That's pretty much it in a nutshell, hunters (especially pre-BC) are notable for leveling very easily without really ever learning the group dynamic of play, so every hunter joining a PuG was often the wildcard. Like many of the above posters have said, when hunters fail, they fail big. As soloable classes go, I believe that from launch to this day there has been no contender for an easier class to level up, not even close. This class takes off right around level 10 when the pet gets introduced and they don't even really have to spend a lot of time learning it. Outlands of course brought a little bit of a help to this matter by squishing the weak and the lazy but Hunter's are still an easy class for leveling purposes. On the other hand, in PuG's and Raids, they can be one of the most complex classes as players used to soloing integrate themselves into the group style of gameplay. Hunters, with their ease of pulling aggro, lack of (early) group utility, and only so-so cc, have brought in the less experienced players (both in game and RL) with poor social skills to coin the phrase "Huntard". The Hunter ninja types also added to the stigma, with Hunter's being able to utilize a wide variety of weapons and armor, a lot of needlees "needing" occurred and then more players got irate.
It got to the point (pre-BC) that it was so bad that I absolutely gave up playing the class because nobody would accept hunters in PuG's anymore. Post-BC, on a newer server, a lot of people who liked hunters seem to have resolved to correct the issue and L'd-2P. I'm grateful for this because I always loved the class and love group play as well. Now I'm back on hunters again and have taken it upon myself to help keep the rep going north. No other class I know of can calmly sit back and watch an entire "Oh Crap!!!" situation developing while still continuing to burn down enemies and bring things back under control. Tanks flat out have a lot of mobs to keep aggro on in some pulls, and if he doesn't notice a mob break off to pursue an overzealous dps he may not stop it in time to prevent it from having a few squishy snacks. That can be a hunter's time to shine, the pet, the hunter, and his friendly traps can contain a situation very quickly when timed right. Give the tank time to get in position and re-establish aggro. Mages are about the only other class capable of these emergency response procedures of its magnitude with a well-timed frost nova, and those don't last very long. These days I've had no issues getting invited into PuG's and I think it has a lot to do with those who manage to pull off these emergency saves (including myself on occasion). If your server still harbors the same prejudices as before it may just be that people are either too hard-headed or just haven't seen a real hunter in action.
Words of advice for those who have not yet become familiar with the group dynamic:
When the time comes to roll for gear, it is especially essential to be considerate of the other classes before rolling "Need". If it's ranged, you almost get it by default, otherwise, it pays off occasionally to take a hard look at the stat bonuses and consider who else may need it. Ask if you're not sure if the players are ok with you rolling. If, for instance, at level 41, you roll on a set of leather shoulders with good bonuses to agi and AP, your group's rogue or feral druid may get annoyed. Hopefully I'm preaching to the choir, but our class is infamous for these types of situations and you can read up quite a bit on it in the older forums.
And for heaven's sake, take the pet off of Aggressive!!
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Quote:
There is a huge game mechanic hole in your post. Can you find it?
I'll help: You criticize "the moron" for failing to "pull his pet off the flee mob and the pet gets close enough to another group to pull it towards us." But it doesn't work like that. The mob has a hate list. If it gets close enough to another mob it transfers it to the new mob. It doesn't matter at all if it is being actively chased or is just fleeing because it was taken down to low Health.
So the Hunter could be criticized for failing to kill the mob before it got close to another mob, but not for having the Pet following the runner. The runner was going to get you adds no matter what, and if "the moron" had pulled his Pet off of the runner all that would do is lower his damage and lower the chance he could kill the runner before it pulled adds. Frankly, in a group with three Hunters there should have been a Frost Trap and two Freezing Traps down at all times if you were fighting in an area with a known runner issue. Assigning one player the entire responsibility for runners is short sighted.
This is actually a classic example of Hunter hate and why it exists: Many players just don't know the game enough to understand why things happen. And, not understanding, they tend to want to lay blame on someone for the wipe, or the adds, or whatever. And as a character class with a remote portion of our character, the Pet, this tends to be laid on Hunters more often than on other classes.
You also don't know how this mechanic works, though. Glass houses, stones?
The social aggro range is much, much shorter than the proximity aggro range. To get social aggro a mob must usually be within 5-10 yards of another mob; in order to get proximity aggro, the range is usually more like 20-25 in 5-mans. If the pet follows a mob they will pull considerably quicker than they would if the pet was recalled, and you should be able to use the extra ~10 yards minimum leeway you have to finish off the mob more effectively than you would had it been you and the pet without the bonus distance.
If I'm on runner duty, I keep concussive ready to fire when the target gets down in health. It gimps my dps slightly (you have to lay off the steady's or get ready for the <ESC> to cancel it). Then it's concussive and dps the runner down, they rarely get to social aggro range, but even then they sometimes do.
I don't think it's overly fair to claim that it's always possible to stop a runner with the minor difference between social aggro range and your pets aggro range, nor would necessarily want to...
Pulling the pet is a waste of time in my book. If your pet is on the runner and they aggro another add, your pet is there to pick up the add since they aggro'd on your pet! Otherwise your pet would be at your side doing nothing when the odds are pretty good you'd still get the add because you dropped the pets dps out of the mix and they'd likely aggro on your healer due to the social effect... DOH!
You have better tools at hand to stop the runners than pulling the pet. Also be ready to tag any 'adds' your pet can't handle and pull to your trap. If you are on runner duty, you are also on back up CC duty. Don't forget about using concussive shot!
As a level 70 hunter, you should be able to handle a couple of adds in non-heroic instances and against non-elite mobs. In heroics or against elites, your pet will likely need more healing support than you can provide to tank them. As a rule of thumb, it's better to let your pet die, possibly giving the group a chance to kill off the mains and then pick up any adds. If they kill the pet, they usually come after you since you're the one hitting them and healing the pet. Then it's kite time (assuming you have something CC'd already). I, however, suck at kiting.
Hunters shine when the crap hits the fan and you are ready for it and deal with it. Most of the group thinks they are facing a wipe, and when the Hunter pulls everyone's bacon out of the fire, that's when folks say "Darn glad we had that Hunter along!". I can only lay claim to doing this a handful of times, it feels good when you pull it off though. The truely great Hunters do it regularly and people actively seek these Hunters to be in their groups.
I don't think it's overly fair to claim that it's always possible to stop a runner with the minor difference between social aggro range and your pets aggro range, nor would necessarily want to...
Pulling the pet is a waste of time in my book. If your pet is on the runner and they aggro another add, your pet is there to pick up the add since they aggro'd on your pet! Otherwise your pet would be at your side doing nothing when the odds are pretty good you'd still get the add because you dropped the pets dps out of the mix and they'd likely aggro on your healer due to the social effect... DOH!
You have better tools at hand to stop the runners than pulling the pet. Also be ready to tag any 'adds' your pet can't handle and pull to your trap. If you are on runner duty, you are also on back up CC duty. Don't forget about using concussive shot!
As a level 70 hunter, you should be able to handle a couple of adds in non-heroic instances and against non-elite mobs. In heroics or against elites, your pet will likely need more healing support than you can provide to tank them. As a rule of thumb, it's better to let your pet die, possibly giving the group a chance to kill off the mains and then pick up any adds. If they kill the pet, they usually come after you since you're the one hitting them and healing the pet. Then it's kite time (assuming you have something CC'd already). I, however, suck at kiting.
Hunters shine when the crap hits the fan and you are ready for it and deal with it. Most of the group thinks they are facing a wipe, and when the Hunter pulls everyone's bacon out of the fire, that's when folks say "Darn glad we had that Hunter along!". I can only lay claim to doing this a handful of times, it feels good when you pull it off though. The truely great Hunters do it regularly and people actively seek these Hunters to be in their groups.
sloshot wrote:
If I'm on runner duty, I keep concussive ready to fire when the target gets down in health. It gimps my dps slightly (you have to lay off the steady's or get ready for the <ESC> to cancel it). Then it's concussive and dps the runner down, they rarely get to social aggro range, but even then they sometimes do.
I don't think it's overly fair to claim that it's always possible to stop a runner with the minor difference between social aggro range and your pets aggro range, nor would necessarily want to...
I don't think it's overly fair to claim that it's always possible to stop a runner with the minor difference between social aggro range and your pets aggro range, nor would necessarily want to...
It's not always possible, but it's certainly usually possible.
Quote:
Pulling the pet is a waste of time in my book. If your pet is on the runner and they aggro another add, your pet is there to pick up the add since they aggro'd on your pet! Otherwise your pet would be at your side doing nothing when the odds are pretty good you'd still get the add because you dropped the pets dps out of the mix and they'd likely aggro on your healer due to the social effect... DOH!
Do you play in some magical mystic fairyland where adds ignore threat structure and stay on the pet, rather than going for the healer as soon as a single heal or HoT tick goes off?
Quote:
I'll help: You criticize "the moron" for failing to "pull his pet off the flee mob and the pet gets close enough to another group to pull it towards us." But it doesn't work like that. The mob has a hate list. If it gets close enough to another mob it transfers it to the new mob. It doesn't matter at all if it is being actively chased or is just fleeing because it was taken down to low Health.
So the Hunter could be criticized for failing to kill the mob before it got close to another mob, but not for having the Pet following the runner. The runner was going to get you adds no matter what, and if "the moron" had pulled his Pet off of the runner all that would do is lower his damage and lower the chance he could kill the runner before it pulled adds. Frankly, in a group with three Hunters there should have been a Frost Trap and two Freezing Traps down at all times if you were fighting in an area with a known runner issue. Assigning one player the entire responsibility for runners is short sighted.
This is actually a classic example of Hunter hate and why it exists: Many players just don't know the game enough to understand why things happen. And, not understanding, they tend to want to lay blame on someone for the wipe, or the adds, or whatever. And as a character class with a remote portion of our character, the Pet, this tends to be laid on Hunters more often than on other classes.
So the Hunter could be criticized for failing to kill the mob before it got close to another mob, but not for having the Pet following the runner. The runner was going to get you adds no matter what, and if "the moron" had pulled his Pet off of the runner all that would do is lower his damage and lower the chance he could kill the runner before it pulled adds. Frankly, in a group with three Hunters there should have been a Frost Trap and two Freezing Traps down at all times if you were fighting in an area with a known runner issue. Assigning one player the entire responsibility for runners is short sighted.
This is actually a classic example of Hunter hate and why it exists: Many players just don't know the game enough to understand why things happen. And, not understanding, they tend to want to lay blame on someone for the wipe, or the adds, or whatever. And as a character class with a remote portion of our character, the Pet, this tends to be laid on Hunters more often than on other classes.
The hunter was a lower level than the mobs he pulled (2 I think) and his pet was an even lower level. So yea, if he kept the pet on there and killed the mob in time it would've been peachy, but the mob wasn't the one to aggro the mobs, it was the pet. Hindsight (being 20/20) agrees that the lowest level player in the group shouldn't have been assigned to runners though. There were only 2 hunters in the group though, and I had already used my freezing trap which was still on CD.
There are still some hunters who shouldn't be in groups. And yea, these are bad players, and would suck no matter what class they play, the choose to play hunters.
A pet's aggro radius is set by the hunter's level, not the pet's level.
RPZip wrote:
It's not always possible, but it's certainly usually possible.
Yes, and usually you will kill the target before ANY aggro occurs if you are doing things right. Therefore, if you remove the those times and with the distances involved it might be what, 1 out of 5 where the social versus pet aggro distance difference comes in to play?
It's not worth the effort as by calling your pet back with a <CTRL><F2> would probably increase the number of times a runner gets loose (by dropping dps cycle) to accomplish aggro by about the same 1:5 amount or even more. Either way, it's not significant since you should be able to handle the additional aggro long enough for the group to move over after the mains are dealt with. I haven't had a group wipe due to runners (with the exception of the time our MT and OT got their attack orders mixed up and aggro'd the wrong groups...) for a long time... and certainly never from Morris since before I learned how to deal with adds.
RPZip wrote:
Do you play in some magical mystic fairyland where adds ignore threat structure and stay on the pet, rather than going for the healer as soon as a single heal or HoT tick goes off?
Nope, the same magical mystic fairyland you do. I've always had them go for my pet first if my pet is the source of the aggro, and if they go anyplace else, I make myself the hot target (never let them transfer to the healers/casters). If you're doing your job right, you have either pulled the new add at this stage to a trap or put your pet on them for a growl/intimidate. That will hold any new adds for a while. You could use misdirect or other options to keep aggro on your pet. Hunters have the tools.
Runner duty is its own little role and when a target is in the run threat zone, your primary role switches to that and you need to be ready to do any or all of those things to the target if they break. Keep all your CC options open from 60% health of target or lower.
RPZip wrote:
You also don't know how this mechanic works, though. Glass houses, stones?
The social aggro range is much, much shorter than the proximity aggro range.
Accurate, but pedantic. It's very rare in a crowded Instance such as BDR to have a runner fail to proximity pull adds. So I stand by my advice, it applies to the situation described just fine, and I am not throwing stones. But you are.
ItsaGaAs wrote:
A pet's aggro radius is set by the hunter's level, not the pet's level.
Yet another oft misunderstood game mechanic which tends to cause other players who are uninformed to place blame on Hunters without real cause.
Edited, Jul 11th 2008 7:46am by Kompera
Kompera wrote:
RPZip wrote:
You also don't know how this mechanic works, though. Glass houses, stones?
The social aggro range is much, much shorter than the proximity aggro range.
So I stand by my advice, it applies to the situation described just fine, and I am not throwing stones. But you are.
Yes, but I don't live in a glass house. I live in a bunker.
Quote:
Nope, the same magical mystic fairyland you do. I've always had them go for my pet first if my pet is the source of the aggro, and if they go anyplace else, I make myself the hot target (never let them transfer to the healers/casters). If you're doing your job right, you have either pulled the new add at this stage to a trap or put your pet on them for a growl/intimidate. That will hold any new adds for a while. You could use misdirect or other options to keep aggro on your pet. Hunters have the tools.
For reference; if a runner pulls a group of adds, the entire pack aggros. They generate one point of aggro on the pet, but are considered in combat with everyone that the pet was in combat with, which includes the rest of the party. As soon as the healer does anything, they will have more aggro on the new set of adds than the pet does. You can hit them individually and the tank can pick them up, but doing so is often... let's go with "iffy" on anything above an easy normal-mode instance.
If there's multiple mobs in the pack you're going to struggle to get AE aggro on them over the healer while not turning into a pink mist yourself. If there's only one mob then you probably can go kite it, or if it's a very easy instance, pet tank it... but the better solution in the first place is to have pulled the pet back and killed the mob in the first place instead of being an idiot.
Using default keybindings is probably a big reason why you'd have any trouble doing this in the first place, though. Seriously, CTRL-F2? And you didn't change it?
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Nothing even close to this has ever happened to me. In fact, I have never even been the victim of anti-hunterism (just pretend that's a word :P)
I would have to agree with some of the other posters and say that you should switch realms. I have never heard of this much hunter hating on any other realm.
Come to Earthen Ring where hunters are loved :D
I would have to agree with some of the other posters and say that you should switch realms. I have never heard of this much hunter hating on any other realm.
Come to Earthen Ring where hunters are loved :D
RPZip wrote:
I live in a bunker.
It's good to have dreams, so dream on.
26 posts
I hate to play vs. Hunt on PVP and I hate the Huntards (you all know what a huntard is). But a good hunter is huge advantage. The first several levels are hard mostly because its the hunters fault in 99.9% of the wipes. But after that... I've never seen a huntard over lvl60. Most of the guys there already know what need to do and most important know what MUST NOT EVER DO. I don't mind playing with slightly undergeard hunter or any other class. We all deserve to have the chance to find better gear.
/Of the topic
Cheers all. Working day will be soon over here :-D
/Of the topic
Cheers all. Working day will be soon over here :-D
RPZip wrote:
For reference; if a runner pulls a group of adds, the entire pack aggros. They generate one point of aggro on the pet, but are considered in combat with everyone that the pet was in combat with, which includes the rest of the party. As soon as the healer does anything, they will have more aggro on the new set of adds than the pet does. You can hit them individually and the tank can pick them up, but doing so is often... let's go with "iffy" on anything above an easy normal-mode instance.
Apparently you missed what I was saying. If you are on runner duty you need to be ready. Even if they are headed for a group of '3' you can still control them- even if one control is to let one of them beat on you for a while when you have the other 3 fully engaged. Since you let your CD's reset since 60% target health, you have all your tools available to handle the threats. Again, this doesn't really apply to many elite mob groups but it certainly applies to normal ones. Your pet is CENTRAL to controlling these kinds of adds, which they can't do from your side.
RPZip wrote:
but the better solution in the first place is to have pulled the pet back and killed the mob in the first place instead of being an idiot.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this advice, it is a bit old-school and it works for Hunters that can't do CC well, but I disagree on it's efficiency or place. If you can do the role of runner duty properly, then controlling 3 mobs is not all that hard, even in an aggro heavy environment. Your healer should be using their skills to keep their aggro down and you have traps, Misdirect, Intimidation, etc. etc.
RPZip wrote:
Using default keybindings is probably a big reason why you'd have any trouble doing this in the first place, though. Seriously, CTRL-F2? And you didn't change it?
Wow, because I use default keybindings I can't do my job? I've been using the defaults for pet control for years now. Multi-keystroke works well for me and guarantees that I don't accidentally send my pet someplace I don't want him. I can actually coordinate my thumb and middle finger, it may be an amazing skill to you but trust me, it's nothing special. I get more of a workout doing PvP than I ever do PvE.
Anyone else want popcorn while we wait for RP to reply?
I really don't want this to turn into an ego match, nor is it my intent to get RPZip upset.
We actually aren't really disagreeing over much. I do agree with him completely for a levelling hunter that isn't very experienced at CC. It's good old school advice and good advice at that. I did this very thing up to BC but it never really had any noticeable effect.
The whole difference is a tactical one and a low percentage 'risk' at that, at least in my experience. Overall I have no problem with the advice RPZip is giving. However, an effective alternative (if you are good with CC) is to let the pet go and keep them there away from the party. Use all your tools and write macros if need be.
If you are not comfortable with that then go the "pull the pet" way. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.
We actually aren't really disagreeing over much. I do agree with him completely for a levelling hunter that isn't very experienced at CC. It's good old school advice and good advice at that. I did this very thing up to BC but it never really had any noticeable effect.
The whole difference is a tactical one and a low percentage 'risk' at that, at least in my experience. Overall I have no problem with the advice RPZip is giving. However, an effective alternative (if you are good with CC) is to let the pet go and keep them there away from the party. Use all your tools and write macros if need be.
If you are not comfortable with that then go the "pull the pet" way. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.
WOW!!!
Thanks all of you for your responses to this topic. I have some good news for you all and it is moslty thanks to the advice posted in this thread.
I have stayed on the same server and I am still rolling with my lvl 70 dwarf Hunter. I am in a Guild called the Old Ducks and we are now changing slowly to a raiding guild. We are working on the lower level guildies round the 50 lvl to bring them up to 70 as soon as possible by running them through thier group quests and boosts through instances and such like and basically learning how we all operate as a team.
I have found it a huge learning curve as you can imgaine because I never got to go in group raids or instances as I was a hunter with a rep for no reason other than being a hunter!!! SO what have I learnt..
Firstly I will agree that the hunter is the quickest and easiest to level. No doubt about it. The hunter also is a character that can be played very very badly quiet easily. To play a hunter well and get noted for it is a challenge in my honest opinion. I recently got invited out of the blue to make up numbers in a Tempest Keep run. I was thankful that they had a good geared Tank a Priest, a Pala and a Mage. I made up the 5th man. It was made clear to me what was expected and that they had checked out my gear and that I was adequate, just, but would have to keep my eye on the ball and listen to the shouts. So I did, and here is a few things I found out about my character and the way it plays.
My pet can hold aggro like a ****. Jeez i didnt realise how good he was at it. When the tank did lose a mob due to it being aggro'd by the mage or pala I could send my pet, whilst slowing the loose mob with concusive shot and nailing it with a repeat of steady shot and normal shot. Not one loose mob made it to the priest in the entire run, the mage confessed to being pleased at a pet being used properly and the tank was worried that my DPS was a VERY close second on the list!! I placed ice traps in front of the priest for the occasional mob that got towards him but it wasnt neccesary, always I noted the loose mob, sent my pet on to it and dealt the longe range blows. That info I gleaned from a post on this thread and it works. I always let the group know when my trap CD was close to the end before we commenced and I always targeted the tanks main mob with hunters mark and dos santos proc'd for me at an astonishing rate the whole run. I even managed to keep on top of healing my pet with the priest. My pet died 3 times all the way through and each time was for the cause. I was able to stand steady at all times and only a handful of occasions was I called to hold my own on melee for a few hits until the pala who was awesome made it over and the mage nova'd the scum for me to get back and volley the scum into the nether!!
Can you tell I have never had so much fun on this gane before?!?!?! I found out so much and put into practice so much of what i have heard on here, so thankyou all.
I am by no means anywhere near a good hunter raider but im learning fast and I am learning from what you have all posted. I cant wait to go again. I was a bit gutted that I came away with no drops from TK but I passed on them all as they were just not for me, and that is the way it plays, and maybe they will ask me along again!!!
I will keep you updated as to how I progress with my guild chums. Thanks all.
Thanks all of you for your responses to this topic. I have some good news for you all and it is moslty thanks to the advice posted in this thread.
I have stayed on the same server and I am still rolling with my lvl 70 dwarf Hunter. I am in a Guild called the Old Ducks and we are now changing slowly to a raiding guild. We are working on the lower level guildies round the 50 lvl to bring them up to 70 as soon as possible by running them through thier group quests and boosts through instances and such like and basically learning how we all operate as a team.
I have found it a huge learning curve as you can imgaine because I never got to go in group raids or instances as I was a hunter with a rep for no reason other than being a hunter!!! SO what have I learnt..
Firstly I will agree that the hunter is the quickest and easiest to level. No doubt about it. The hunter also is a character that can be played very very badly quiet easily. To play a hunter well and get noted for it is a challenge in my honest opinion. I recently got invited out of the blue to make up numbers in a Tempest Keep run. I was thankful that they had a good geared Tank a Priest, a Pala and a Mage. I made up the 5th man. It was made clear to me what was expected and that they had checked out my gear and that I was adequate, just, but would have to keep my eye on the ball and listen to the shouts. So I did, and here is a few things I found out about my character and the way it plays.
My pet can hold aggro like a ****. Jeez i didnt realise how good he was at it. When the tank did lose a mob due to it being aggro'd by the mage or pala I could send my pet, whilst slowing the loose mob with concusive shot and nailing it with a repeat of steady shot and normal shot. Not one loose mob made it to the priest in the entire run, the mage confessed to being pleased at a pet being used properly and the tank was worried that my DPS was a VERY close second on the list!! I placed ice traps in front of the priest for the occasional mob that got towards him but it wasnt neccesary, always I noted the loose mob, sent my pet on to it and dealt the longe range blows. That info I gleaned from a post on this thread and it works. I always let the group know when my trap CD was close to the end before we commenced and I always targeted the tanks main mob with hunters mark and dos santos proc'd for me at an astonishing rate the whole run. I even managed to keep on top of healing my pet with the priest. My pet died 3 times all the way through and each time was for the cause. I was able to stand steady at all times and only a handful of occasions was I called to hold my own on melee for a few hits until the pala who was awesome made it over and the mage nova'd the scum for me to get back and volley the scum into the nether!!
Can you tell I have never had so much fun on this gane before?!?!?! I found out so much and put into practice so much of what i have heard on here, so thankyou all.
I am by no means anywhere near a good hunter raider but im learning fast and I am learning from what you have all posted. I cant wait to go again. I was a bit gutted that I came away with no drops from TK but I passed on them all as they were just not for me, and that is the way it plays, and maybe they will ask me along again!!!
I will keep you updated as to how I progress with my guild chums. Thanks all.
Thoromin,
Hunter is the class that get's bashed the most with insults. I don't blame people for calling hunters huntards, because in reality, there are alot of hunters that don't know what they're doing out there. This is mostly because hunters are the most popular class, so bigger pool of players = more bad players.
However, despite all the hate for the hunter class, I love playing it. I actually like people thinking that I'm a huntard because then I just get into a raid and top the charts.
If you are unable to get into any groups, it might be that your gear isn't there yet, and also the fact that your guild doesn't know what it's doing.
If you check out raiding guilds, hunters are a huge part of their makeup, often bringing at least 2 hunters.
As a hunter, you are often responsible for pulls with Misdirect, kiting, and ofcourse, straight up DPS. Our CC isn't the most reliable but it can get the job done in Kara pretty well. For 5 men and Heroics, you need to master on how to chain trap mobs forever, and sometimes even trap 2 at once.
Also in raids you should put your pet on Passive at all times.
In terms of DPS, I'd definitely say study on a good shot rotation. Hunters should be a contestant for the top spot on the chart, and definitely within top 5.
Good luck hunting,
-Og
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 3:15pm by Oglokum
Hunter is the class that get's bashed the most with insults. I don't blame people for calling hunters huntards, because in reality, there are alot of hunters that don't know what they're doing out there. This is mostly because hunters are the most popular class, so bigger pool of players = more bad players.
However, despite all the hate for the hunter class, I love playing it. I actually like people thinking that I'm a huntard because then I just get into a raid and top the charts.
If you are unable to get into any groups, it might be that your gear isn't there yet, and also the fact that your guild doesn't know what it's doing.
If you check out raiding guilds, hunters are a huge part of their makeup, often bringing at least 2 hunters.
As a hunter, you are often responsible for pulls with Misdirect, kiting, and ofcourse, straight up DPS. Our CC isn't the most reliable but it can get the job done in Kara pretty well. For 5 men and Heroics, you need to master on how to chain trap mobs forever, and sometimes even trap 2 at once.
Also in raids you should put your pet on Passive at all times.
In terms of DPS, I'd definitely say study on a good shot rotation. Hunters should be a contestant for the top spot on the chart, and definitely within top 5.
Good luck hunting,
-Og
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 3:15pm by Oglokum
When a hunter breaks another hunter's trap 3 times in less than 5 seconds (yes, the trapping hunter is damned good, it was kind of ironic that both a hunter that could retrap twice in five seconds and a hunter who would be able to break all three traps would be in the same group) yet still manages to be below a tank on dps, feelings like this arise. When a hunter starts dps on the target before it even reaches me, pulling aggro while standing on the trap he had put in front of the healer so said healer doesn't get one-shotted, then the sequential feigning, trap breaking because of feign, and one-shotting of the healer can make feelings like this arise.
No, I don't respond like this to every hunter, just like I don't think every protadin sucks because of that one that couldn't keep aggro on me when I was in tanking gear. But I am still dubious about that survival hunter who tries to trap by running up to the trap target and dropping one, hoping it hits the right one.
No, I don't respond like this to every hunter, just like I don't think every protadin sucks because of that one that couldn't keep aggro on me when I was in tanking gear. But I am still dubious about that survival hunter who tries to trap by running up to the trap target and dropping one, hoping it hits the right one.
Oglokum wrote:
Thoromin,
If you are unable to get into any groups, it might be that your gear isn't there yet, and also the fact that your guild doesn't know what it's doing.
Also in raids you should put your pet on Passive at all times.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 3:15pm by Oglokum
If you are unable to get into any groups, it might be that your gear isn't there yet, and also the fact that your guild doesn't know what it's doing.
Also in raids you should put your pet on Passive at all times.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 3:15pm by Oglokum
The Guild I am in was started by a close friend and is run by four of us, 1 guild master and 3 officers. We were originally a levelling guild with the mission just to enjoy the game and help others. Now we are working towards getting our lvl 50 and 60 players up to level 70 by working together on group quests and instances they need to complete to get the exp to level up. This is helping us understand how we work as individuals and as a team as well as preparing us for raids and such like. So yes, our guild probably doesnt really know what its doing with regards to the first proper raid we go on, but like all guilds we have to start somewhere. :))
My pet is on passive at all times, of that you can be certain when I am in an instance. My shot rotation with normal shot and steady shot comes out as just under a second a shot if my stop watch is to be believed lol.
Golly its fun to be a hunter and enjoy it for the first time in a long time. I even enjoy running around Quel'Danas now laughing at other classes getting nerfed by three myrmidons whilst I actually use my pet to go gather, (using eye of the beast or whats it called lol, sorry its early), 2 or 3 of them so I can get my 3 keys asap!!!! This hunter is starting to get a feel, I am upgrading or have upgraded all my gear to agil, stam and ap where applicable and the gems as well.
I am now at 365 LW and once I am at 375 its of to grind for mats to get my gear up as good as is humanly possible without the need for a full kit of PVP stuff and having done any raids of kara etc.
Check me out and tell me what you think although please remember -
THIS IS NOT THE FINISHED ARTICLE AND YES I HAVE A LEATHER HELM, IT WAS A MIS-CLICK I WILL HATE MYSELF FOR AFTER DOING A CHAIN OF QUESTS TO GET THE RIGHT HELM LOL, and also those of you who would knock the felsteel swords I have, they rock, they actually do well for a hunter in the abscence of a decent polearm or axe, and I cant stand the crystalforged waraxe lol. So yes please go peek and tell me any other items I may be interested in until I hit 375 LW and get to raid the right places for the right gear.
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aggramar&n=Th%C3%B3romin
Cheers all.
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 2:22am by Thoromin
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 2:23am by Thoromin
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 2:25am by Thoromin
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 2:33am by Thoromin
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 2:34am by Thoromin
There's really nothing wrong with your gear. Including the leather helm, it's not bad.
The thing that is wrong however are your enchants.
Weapon chains on your weapons, resistance on your cloak, stam on your legs, head, chest and boots, low agi on your gloves...
Those all need to be replaced by agi/AP enchants.
Just replacing all those enchants by the right ones will give you:
Sta -60
int +6
agi +68
Ap. +40
crt +10
hit +16
res -20
-5 resistances
You'll still have 9.2k hp left wich shouldnt prove to be a problem at all, and you'll gain over 100 AP and 2% crit as well as 1% +hit.
Bringing you a lot closer to the goal of ~1650 AP and 5% +hit that I set for Karazhan, and definately good enough for instances.
Right now, when people see your enchants there's an immediate sign of huntard in the weaponchains.
So however cruel it might sound: you got all that hunter hate on yourself, and I'm positive that getting all your enchants corrected will significantly reduce the amount of hate you face.
The thing that is wrong however are your enchants.
Weapon chains on your weapons, resistance on your cloak, stam on your legs, head, chest and boots, low agi on your gloves...
Those all need to be replaced by agi/AP enchants.
Just replacing all those enchants by the right ones will give you:
Sta -60
int +6
agi +68
Ap. +40
crt +10
hit +16
res -20
-5 resistances
You'll still have 9.2k hp left wich shouldnt prove to be a problem at all, and you'll gain over 100 AP and 2% crit as well as 1% +hit.
Bringing you a lot closer to the goal of ~1650 AP and 5% +hit that I set for Karazhan, and definately good enough for instances.
Right now, when people see your enchants there's an immediate sign of huntard in the weaponchains.
So however cruel it might sound: you got all that hunter hate on yourself, and I'm positive that getting all your enchants corrected will significantly reduce the amount of hate you face.
Quote:
There's really nothing wrong with your gear. Including the leather helm, it's not bad.
The thing that is wrong however are your enchants.
Weapon chains on your weapons, resistance on your cloak, stam on your legs, head, chest and boots, low agi on your gloves...
Those all need to be replaced by agi/AP enchants.
Just replacing all those enchants by the right ones will give you:
Sta -60
int +6
agi +68
Ap. +40
crt +10
hit +16
res -20
-5 resistances
You'll still have 9.2k hp left wich shouldnt prove to be a problem at all, and you'll gain over 100 AP and 2% crit as well as 1% +hit.
Bringing you a lot closer to the goal of ~1650 AP and 5% +hit that I set for Karazhan, and definately good enough for instances.
Right now, when people see your enchants there's an immediate sign of huntard in the weaponchains.
So however cruel it might sound: you got all that hunter hate on yourself, and I'm positive that getting all your enchants corrected will significantly reduce the amount of hate you face.
The thing that is wrong however are your enchants.
Weapon chains on your weapons, resistance on your cloak, stam on your legs, head, chest and boots, low agi on your gloves...
Those all need to be replaced by agi/AP enchants.
Just replacing all those enchants by the right ones will give you:
Sta -60
int +6
agi +68
Ap. +40
crt +10
hit +16
res -20
-5 resistances
You'll still have 9.2k hp left wich shouldnt prove to be a problem at all, and you'll gain over 100 AP and 2% crit as well as 1% +hit.
Bringing you a lot closer to the goal of ~1650 AP and 5% +hit that I set for Karazhan, and definately good enough for instances.
Right now, when people see your enchants there's an immediate sign of huntard in the weaponchains.
So however cruel it might sound: you got all that hunter hate on yourself, and I'm positive that getting all your enchants corrected will significantly reduce the amount of hate you face.
The man speaks the truth, if your enchants are completely off, it's almost like telling people that you're a huntard which I'm sure you aren't. It just takes time to learn.
You want:
Head - 34 AP and 16 Hit - CE Revered
Shoulders - 30 AP and 10 Crit once you hit Exalted with Aldor
Cloak - 12 Agility
Chest - 6 Stats
Hands - 15 Agility
Legs - 50 AP and 12 Crit, but I wouldn't put those on your current legs
Boots - 12 Agility
Weapons - 20 Agility on each or 30 Int on each depending how mana efficient you are.
-Og
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 11:29am by Oglokum
The man has a sticky here that lists all the enchants. OP should read and heed both stickies, sadly seems like most hunter haters have read more on hunters than huntards.
Thanks for the info, enchants has been one thing I have never been to sure off and not had much in the way of advice on it. The chain thing on my felsteel sword was simply a buy and try. Someone had said it rocked and stopped disarm almost 100% oooh the fibbers, this was a recent addition but not one I intend to keep, more a try out for the sheer hell of it.
I was SOOOO gutted I hit on the leather helm, I cant tell you how miffed I was, my wife knew all about it!!!!!
I understand now though that agil enchants on weapons is the way to go and I shall endeavour to change the other enchants I have as well.
Is Intel a major worry for a hunter? do you need large banks of Mana, I don't seem to run low all that often but then again I only really use steady shot costing 100 mana and the occasional concussive and serpent sting during a battle. Traps are negligible on mana usage anyway.
Its funny that people have used the word Huntard isn't it. I look at some level 40 hunters that occasionally ask for some help in a quest etc and I if I have time I always join and help and I take a look at their gear. One lad had managed to pick gear that looked more Shammy to me, (I am no expert at all on other classes it has to be said), and it was all intel and spirit with a little stam thrown in. I asked if he had been given any advice on gear and he said no and that he got laughed at allot, even just stood at a mailbox he would get called huntard!!! poor lad. So I told him what I have learnt so far on here and he has run of to spend his gold and do the instances to get some nice items and is on the whole a much happier player!!! A nice story for hunters that is. Stick together and we will rule this game!!!!
I also wanted to ask about talents. My talent build is one I have pulled from WoW armoury from a very very well geared pre BC player who is well known on our realm,(was I should say), and everybody wanted him in their raids\guilds\parties. He recently however left the game which was a great loss and we even had a final march to his resting place at IF into the kings hall for him, all stood in a row either side with our guns\bows\axes\swords drawn, quiet moving really and an indication of the love in the game, especially for the odd hunter!!!
I digress though and wanted to ask if people feel my talent build is good or not? opinions would be appreciated. What do you think is the best, and what is the most successful build for raiding.
Wow, sure got a lot of questions, but if you don't ask then you don't know. I would like to tell you all though that as a father of two, (the youngest is a recent addition just 3 months old :)) and a married man working full time it is hard to get the time to play some serious stuff but this game is a release from the humdrum of work and on the whole the greatest gaming experience I have had!!!
There you go.
Any thoughts on enchants for my gear and my talent tree let me know.
Thanks all
I had all the same questions and you will think of 100 more as soon as you log in tonight.
Lucky for you there is 2 stickies that are always at the top of this forum. They answer every question you ask. They outline gear, have the perfect spec, provide you with a nice macro, links to sites with more great info, etc.
You must read these stickies. They will help you. The enchants listed in Aethien's sticky are pretty much get this enchant for your shoulder's, ect. Gems too, in order of priority.
BM cookie cutter spec is there. The talents are very well understood and you should only have to decide on 2 or 3 pts in talents that really won't matter.
Now if you read the stickies and follow the advice you will be a good hunter almost immediately. You may have a specific question, many super smart hunters here will answer you.(I am not super smart hunter, I am good reader of stickies)
Good luck and keep having fun!
Lucky for you there is 2 stickies that are always at the top of this forum. They answer every question you ask. They outline gear, have the perfect spec, provide you with a nice macro, links to sites with more great info, etc.
You must read these stickies. They will help you. The enchants listed in Aethien's sticky are pretty much get this enchant for your shoulder's, ect. Gems too, in order of priority.
BM cookie cutter spec is there. The talents are very well understood and you should only have to decide on 2 or 3 pts in talents that really won't matter.
Now if you read the stickies and follow the advice you will be a good hunter almost immediately. You may have a specific question, many super smart hunters here will answer you.(I am not super smart hunter, I am good reader of stickies)
Good luck and keep having fun!
Oh i am sure to have fun!!!!
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