambush to make them deal more damage. But it will still be fun to mess around with nonetheless.
I can see Mut Rogues and Sub Dagger rogues having nice synergy with each other for burst and lockdown ability.
Kavekk wrote:
It occurs that if you could go 30/0/41 and get the 45 energy backstab then it'd actually be good. BS, that is.
BTW, Theo, Premed. The KS would be 5 or 4 point. Yeah, it's not a good idea, but it's not a 3 sec KS either.
Waylay is very interesting to me for rogue/rogue and perhaps situationally Ambush to blind. I don't think it'll be good for much more than playing around, but we'll see.
BTW, Theo, Premed. The KS would be 5 or 4 point. Yeah, it's not a good idea, but it's not a 3 sec KS either.
Waylay is very interesting to me for rogue/rogue and perhaps situationally Ambush to blind. I don't think it'll be good for much more than playing around, but we'll see.
Yeah, I realize what Premed does. Following an ambush with a KS isn't a good idea though; the only use I could see is shattering a target, but in that case you're better off opening with CS -> KS.
Well I must admit I hadn't thought about that yet. Sounds damn interesting.
32 posts
Honestly it hinges on if they leave the "prevent item usage" on ambush crits...
I say Ambush + BS + KS or Ambush + KS could be interesting only for the fact if you can get that stun on them, they have to eat it. No trinketing out of it, providing you with plenty of time to setup the next series of moves. But alas... it also hangs on if they buff the base damage for dagger moves to make up for the risk of opening with a non crit ambush... If they dont, it will be more a gimmick than a utility.
But that brings me back to the Mut Rogue (Or Sword Sub Rogue for that matter) and the Sub Dagger rogue... If the two are in sync with each other, they can completely lockdown a person down with an opening CS->KS while the other rogue prevents them from trinketing out of it. In a 3v3, with the given Alpha talents - 2 sub rogues or mut/sub rogues could pick apart a person with little his or her teammates could do to prevent it. Hard to heal through that... and even then given the comp, you still have at least one rogue that can set focus on the healer(if they're not being dps'd) to ShS-Kick them whenever they try to put a heal up, and then use the speed buff to get back in range to keep dpsing. Not to mention dual blinds...
As for talents I can see something along the lines of maybe something of
Mut pvp:
53/0/18
Sub Dagger:
20/0/51
Give or take there are some talents in there that can be subbed out in those trees but they seem like they would be alright in pvp.
I say Ambush + BS + KS or Ambush + KS could be interesting only for the fact if you can get that stun on them, they have to eat it. No trinketing out of it, providing you with plenty of time to setup the next series of moves. But alas... it also hangs on if they buff the base damage for dagger moves to make up for the risk of opening with a non crit ambush... If they dont, it will be more a gimmick than a utility.
But that brings me back to the Mut Rogue (Or Sword Sub Rogue for that matter) and the Sub Dagger rogue... If the two are in sync with each other, they can completely lockdown a person down with an opening CS->KS while the other rogue prevents them from trinketing out of it. In a 3v3, with the given Alpha talents - 2 sub rogues or mut/sub rogues could pick apart a person with little his or her teammates could do to prevent it. Hard to heal through that... and even then given the comp, you still have at least one rogue that can set focus on the healer(if they're not being dps'd) to ShS-Kick them whenever they try to put a heal up, and then use the speed buff to get back in range to keep dpsing. Not to mention dual blinds...
As for talents I can see something along the lines of maybe something of
Mut pvp:
53/0/18
Sub Dagger:
20/0/51
Give or take there are some talents in there that can be subbed out in those trees but they seem like they would be alright in pvp.
RyphtheSwift wrote:
Honestly it hinges on if they leave the "prevent item usage" on ambush crits...
I say Ambush + BS + KS or Ambush + KS could be interesting only for the fact if you can get that stun on them, they have to eat it. No trinketing out of it, providing you with plenty of time to setup the next series of moves. But alas... it also hangs on if they buff the base damage for dagger moves to make up for the risk of opening with a non crit ambush... If they dont, it will be more a gimmick than a utility.
But that brings me back to the Mut Rogue (Or Sword Sub Rogue for that matter) and the Sub Dagger rogue... If the two are in sync with each other, they can completely lockdown a person down with an opening CS->KS while the other rogue prevents them from trinketing out of it. In a 3v3, with the given Alpha talents - 2 sub rogues or mut/sub rogues could pick apart a person with little his or her teammates could do to prevent it. Hard to heal through that... and even then given the comp, you still have at least one rogue that can set focus on the healer(if they're not being dps'd) to ShS-Kick them whenever they try to put a heal up, and then use the speed buff to get back in range to keep dpsing. Not to mention dual blinds...
As for talents I can see something along the lines of maybe something of
Mut pvp:
53/0/18
Sub Dagger:
20/0/51
Give or take there are some talents in there that can be subbed out in those trees but they seem like they would be alright in pvp.
I say Ambush + BS + KS or Ambush + KS could be interesting only for the fact if you can get that stun on them, they have to eat it. No trinketing out of it, providing you with plenty of time to setup the next series of moves. But alas... it also hangs on if they buff the base damage for dagger moves to make up for the risk of opening with a non crit ambush... If they dont, it will be more a gimmick than a utility.
But that brings me back to the Mut Rogue (Or Sword Sub Rogue for that matter) and the Sub Dagger rogue... If the two are in sync with each other, they can completely lockdown a person down with an opening CS->KS while the other rogue prevents them from trinketing out of it. In a 3v3, with the given Alpha talents - 2 sub rogues or mut/sub rogues could pick apart a person with little his or her teammates could do to prevent it. Hard to heal through that... and even then given the comp, you still have at least one rogue that can set focus on the healer(if they're not being dps'd) to ShS-Kick them whenever they try to put a heal up, and then use the speed buff to get back in range to keep dpsing. Not to mention dual blinds...
As for talents I can see something along the lines of maybe something of
Mut pvp:
53/0/18
Sub Dagger:
20/0/51
Give or take there are some talents in there that can be subbed out in those trees but they seem like they would be alright in pvp.
The main problem is that even with ~60% crit on BS for 45 energy, it's still weaker than hemo is. You have to take out some of the good talents in a ShS build to be able to accommodate a dagger ShS build.
That and most of the crit damage bonus that you'd see on BS is removed by resilience. It's one of the reasons you see so many people taking points out of Lethality right now for stuff like Imp EA and Vile Poisons.
Quote:
you still have at least one rogue that can set focus on the healer(if they're not being dps'd) to ShS-Kick them whenever they try to put a heal up,
Resto druids.
What you're saying already *somewhat* applies though, referring to the dual blinds here. I've got a rogue for arena partner, and our strategy is to try and nuke somebody down (I open CS, imp EA and my partner goes ambush+evis) while blinding his partner. If the partner trinkets, another blind goes for him. It's one of those strategies which technically always fails but in reality work quite well; nobody expects it. It's a gamble, if it pays off you're set, if it doesn't you're done for.
I'm honestly hoping for either kickass subtlety talents or plain useless ones... I can only imagine how powerful ShS+Seal Fate would be.
32 posts
Yeah, crit BS's and Ambush's dont do nearly enough damage for the energy dump. They have to do something to it's percentage value to make them viable once again... Also, for the Mut build - Is it me or does Hunger for Blood scream broken to you?
30 Energy
Instant
Enrages you, increasing damage done by 5%. Removes 1 Bleed effect and magic effect. If removed, they refund the energy cost. Stacks up to 3 times. Lasts 10seconds.
So casters will basically give us free energy so we can keep that up at all times? getting 15% extra damage constantly on a clothie wont happen... People cry about CoS, but with that they might just /wrist.
30 Energy
Instant
Enrages you, increasing damage done by 5%. Removes 1 Bleed effect and magic effect. If removed, they refund the energy cost. Stacks up to 3 times. Lasts 10seconds.
So casters will basically give us free energy so we can keep that up at all times? getting 15% extra damage constantly on a clothie wont happen... People cry about CoS, but with that they might just /wrist.
It's bleed effect AND magic now? O_o I already found it overpowered when it said only bleed... This way it pretty much makes you immune to magic ánd gives you 5-15% extra damage to anyone foolish enough to try throwing it at you.
Next they'll give us curse immunity too ^^
But seriously, even from a rogue pov I hope that's not going to happen... Just one example; what's a priest (Shadow or not) going to do to you except hoping for 3 DOT ticks when you get feared?
Either
the magic effect needs to go with the bleeding bit nerfed (guaranteed restealth when fighting rogues anyone?)
or it should always do 10% and have a 20 sec CD
or the skill shouldn't refund the energy cost.
Next they'll give us curse immunity too ^^
But seriously, even from a rogue pov I hope that's not going to happen... Just one example; what's a priest (Shadow or not) going to do to you except hoping for 3 DOT ticks when you get feared?
Either
the magic effect needs to go with the bleeding bit nerfed (guaranteed restealth when fighting rogues anyone?)
or it should always do 10% and have a 20 sec CD
or the skill shouldn't refund the energy cost.
Mozared wrote:
It's bleed effect AND magic now? O_o I already found it overpowered when it said only bleed... This way it pretty much makes you immune to magic ánd gives you 5-15% extra damage to anyone foolish enough to try throwing it at you.
Next they'll give us curse immunity too ^^
But seriously, even from a rogue pov I hope that's not going to happen... Just one example; what's a priest (Shadow or not) going to do to you except hoping for 3 DOT ticks when you get feared?
Either
the magic effect needs to go with the bleeding bit nerfed (guaranteed restealth when fighting rogues anyone?)
or it should always do 10% and have a 20 sec CD
or the skill shouldn't refund the energy cost.
Next they'll give us curse immunity too ^^
But seriously, even from a rogue pov I hope that's not going to happen... Just one example; what's a priest (Shadow or not) going to do to you except hoping for 3 DOT ticks when you get feared?
Either
the magic effect needs to go with the bleeding bit nerfed (guaranteed restealth when fighting rogues anyone?)
or it should always do 10% and have a 20 sec CD
or the skill shouldn't refund the energy cost.
It's always been both.
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 5:18pm by Theophany
Quote:
It's always been both.
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
Hmm, did think I might've overlooked myself. And I suppose I cannot be any more certain than you, but I really guess that it's not usable when feared or poly'd... like CoS... Even if it was, it would probably never make retail.
32 posts
Yeah, if it can be dispelled that is...
From what i've seen about the new abilities people are getting... the term "Enrage" usually means you deal more damage (Hunters Beastial Wrath, warriors new Bladestorm, druids new ability called enrage(?) ) not to mention you ignore stuns, polymorphs, snares. So either Blizz is just saying it enrages you or if they use the same mechanics as a typical enrage, we'd pretty much be like Jason walking around... where literally "you cannot be stopped unless killed" will be our new motto.
I think it's going to have to have an inherent cooldown or something. Like once every 8 seconds, so you have to time it into your rotations so you don't drop the stack. It would make Cut to the Chase a better talent that way since you wouldn't have to worry about throwing a SnD in there as much. But as Cut to the Chase stands, I'd rather pass on it for other things like Devious Poisons and use some spare points in some of those talents that are good for pve/pvp. As a raiding standpoint, you wouldn't need Imp. KS so that frees up points... but still - The assassination line is known for it's CP generation. Getting and keeping up a constant 5pt SnD in your rotations is not that hard. Plus with that ability in there for your ruptures to be 20% more effective, I doubt you'll see too many eviscerates or envenoms because eviscerate scales badly currently and envenom wastes your deadly poison stacks, which currently the abilities in assassination make them deal 40% more damage. Depending on the boss fight and how well you fast they stack, you can maybe throw an envenom in there every once in a while.
You could drop fleet footed and Imp. KS to put points in Imp. Poisons to greatly affect their stack rate so that it decreases the time it takes for your deadlies to stack, thus improving the usefulness of envenom. But who knows... as the alpha build stands, there are plenty of loop holes in that line, but it seems to be the way to go for daggers - both pvp and pve.
Your thoughts please Theo on this analysis.
From what i've seen about the new abilities people are getting... the term "Enrage" usually means you deal more damage (Hunters Beastial Wrath, warriors new Bladestorm, druids new ability called enrage(?) ) not to mention you ignore stuns, polymorphs, snares. So either Blizz is just saying it enrages you or if they use the same mechanics as a typical enrage, we'd pretty much be like Jason walking around... where literally "you cannot be stopped unless killed" will be our new motto.
I think it's going to have to have an inherent cooldown or something. Like once every 8 seconds, so you have to time it into your rotations so you don't drop the stack. It would make Cut to the Chase a better talent that way since you wouldn't have to worry about throwing a SnD in there as much. But as Cut to the Chase stands, I'd rather pass on it for other things like Devious Poisons and use some spare points in some of those talents that are good for pve/pvp. As a raiding standpoint, you wouldn't need Imp. KS so that frees up points... but still - The assassination line is known for it's CP generation. Getting and keeping up a constant 5pt SnD in your rotations is not that hard. Plus with that ability in there for your ruptures to be 20% more effective, I doubt you'll see too many eviscerates or envenoms because eviscerate scales badly currently and envenom wastes your deadly poison stacks, which currently the abilities in assassination make them deal 40% more damage. Depending on the boss fight and how well you fast they stack, you can maybe throw an envenom in there every once in a while.
You could drop fleet footed and Imp. KS to put points in Imp. Poisons to greatly affect their stack rate so that it decreases the time it takes for your deadlies to stack, thus improving the usefulness of envenom. But who knows... as the alpha build stands, there are plenty of loop holes in that line, but it seems to be the way to go for daggers - both pvp and pve.
Your thoughts please Theo on this analysis.
RyphtheSwift wrote:
Yeah, if it can be dispelled that is...
From what i've seen about the new abilities people are getting... the term "Enrage" usually means you deal more damage (Hunters Beastial Wrath, warriors new Bladestorm, druids new ability called enrage(?) ) not to mention you ignore stuns, polymorphs, snares. So either Blizz is just saying it enrages you or if they use the same mechanics as a typical enrage, we'd pretty much be like Jason walking around... where literally "you cannot be stopped unless killed" will be our new motto.
I think it's going to have to have an inherent cooldown or something. Like once every 8 seconds, so you have to time it into your rotations so you don't drop the stack. It would make Cut to the Chase a better talent that way since you wouldn't have to worry about throwing a SnD in there as much. But as Cut to the Chase stands, I'd rather pass on it for other things like Devious Poisons and use some spare points in some of those talents that are good for pve/pvp. As a raiding standpoint, you wouldn't need Imp. KS so that frees up points... but still - The assassination line is known for it's CP generation. Getting and keeping up a constant 5pt SnD in your rotations is not that hard. Plus with that ability in there for your ruptures to be 20% more effective, I doubt you'll see too many eviscerates or envenoms because eviscerate scales badly currently and envenom wastes your deadly poison stacks, which currently the abilities in assassination make them deal 40% more damage. Depending on the boss fight and how well you fast they stack, you can maybe throw an envenom in there every once in a while.
You could drop fleet footed and Imp. KS to put points in Imp. Poisons to greatly affect their stack rate so that it decreases the time it takes for your deadlies to stack, thus improving the usefulness of envenom. But who knows... as the alpha build stands, there are plenty of loop holes in that line, but it seems to be the way to go for daggers - both pvp and pve.
Your thoughts please Theo on this analysis.
From what i've seen about the new abilities people are getting... the term "Enrage" usually means you deal more damage (Hunters Beastial Wrath, warriors new Bladestorm, druids new ability called enrage(?) ) not to mention you ignore stuns, polymorphs, snares. So either Blizz is just saying it enrages you or if they use the same mechanics as a typical enrage, we'd pretty much be like Jason walking around... where literally "you cannot be stopped unless killed" will be our new motto.
I think it's going to have to have an inherent cooldown or something. Like once every 8 seconds, so you have to time it into your rotations so you don't drop the stack. It would make Cut to the Chase a better talent that way since you wouldn't have to worry about throwing a SnD in there as much. But as Cut to the Chase stands, I'd rather pass on it for other things like Devious Poisons and use some spare points in some of those talents that are good for pve/pvp. As a raiding standpoint, you wouldn't need Imp. KS so that frees up points... but still - The assassination line is known for it's CP generation. Getting and keeping up a constant 5pt SnD in your rotations is not that hard. Plus with that ability in there for your ruptures to be 20% more effective, I doubt you'll see too many eviscerates or envenoms because eviscerate scales badly currently and envenom wastes your deadly poison stacks, which currently the abilities in assassination make them deal 40% more damage. Depending on the boss fight and how well you fast they stack, you can maybe throw an envenom in there every once in a while.
You could drop fleet footed and Imp. KS to put points in Imp. Poisons to greatly affect their stack rate so that it decreases the time it takes for your deadlies to stack, thus improving the usefulness of envenom. But who knows... as the alpha build stands, there are plenty of loop holes in that line, but it seems to be the way to go for daggers - both pvp and pve.
Your thoughts please Theo on this analysis.
Well, good news is that Evis scaling is crazy in WotLK; people have gotten 6k Evis crits in the late 70s. The bad news is that there's no real crit bonus given to Evis outside of Imp Evis. It'd be great if you could always count on Evis critting, but you can't, making (IMO) Cut to the Chase a decent talent, but not vital to PvE.
Honestly with two 1.8 speed daggers, I don't see Imp Poisons as being needed, though with Vile being changed to 3 points and Fleet Footed being a PvP talent, I'd say that it could be viable. Right now there are too many points needed for us to really spec into Imp Poisons, and there's not enough benefit. 10% more procs will be welcome.
I'd also like to see a longer duration time on Deadly Poison, but I can see how that would be too much of a buff for combat with the buff to Imp Poisons.
It'll also be interesting to see whether 3 points in Vile or 4 points in Imp Poisons will yield larger damage bonuses at 80 for a combat build.
Quote:
It's always been both.
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
I think it'd be quite good for PvE too. 15% extra damage - that's like another SnD running. If you're Mut it's not like you'll be unable to complete cycles for using the energy, either.
I should go look on EJ.
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
It's always been both.
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
But yeah, that talent is getting scrutinized a lot. It seems incredibly powerful in PvP.
15% damage bonus, plus 9% from Imp KS on a CB Mut? I can hear the nerf cries even now.
Edit: though it'll be nice that we'll be taking some strain off our casters on our teams with that dispelling bonus. If you think about it, what would you rather have on a mut rogue, a 15% bonus damage effect, or 30 energy?
Yeah, we'll get spam-purged and spam-dispelled. It'll be nice just to shed the bleeds and magic effects, though. I wonder if it'll be usable in Poly, so you'd basically be immune?
I think it'd be quite good for PvE too. 15% extra damage - that's like another SnD running. If you're Mut it's not like you'll be unable to complete cycles for using the energy, either.
I should go look on EJ.
Yeah, without a doubt.
It should put Mut fairly close to combat for PvE, if not cause mut to pass combat.
Recent Visitors: 89
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (89)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Dagger Rogues in WotLK
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC