So yesterday I get in a pug for daily heroic. The healer is a druid that is PvP speced (no tree of life form). He is one of those guys that knows everything about WoW, and is telling everyone in the group how to play their class. He is ripping on the affliction lock casue he wants to roll need on a helm with spell crit. He is bashing the hunter (who is a very good player from what I saw) cause of his trapping. Then his eyes turn to me.
Now here I am THINKING I have done my research. I have 14k HP, 29% dodge, 415 def and 24k armor in rawr form. I use heavy clefthoof set (Just started Kara, have T4 gloves already). I have earthwarden, gemmed stam, enchanted agi. I thought I was pretty setup to start heroics and Kara. Anywho, this aretard starts telling me my gear sucks and that I need more resilence (sp). He keeps yammering about how I am being crit hit. So I try to explain to him that I don't see how I am being crit hit with my 415 def. He then tells me that armor is useless and that I should be stacking resielence (sp). Now, I THINK I know how it works, and if crits are off the table, why stack resilience (sp)? Did I miss something?
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Bear tanking and Res....
Bear tanking and Res....Follow
Resilience is 99% a PvP stat. You're perfectly fine.
The only time I think res is useful for a Bear tank is to get uncrittable if you don't get 415 Def (I think I read somewhere it's easier to get uncrittable through res than through def) but if you're uncrittable already, res is useless to you in PvE.
13 posts
HI,
Resilience can help to reach crit immunity but since you are already crit immune with 415 of def and the usual spec. The only thing i can see that may make you a little bit squichy is your armor.
Armor for druid tank is mostly the only stat that we have to mitigate incoming damage.
It's sure that dodge help a lot, but more armor you will get more hit and crushing blow you will be able to take.
If you want some advice for upgrade you can find link us your armory
And don't worry to much your stats since good for kara and heroic, since your druid healer was mostly pvp gear and hot healing spell and tree of life form are usualy exellent for healing druid tank since we get smaller but constant damage the issu you get may come from there.
it's my 2 pennies
Have a good day
Loclear, 70 druid
(eredar)
Resilience can help to reach crit immunity but since you are already crit immune with 415 of def and the usual spec. The only thing i can see that may make you a little bit squichy is your armor.
Armor for druid tank is mostly the only stat that we have to mitigate incoming damage.
It's sure that dodge help a lot, but more armor you will get more hit and crushing blow you will be able to take.
If you want some advice for upgrade you can find link us your armory
And don't worry to much your stats since good for kara and heroic, since your druid healer was mostly pvp gear and hot healing spell and tree of life form are usualy exellent for healing druid tank since we get smaller but constant damage the issu you get may come from there.
it's my 2 pennies
Have a good day
Loclear, 70 druid
(eredar)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Forgotten+Coast&n=Shifftty
I have no idea how to link it, but you can copy and paste that I guess.....
I need a new ring (saving 60 badges for a new tanking one) and I am running mech till my eyes bleed.....
I have no idea how to link it, but you can copy and paste that I guess.....
I need a new ring (saving 60 badges for a new tanking one) and I am running mech till my eyes bleed.....
Scholar
23 posts
So taking this strictly by the numbers:
1. I think you have to be careful which heroics you try as you get your gear together. You druid healer, although an idiot, was most likely commenting on a couple high dmg runs the mobs were getting on you. Many things can contribute to that (slow cc, him being sleep at the wheel, crushing blows, charged blows in mech, etc...) but more than likely if the dude would have kept his hand out of the cheetos bag he could have adjusted his healing without much effort. I still to this day avoid Shattered Halls because I failed so miserably in there so many times. If heals are peeling things off you then you may want to stick to easier heroics.
2. Your healer was a tool. The affliction lock was rolling for off spec. I don't see the big deal. Admittedly it may not be the most cherry piece for his class but if it was going to be vendored/sharded anyway who cares? That screams to me that he is in the 14-17 demographic. Admittedly there are some exceptional members of this age group (reflexes like a cheetah I tell you) it has been my experience that this age group sometimes is short in the "Shuts Pie Hole when appropriate" characteristic. Engaging them only makes it worse. Only thing you can really do is remind them that while you are busy looking at your stats screen you will not be building aggro. Sorry bout your repair bill... Usually shuts them up eventually.
3. Resil. above the 2.6% barrier has limited value. This is confirmed through the great posters here and by countless chunks of theorycraft across the net. At 415 you were not being crit. People have said that once they have been crit by a boss in this place or that but it was never on a trash pull and certainly didn't happen multiple times in the same run. It is important to note that those people never posted a screen shot nor were there comments taken seriously by the druid community. I personally consider them to be like you uncle that swears he saw a UFO (Sure you did... Put your helmet back on and go back downstairs. I will warm up your apple sauce). Resil reduces dot damage which is neglible at best due to the crap ton of HP we have in bear form. Nope, you are gearing correctly. Exceptionally so if I may say.
