Odd(?) elementalist mix-specFollow

Hello there,

Let me say in advance; I'm probably going to try it anyway and I'm not likely to change anything. I play my own game. Reason I'm posting this is because I'm interested if there's some positive feedback among all the comments for my 'weird' elementalist mage spec.


I've noticed most PvE mages go fire, while PvP mages go frost. I can understand that, as fire gives you a nice DPS while frost has a lot of survivability. But one question struck my mind; why not combine the pro's of both talents? Those PvP frost mages try to increase their frost damage with talents in the frost tree. But why enhance your frost damage when nearly everybody agrees flat out that fire is better for pure DPS? Isn't there a mix possible?

And so I've arrived here;
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZEthz0ccRZVhGhkfxobo

For the fire tree, pretty much all talents focus on increasing fire damage and crit chance. For the frost tree, I'm hectically avoiding any +frost damage talents; I'm going to be using fire spells for damage, frost is here for CC and CC only. In fact, at the moment (level 34) I'm using rank 1 frost bolt, frost nova and cone of cold just to save mana.

Some additional notes I couldn't turn into a readable story;
-1/2 flame throwing and 2/2 arctic reach? Yes; this increases the range of my fire spells to 38 yards and the range of my frost spells to 36. I like to keep that range somewhat equal, as I rarely find myself needing to cast firebolts without following them up by a frost spell.

-Even without having tried I realize this spec might have a tough time in the arenas. I didn't pick improved scorch because I can't be bothered spamming scorch on a player everytime I want to do fire damage. This is a decision I made before realize scorch will be my main spell of use in the arena. Nevertheless I've kept it like this because I find impact having a lot of use in all sorts of situations. One could always flip the spec around to this, allowing for some more viability in the arenas. I'd have to try (or have somebody try) to see how far that would be of use though.

-Yes, I realize this spec is not top notch for raiding. Yes, I realize this spec is not top notch for PvP. I like to view it as a healthy mix which allows for both (alright, maybe not raiding, but up to at least level 70 5-mans... maybe heroics) fairly well. For PvE, frost nova followed by a 60% crit chance (or more) pyroblast is generally quite effective at not leaving any remnants. For battlegrounds, throw in icy veins and you might get it off. If you do, your enemy will be turned into very small pieces really quickly. If you don't... generally you die, or run off.

-My spell rotations currently are;
PvE (Solo): Open with pyroblast, as soon as it launches throw a rank 1 (1 sec cast) frostbolt, then firebolt and fireblast, and if needed cone of cold or even AOE to finish the enemy off.
PvE (Solo, bosses/stronger mobs): Open with pyroblast, as soon as it launches throw a rank 1 frostbolt, firebolt+fireblast, rank 1 frost nova, [possibly icy veins], pyroblast, fireblast, then keep kiting using rank 1 frost spells and firebolt.
PvE (5-mans): Pyroblast as the tank is about to pull (somehow this works without aggroing), then mix firebolt, fireblast and perhaps an additional pyroblast; one could even pyroblast all different mobs before going into firebolt spam.
PvP (BG's): Find a somewhat hidden spot, select the healer (or player with most hp), start casting pyroblast, pray you get it launched, throw a rank 1 frostbolt, firebolt, fireblast and your target will be dead. When defending the flag carrier or such I generally throw around rank 1 frost spells to slow everybody down while ocassionaly firebolting/fireblasting enemies. If I get jumped by a rogue I either A) Blink and run away, B) Ice block and wait for allies, C) Blink, ice block and blink again or D) die.

I've also build a level 80 version of this spec;
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZEtuz0ccReoZVhGhkfxobo
It buffs up your fire capabilities to easy raid proportions while changing nothing in the frost tree. Alternatively there's
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZEthz0ccRZVhGhkfxobo
Which brings your survivability equal to full frost mages while still retaining the fire damage you had.


So... sorry for the long post, hopefully I've interested some of you in reading it trough. What do you think? Why is this spec so good? Why isn't it going to work? I realize I might get yelled at for posting a ridiculous spec that's not raid not arena viable, but I'm still curious to what other (long-time) mages think.

On a second small note; has this been done before? I haven't seen or heard about it anywhere.

I could try and flip a few talents around to make it raid viable, but the naked truth is that would make it plainly useless. For raids you do not need any CC at all (Yes, there's sheep and such, but slowing effects are of no use), so basically for a hybrid raid fire/frost spec you could remove all points in frost; entirely taking away the 'hybrid' part of the spec.

At 80 you could make this somewhat raid viable while still going deep frost by flipping around skills to reach this;
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZxtrzbcIotoxVhGhkrxobo
There's only 4 talent points in core talents I'd lack from this point... Then again, I would never raid with a hybrid spec; I'd just go full fire. It's less survivable than frost, but by picking up dragon's breath (and blast wave) you regain some survivability.

Frost raiding just seems useless. I realize it can be done, but buffing up frost damage with the knowledge that fire spells simply deal more damage is pointless to me. It's like trying to chiptune a Smart to be as fast as a Ferrari, while knowing that chiptuning a Ferrari would simply work a lot better.

So basically I agree with you... raiding with a fire/frost hybrid spec on a mage isn't necissarly impossible, just pointless. But like I said, this isn't a top notch raid spec.

And when you state that fire makes more dmg than frost... It's not that simple. Frost kicks gnomebutt in pvp because it's uber in BURST damage. Fire makes better overall cos of dots and such. For pvp purposes u are missing elemental with another FN for your use and with him u can make a shatterhell for ur enemy.

What about all those +dmg + crit talents you are missing? And in pvp you are always in too much hurry to cast pyro(unless instant) or fireball so frost also prevails there. I myself am currently running all BG's as fire raid spec and it's pain compared to my old frost. All those people cant be totally wrong =)

But then again it's all about fun and not all about optimising.

You have created a spec to have fun with while you level. Some frost for occasional PvP and some fire (I suspect because you like blowing things up). When you hit 70 you'll be able to go to BG's with this spec and probably be ok in regular 5 man content, you won't be able to raid or be competitive in arenas and you probably will not have the DPS output for heroics unless you (or other party members) are over geared. Ok this is a spec that is not optimized for anything other than your fun. Nothing wrong with that, its a game after all. In that spirit, I would suggest a couple of changes that I think you'll find add to your versatility and general enjoyment.

Despite your comments on the topic, missing out on that extra 3 yards of reach with the 2nd point in flame throwing is something of a gimp, because it applies to ALL your fire spells. While you have mated up your fireball to your frostbolt you've gimped the potential reach of your fireblast. The other points worth considering are the points you place in frost channeling. I doubt that you'll have mana problems mixing fire and frost as you plan and starting out with a pyro pretty much negates the threat benefit on your frost spells.

If I were build a spec like this I'd move the point out of improved blizzard too but you seem focused on the control benefit. So in that spirit I would pull the 3 points out of frost channeling, put one in flame throwing to max it, and dump the others to into improved blizzard. If you want to consider moving the points out of Imp. Bliz. you could put them into CoC or another damage booster.




Edited, Jul 6th 2008 2:33pm by MrFredII

In the next expansion set, your Elementalist dream will be realized with the Frostfire Bolt, which supposedly benefits from many Fire talents AND Frost talents at the same time.

(Frostfire Bolt does fire damage with a fire DoT and a frost chill effect, but if the enemy is more resistant to fire than it is to frost, it will do frost damage instead.)