Titan's Grip... /aneurysm :DFollow

Didnt see this mentioned here...

http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/06/28/news-from-the-wwi-08-wow-dev-panel/

The news out of last weekends WWI quasi-confirmed that Titan's Grip is planned for Wrath. That is the talent that (if implemented) would allow Warriors to DW 2H weapons (at a reduced attack speed).

IF the talent does make it into the live game, I'm sure it will not be as entirely OP as it sounds (If you thought rage could be spikey now... wait til you're only able to autoswing once every 4-4.5 seconds). But, just the same... potentially DWing weapons with (for example) top end damage in the 500s and a combined 200 AP, 5% crit puts thoughts of dirty, dirty deeds in my head. Maybe I'd only be able to hit WW a few times a minute with this build... but oof... what kind of hell would those WW's bring? That, my friends, is a gank-bomb (if youre into that kind of thing... I'm not... but it'd sure feel like a good idea the first time I found myself getting harassed as I level an alt through Hillsbrad or STV).

I'm excited and cant wait to see how it works.


Edited, Jul 3rd 2008 3:02pm by soobooboo

My thoughts on titans grip in a fury build from an earlier thread.

all it really is is an excuse to put melee stats on 2H weapons with a sub-3.0 speed.

Is the site linked at the top of this an actual information site from Blizzard or is it just another rumour mill?
I only say this because when there was loads of speculation about when TBC was coming out, this exact same talent was rumoured to be featured, with exact the same name and ability, etc, so this could just be another anti-climax...

you forgot the dw miss rate

The comparison is between dual-wielding 2Hs and dual-wielding 1Hs. Using S4 weapons for the damage numbers, and calculating for the MH only (offhand damage is identical, proportionally).

1H: 108 DPS from the weapon, plus X DPS from AP.
2H: 140.3 DPS from the weapon, plus X / 1.2 DPS from AP. Why? Because while the AP is added normally, AP does not scale upwards or downwards with slows or haste. If it did, when Flurry activates you would lose a good portion of your AP bonus; you don't. Thunderclap also doesn't make you hit harder when you do swing for pretty much the same reason.

The question is, at what level of AP does the 1H start to pull ahead based on the better modifier? There's a 32.3 DPS difference, which works out in AP to 452.5 AP.

At any AP level above 452.5, Titan Grip causes you to deal less autoattack damage. This is somewhat compensate for with the stat bonuses and higher WW damage, but not to the point where you'd ever actually use the talent.

Of course, if they make the AP modifier not scale downwards like that it'll be well worth using. At this moment, though? Crap.

I don't know but my 2C goes here;

That's an AP difference of ~450, not a total of 450?

So, as RP wrote;



From what I see that 20% slower means it's 20% less dps on the weapons tooltip?

So a 140 dps 3.6 speed S4 2h, would read 4.32 speed and 140 dps or 4.32 speed and same damage range to make it read 112 dps?

If so, 112 dps is still more than 108 on the S4 1h's.

Ok, massive brain fade there ... I forgot a whole whack of conditions that I really shouldn't have..

Thanks all.

*edit*

Ok, after looking at the (overlooked) conditions and a few numbers, I have what might be a possible change to the talent. First let's get some numbers on the table:

Assuming 2000 ap in all situations (might as well use a number that is more probable)

White Damage, Main hand only.

1H : 108 + (2000 / 14) = 252 dps
2H : (140.3 + (2000 / 14) / 1.2 = 236.9 DPS ...

So yeah, I see what you say .. white damage actually goes down if you lengthen swing timer.

You mention one option, in that AP would be applied as if the weapon was not slowed (as it is above) ... that would resolve this, sure .. another option is to reduce the weapon damage by the same percentage.

White Damage, Main hand only. (for 2h calc .. 140.3 dps = 505.08 damage on a 3.6 swing timer)

1H : 108 + (2000 / 14) = 252 dps
2H : ((505.08 /1.2)/3.6) + (2000 / 14) = 260.9 DPS ...

Much closer numbers, and the added benefit of having the swing timers at a more respectable level for rage gen.

One problem ... doing this will then gimp one major benefit ... weapon damage based attacks :-\

Edited, Jul 5th 2008 11:10am by robertlofthouse

I don't like it just for the fact that fury seemede very fast paced so I don't want to swing around incredibly slow weapons. So I hope it's taken out, not for "OPness" but for personal taste in how I thought the tree was set up - see Flurry.

i'm thinking more along the lines of 2.7 and 2.8 2H's making an itemization comeback.

well, i take that back, apparently they're around now lol: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=29377;source=live

what about heroic leap? it says 50% weapon damage, but it says nothing about whether its MH only or MH+OH like WW and stormstrike are. if its both, even with a 45s CD, would that make up for it? or is the more consistent choice going to be abandoning fury past the 45 talent line and sticking the rest in arms for 2h spec and a weapon spec?

i suppose if there were a lot of aoe pulls to consider, something where a faster WW and aoe damage/stun effect would be useful then that could alter things too, but im inclined to say ditching TG for deeper arms talents will be better overall. perhaps a decrease in attack speed reduction is in order? 10% instead of 20%? or even none?

also, what about flurry? how does it play into this? itll put a TG warrior at ~5% faster attack rate while its up, compared to the 25% faster with dual 1h...would that be enough to compensate?

the problem with that lies in the rage cost moz. 15 rage isnt much considering its damage potential (more so if the damage is increased by AP) but its still not free.