The problem with tanking is since everyone sees tanks they think they know tanks and in reality they haven't the foggiest clue. My first toon was a druid. I have been playing him off and on for almost 3 years. I just started tanking TK/SSC. I know my big aggro rotations. I know when to pop my trinks so my dodge goes through the roof and my healers have time to keep me on my feet. I know when to brez somebody inbetween hits. I can't heal for squat and my toon has NEVER morphed into the killer koala. Never will. I don't understand it and don't want to. There are people out there that heal that also know a thing or two about tanking. Listen to them. For the others... /dance on the corpse of the @$$hats and find a new group. Good tanks are a commodity.
1. I think you have to be careful which heroics you try as you get your gear together. You druid healer, although an idiot, was most likely commenting on a couple high dmg runs the mobs were getting on you. Many things can contribute to that (slow cc, him being sleep at the wheel, crushing blows, charged blows in mech, etc...) but more than likely if the dude would have kept his hand out of the cheetos bag he could have adjusted his healing without much effort. I still to this day avoid Shattered Halls because I failed so miserably in there so many times. If heals are peeling things off you then you may want to stick to easier heroics.
2. Your healer was a tool. The affliction lock was rolling for off spec. I don't see the big deal. Admittedly it may not be the most cherry piece for his class but if it was going to be vendored/sharded anyway who cares? That screams to me that he is in the 14-17 demographic. Admittedly there are some exceptional members of this age group (reflexes like a cheetah I tell you) it has been my experience that this age group sometimes is short in the "Shuts Pie Hole when appropriate" characteristic. Engaging them only makes it worse. Only thing you can really do is remind them that while you are busy looking at your stats screen you will not be building aggro. Sorry bout your repair bill... Usually shuts them up eventually.
3. Resil. above the 2.6% barrier has limited value. This is confirmed through the great posters here and by countless chunks of theorycraft across the net. At 415 you were not being crit. People have said that once they have been crit by a boss in this place or that but it was never on a trash pull and certainly didn't happen multiple times in the same run. It is important to note that those people never posted a screen shot nor were there comments taken seriously by the druid community. I personally consider them to be like you uncle that swears he saw a UFO (Sure you did... Put your helmet back on and go back downstairs. I will warm up your apple sauce). Resil reduces dot damage which is neglible at best due to the crap ton of HP we have in bear form. Nope, you are gearing correctly. Exceptionally so if I may say.
The problem with tanking is since everyone sees tanks they think they know tanks and in reality they haven't the foggiest clue. My first toon was a druid. I have been playing him off and on for almost 3 years. I just started tanking TK/SSC. I know my big aggro rotations. I know when to pop my trinks so my dodge goes through the roof and my healers have time to keep me on my feet. I know when to brez somebody inbetween hits. I can't heal for squat and my toon has NEVER morphed into the killer koala. Never will. I don't understand it and don't want to. There are people out there that heal that also know a thing or two about tanking. Listen to them. For the others... /dance on the corpse of the @$$hats and find a new group. Good tanks are a commodity.
Yeah I kinda thought he was 14 when he said "Tree form is gay". I think that as a tank I am not gonna run with a healer that is NOT PvE specced. I mean certain classes can get away with it, who cares if a mage is frost specced, but I guess thats like asking a shadow priest to heal a 5 man....
yodale wrote:
I mean certain classes can get away with it, who cares if a mage is frost specced, but I guess thats like asking a shadow priest to heal a 5 man....
Depends on what their gear is like. I'm Balance, but because I've colledted heal gear as I went, I've got enough + heal gear for main healing heroics (and not just esay ones, things like H Magisters or Shattered Halls
I leveled my druid from 1-70 with the full intention of tanking everything I could get into. Unfortunately I ended up being just as good at healing as I did at tanking and so when our guild ran short on healers and was lucky enough to recruit a couple really good tanks(geared for 25 mans), I switched to tanking.
I feel your pain. Unless someone that I personally know has a tank, offers me advice or recommends something in a way I don't like, then I either smile and nod and let the mob kill them or I tell them to F*ck off and find another group, usually an easy thing as a tank.
You gear is just fine, I tanked all the way up to and including Prince in gear just like yours. You aren't getting crit, but what the ******* healing you probably saw was a crushing blow and didn't realize we can't become passively uncrushable like pallies and warriors. So he thought it was a crit and decided you were an idiot.
Not to sound mean, but if he was in full pvp gear, that tells me two things.
Either he loves arena/bg's and only runs heroics for **** and giggles or
Two, he is a ****** who couldn't get people to run with him because he didn't know his class/skillset and had to gear himself a different way just so people would let him into runs. ( also in pvp gear tree of life is damn near worthless because PVP gear lacks spirit )
Either way sounds like he didn't know what he was talking about and just as everyone else has said, you are fine with 415 def, or I think it's like 196 resil, or a mixture of both. Either way, as long as you have 2.6% or better for uncrittable, then you're good.
Also, one last thing, I do sometimes run heroics in my arena spec when I am asked to heal or feel like running a heroic without spending more money to switch back because I'm taking a different toon to Kara that week or whatever. But I always let the group know I'm in my arena spec, so they won't see tree of life, but that I am normally a PVE healer that just respeced for the week or two for arena healing.
And tree of life is not gay. 20% off spells and a free bonus to healing. Man, must be gay to get awesome stuff for 1 talent point.
I feel your pain. Unless someone that I personally know has a tank, offers me advice or recommends something in a way I don't like, then I either smile and nod and let the mob kill them or I tell them to F*ck off and find another group, usually an easy thing as a tank.
You gear is just fine, I tanked all the way up to and including Prince in gear just like yours. You aren't getting crit, but what the ******* healing you probably saw was a crushing blow and didn't realize we can't become passively uncrushable like pallies and warriors. So he thought it was a crit and decided you were an idiot.
Not to sound mean, but if he was in full pvp gear, that tells me two things.
Either he loves arena/bg's and only runs heroics for **** and giggles or
Two, he is a ****** who couldn't get people to run with him because he didn't know his class/skillset and had to gear himself a different way just so people would let him into runs. ( also in pvp gear tree of life is damn near worthless because PVP gear lacks spirit )
Either way sounds like he didn't know what he was talking about and just as everyone else has said, you are fine with 415 def, or I think it's like 196 resil, or a mixture of both. Either way, as long as you have 2.6% or better for uncrittable, then you're good.
Also, one last thing, I do sometimes run heroics in my arena spec when I am asked to heal or feel like running a heroic without spending more money to switch back because I'm taking a different toon to Kara that week or whatever. But I always let the group know I'm in my arena spec, so they won't see tree of life, but that I am normally a PVE healer that just respeced for the week or two for arena healing.
And tree of life is not gay. 20% off spells and a free bonus to healing. Man, must be gay to get awesome stuff for 1 talent point.
My defense is 396 and I've got my eye on a couple of pieces to boost it to 415 rather handily. In the meantime, I'm well above the necessary resilience to be uncrittable through resilience alone.
Crazy thing though...when I'm tanking, I get party lead by default for marking. When I have party lead and an ill mannered net kiddie starts winding up the rhetoric, they're removed from the group. Not even the most elite of elitists would go around to each member of a PUG and rip on them for something. That's just grade A social ineptitude at its most apparent. The only way I can manage to get through a group with people like that in it is to adjust the group so that people like that aren't in it. If that means having to scrap the run because a replacement can't be found, so be it. To me, I've accomplished more in the run by sending a clear message to a moron that his behavior isn't beyond reproach than I would have if I had cleared the dungeon in record time with no wipes and got all the lewtz on my wish list in the process.
Crazy thing though...when I'm tanking, I get party lead by default for marking. When I have party lead and an ill mannered net kiddie starts winding up the rhetoric, they're removed from the group. Not even the most elite of elitists would go around to each member of a PUG and rip on them for something. That's just grade A social ineptitude at its most apparent. The only way I can manage to get through a group with people like that in it is to adjust the group so that people like that aren't in it. If that means having to scrap the run because a replacement can't be found, so be it. To me, I've accomplished more in the run by sending a clear message to a moron that his behavior isn't beyond reproach than I would have if I had cleared the dungeon in record time with no wipes and got all the lewtz on my wish list in the process.
Not to sound like I agree with a jerk or anything, but to the entire thread: Bears can still be critted by ranged attacks and spells. This is because most bears take it for granted that they have 3% less chance to be the victim of a crit, and therefore only get enough defense (or resilience, or a combination of the two) to get -2.6% chance to be crit, to obtain the -5.6% minimum. This generally works great. Unfortunately, as you will realize if you read the talent Survival of the Fittest, this applies only to melee attacks. Ranged attacks and spells still have up to a 3% chance to crit you, which really sucks in some heroics where there are pulls with a single enemy that uses hard-hitting spells (Mech comes to mind).
That being said, it was entirely possible that he was just another jerk, imagined the crit, w/e, and that I am wrong and you are right. But when you get hit by a 4500 crit charged fist in addition to the 2k damage from the melee attack that comes along with it, healers tend to notice, even the bad ones. Hell, especially the bad ones, as that will usually end in a wipe and they will be looking for someone to blame.
That being said, it was entirely possible that he was just another jerk, imagined the crit, w/e, and that I am wrong and you are right. But when you get hit by a 4500 crit charged fist in addition to the 2k damage from the melee attack that comes along with it, healers tend to notice, even the bad ones. Hell, especially the bad ones, as that will usually end in a wipe and they will be looking for someone to blame.
I told him that as well, that the only way I was getting crit was by spells. This is what got me thinking that res is better than def, that it affects DOT and spells more. Just a thought...
Mob spells don't crit. And mob physical ranged attacks are extremely rare. (Lady Vashj and... ?)
Quote:
Mob spells don't crit. And mob physical ranged attacks are extremely rare. (Lady Vashj and... ?)
Exactly. The only place I can really think of that gives me a **** fit from spell damage mobs is botanica really and other than that if some mob is shooting at me with a damn bow, I'm probably about to feral charge him or I just don't care cause I have 16k hp and it's mitigated by 25k armor.
Either way, The best advice is the advice you get from a fellow tank. IF and I say IF the guy is nice about the advice, at least ask around to see if it's right, but when a d-bag like that starts criticizing you, /kick and tell your tank buddies about him so he can't find a PuG anymore.
Recent Visitors: 22
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (22)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Bear tanking and Res....
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC