Hunter Haters putting me off raidsFollow

Hi all,
I am new to 'Alla' and would say a huge hi to you all.

My first topic could have been dealt with somewhere before but I couldnt find it.

I was wondering how many hunters come across the

"Oh no he invited a hunter to the group"

or the

"I said get someone who can do damage not a hunter"

or the even more classic

"whats a hunter doing in this group we need a mage for ranged not a noob with his pet"

kind of Players, because sadly enough, due to these idiots that inhabit the game I dont opt to ask to join raid groups or que on the LFG system for party's and raids because it is endless knock backs after endless knock backs. I cant actually get anyone else on my ignore list after filling it up with people who have kicked me from a group because a Mage has turned up or a couple of whiners have threatened to leave the group "if the hunter is allowed to stay". I even get abuse for having my pet out on show when waiting for the rest of the group to be picked, things like "Your pet better be on defend otherwise your out" or "If your pet interfers with the tank and we get nerfed your out", in fact anything to do with pet ends with your out!!!.

I am sick of it. It got so bad that I have made the effort and just begun changing armour and stats to be more PVE friendly in the hope that folks may take the time to look at my armour and stats and damage etc and think, "hey the guy is trying. He has obviously sought out advice and is learning to handle his character, pet, traps etc and getting the right kind of armour with the right kind of stats for a hunter who is predominantly BM".

COR BLIMEY!!! how wrong about that was I!!! instead I get even more abuse for being a fool who is trying to get it right. So I give up. I have never been in Kara, Magisters Terrace etc etc, I will never get access to the nice drops and the PVE weapons and all because people who goto these places think they are a cut above everyone else and that the new guy wanting to go who has tried hard to fit in and get his gear even 1% near to acceptable doesnt matter.

Clearly those morons forgot that they were once like me. I am tired of this discrimination on my realm and wanted to switch realms, but im assured its the same all over, is it true?

Yours fed up and wanting to jack it all in

Thóromin

Thank you for your words of support.

Although I would like to point out that it is not a closed rant with no questions. The first question was "if anyone came across" .... and then the one liners most hunters get, and the last question at the end after the explanation of what i have done and tried to do to fit in was about other realms, is it the same on those realms as on mine?

You answered both admirably though so thanks very much and happy hunting to you.

:))

Edited, Jul 2nd 2008 11:56am by Thoromin

Edited, Jul 16th 2008 4:42pm by Thoromin

Hunter, if speced/geared properly:

Is probably the best puller in the game. (Ever tried to pull a MOB from far away with your pet?)

Has excellent crowd control (chain trap/kite)

Has ranged weapon and a pet and makes a great bodyguard for the Healer.

Is very easy to play, very hard to play right.

maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but for kara and the little time I've spent in ZA, we use hunters for CC quite a bit. That, and pulling a mob offa healer often gives the tank more time to get to it, or, if you die before that, it gives the healer more time to heal themselves/drop aggro.

You might remind the group that hunters provide group buffs. Hunter's mark and ferocious inspiration both increase everyone's DPS in the party. This will shorten all fights and conserve everyone's mana.

On Whisperwind, there's an excess of hunters. So I've got to be better than most to get invited on PUGs. My protection warrior and holy priest get invitations out of the blue since they are so hard to find. Its supply and demand. I'll be spending more time on these other toons in the future.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2008 10:12am by ItsaGaAs

Just don't fight bad habits with logic.
If those PUGs you want to attend have a bad attitude towards hunters, don't go with them.
I have seen some bad talk about hunters pre BC (when I did some PUGs and had no gear and little experience). It is no sense to talk them out of it or praise the nice buffs and other benefits hunters give to the group.
Search for nice people instead. Find a nice guild or some static groups with which instances are fun. There are a lot of people out there who appreciate a hunter for what he is, a capable ranged DD with some CC capabilities no more and no less than that.

If you want to raid and see all those nice instances you have to gear up, gem&enchant right (all that shows that you are willing to do your part in a raid group). Apply to a raid group which sounds mature and is not to far progressed (with normal green and blue gear you'll never get into a T5 or T6 raid guild).
Raid and instance with them and you will see that there are a lot of nice people out there.

Just to give you the other side of the coin. I'm raiding in a T6+ raid (currently attempting felmyst in sunwell, so not that progressed, but still place 4 or 5 on my server).
It is long ago that I have heard bad talk about hunters in PUGs (and I still PUG occasionally). Nowadays the other people in the group don't see a noob hunter, they see a T6 geared hunter tearing opponents appart. In those groups a tank usually cannot hold hate against my dps and the normal non-heroic mob cannot really harm me anymore.
Thus I usually do not play very well, but nuke everything which is in there, splitting the mobs between me and the tank (with the tank taunting mobs off me, and me nuking the mobs which are currently with the tank). The fun thing is that noone is complaining. I mostly get positive feedback on those runs as it seems to impress people. So if you go in there with gear and play bad you are not a moron and people are impressed.
That does not show that you have to get the gear to impress people. It shows that PUGs generally are full of stupid people with a lot of prejudices. Get over it, find a nice guild and have fun at playing this game.

Yup, he does play the game and he's usually pretty on the mark. I'd hang around a bit before throwing the mud, just some advice there though.

What he's referring to is that until your gear is really WAY up there, hunters are relatively soft to even simple targets. I know I can't engage hardly any trash mobs in early Kara and not die. I'm dead in just a couple of shots. That's what you have tanks for, sucking up the damage.

If your CC breaks, the mob typically comes after you. You will likely be targeted and watching something else so the first hit from the mob is possibly a freebie. The second hit, you may get off a shot or a trap or something but it might not be fast enough, the second strike can kill you. If you are lucky or well geared, you might live for a third shot and maybe the tank will pick it up, or maybe you get another trap down, or FD works... etc. That's a lot of maybe's. Some of those things have other adverse effects: ie- FD sends the mob right to your healer(s) BAD, and many of them can be one-shotted. It ends up in a Raid wipe.

So, when a Hunter gets called on for CC in a Raid, a backup is usually designated in case the trap fails (which they do- as Aethien says). That's why I always ask the Raid to wait for my go ahead. I drop a trap, wait until CD is almost up then give the pull go. I pull my assigned target and if the trap fails, I drop another one. If that fails I yell for my backup which frequently is just a healer and I have to keep the mob busy until one of the tanks is free.

This is why Hunter CC, as Aethien says, is not reliable and not easily repeatable (longish cooldown). We tend to fall to 4th or 5th tier for CC. Tank, Offtank, Mage/Priest, then Rogue/Hunter. (Rogues have similar issues with SAP not working or not allowed.)

Well, we just discovered that Aethien does know a thing or two and does play the game.

Hunters by reputation are the worst class in the game not because we suck as a class but because retards who play the class are much more apparent, because it's easy to be a bad Hunter, not so easy to be a good one.

I had to fight for my raid spot, I got into a guild with the help of a friend but they wouldn't let me into the raid for Kara. I PM'd the guild leader and asked nicely, begged and demanded to be given a chance, just one. They had cleared the trash up to Prince and had died twice already, they said they were gonna give it one more chance but were going to trade the 2nd tank for a DPS spot. The leader put me in and said that I was either gonna to "put out or get out" for my raid spot. The guild hadn't taken Prince down before so were skeptical. Long story short, we downed Prince, I was #2 on the DPS list behind a full Kara/PvP epic geared Demo Lock and ended up being the primary DPS choice for every raid after that.

Moral of the story... don't give up, make someone give you a chance, acknowledge that people have issues with Hunters but endeavor to prove them wrong about YOU, otherwise you let all the close minded, elitist bastards win... which is another way of saying you're a wuss.

lol. In Kara you don't even need CC. When our guild decides to do kara, we just bring in our pally tank who tanks everything by himself easily. Even a war/druid can single tank kara without CC if the dps aren't retarded and actually look at omen.

But to the OP, hunter's are awesome for 2 things. There DPS capability is awesome because (with a decent tank) you basically don't have to worry about threat because of FD and can go all out almost all of the time. Just dps hard, FD, and by the time you catch up again FD should be off CD.

The second reason is misdirect. Awesome for almost all occasions. Extra threat for the tank and give threat to tank when the boss resets agro table.

Hunters can also give decent group/raid buffs. BM hunters supply ferocious inspiration which is a nice dps boost and a survival hunter gives expose weakness which is a HUGE physical dps boost.

Then to all of you who said hunters are easy to play, but hard to play right. What? What's so hard about playing a hunter well especially in PvE. In PvE, every class is very VERY easy to play at it's top performance. Each has the top dps spec and a top dps rotation (which are all basically spamming something). All you have to do as a hunter is use a simple rotation of either 3:2 or 1:1. Man your right it is hard to spam one macro.

Some hunters DO deserve it though. For example (story time!)...
Last night I was in BRD (Blackrock Depths, for those who haven't leveled in a long time) on a hunter I made on a new server (to play with a RL friend). Well, the group has 2 hunters, me and some moron. I'm doing fine, putting along as druid MT holds enough aggro for me to spam multishot and volley, and other hunter has flee duty. So long story short the moron doesn't pull his pet off the flee mob and the pet gets close enough to another group to pull it towards us. Then he's stupid enough not to FD when the healer and tank die.
So yea, some hunters ARE stupid and don't belong in groups.

Seriously, if it's that bad then transfer or reroll on another server. I haven't seen that much anti-hunter sentiment since pre-bc. D:

I just wonder where all that hate comes from.
Because honestly, I've never had that.
Maybe the occasional wrong idea about the hunter class but nowhere near what you say you experience.

There is a huge game mechanic hole in your post. Can you find it?

I'll help: You criticize "the moron" for failing to "pull his pet off the flee mob and the pet gets close enough to another group to pull it towards us." But it doesn't work like that. The mob has a hate list. If it gets close enough to another mob it transfers it to the new mob. It doesn't matter at all if it is being actively chased or is just fleeing because it was taken down to low Health.

So the Hunter could be criticized for failing to kill the mob before it got close to another mob, but not for having the Pet following the runner. The runner was going to get you adds no matter what, and if "the moron" had pulled his Pet off of the runner all that would do is lower his damage and lower the chance he could kill the runner before it pulled adds. Frankly, in a group with three Hunters there should have been a Frost Trap and two Freezing Traps down at all times if you were fighting in an area with a known runner issue. Assigning one player the entire responsibility for runners is short sighted.


This is actually a classic example of Hunter hate and why it exists: Many players just don't know the game enough to understand why things happen. And, not understanding, they tend to want to lay blame on someone for the wipe, or the adds, or whatever. And as a character class with a remote portion of our character, the Pet, this tends to be laid on Hunters more often than on other classes.


To the OP:

Aside from the good suggestion given earlier in this thread to get into a good Guild, you also need to build a reputation outside your Guild. When in groups, be the person who is always ready to go. Get to the meeting stone first, don't chill out running your quests and wait for two other members of your 5 man group to summon you. Always come repaired, without a PvP flag (hop a quick flight to drop it), with a quiver full of arrows, and with enough health and mana potions to last the run. Also bring bandages, and if it's not an easy 5-man Instance it's nice if you have mana oil and elixirs as well. Don't do stupid stuff like jump a flagged enemy 'just for kicks' or because 'you always jump a flag', this is selfish behavior because if you lose you've cost your entire group the time it takes for you to get back, plus any additional trouble if you are attacked again or if a member of your group becomes flagged trying to save your sorry ***. (None of this is directed at you directly, OP. I get the impression that none of the poor behavior I detailed describes you, but I'm including it for completeness.)

Run a good suite of add-ons, especially a threat meter, but several others can be considered 'must-haves' for Hunters.

Be upbeat, chat a bit, and if you are criticized be positive and not defensive when you reply. Don't jump on others in your turn, just keep a notepad handy and note the poor players for future reference.

Over time you'll put together a list of good players, and you will hopefully be being added to other's lists of good players. This can help a huge amount when it comes time to put together a pug, fill the last slot in a Guild, or know when you can safely ask your Guild mates to jump in to fill a pug which loses a member in mid-run.