After a few discussions with my 2v2 arena partner and my guildies (and the topic started by Gaespard and the response of Vinay at the end about skill) i started thinking: what are rogue skills. What makes a rogue crappy, average or superb in both PVE and PVP.
I can think of a few and still consider myself only a crappy to average rogue in PVE and craptacular in PVP arena. Still some people say i have potential (they’re mad I tell you!!! maddddd). Most of the PVP potential is wasted atm because i can't mouseturn yet and have only used a few binds. After getting a new UI (Halcyon's) i've decided to give up on keyboardturning again and keep at it until it works out (at last). For some reason I’ve tried adapting to strafing and mouseturning but it just didn’t work out. Getting a new UI really seems to help my mindset of getting into mouseturning and binding. It makes it a lot easier to let go of the old with a complete fresh start it seems. Now, I want to know how to improve my game as much as possible. Please add or comment on what you think are skills a rogue needs to be average and what makes them exceptional rogues in the different fields. World/BG PVP can be added if needed.
PVE:
I’d say a major part of it is speccing combat for raiding. Might also be Hemo spec if that’s a buff your raid could use.
Come repaired
Coming prepared with vanish powders, buff pots, health pots, thistle tea (does anybody actually use those in raids?), drums (if you’re a LW)
Stay under the threat of the tank
Know the boss tactics
Know how to sap, use stuns and OT if needed in a bad pull.
Know the best cycle’s for your combopoints.
Know the best gear you can get within your level(s)/progression possibilities and set that as goal (not so important at lower levels).
Know how to spreadsheet? Does anybody think that’s a rogue skill that’s needed or just a forum warrior/theorycrafting skill? HI Theo :P
Know how to install/use/adjust mods (for instance using Omen)? Is this considered a general WoW skill or do you think this is one of the rogue’s responsibilities as we’re damage dealers only.
Gem correctly
Knowing all your “o sh*t†buttons and when to use them properly. For instance I vanished through a shadownova that Prince casts in Kara. I did not know I could do that!
Arena:
Knowing all your “o sh*t†buttons and when to use them properly in PVP. I still working out how to do this myself, it’s mostly a lack of binds that prevents me from using them on time.
Knowing the best target to focus on in any opponent’s team. I so suuuuuuck at this :/ My target choices are really bad that’s why I let my partner yell out targets.
Know how to CC
Know how to or prevent LOS
Gem correctly
Use mods for arena (like Proximo)
Situational Awareness: I suck at this. Hope to change this with new camera settings with my new UI
As you can see I don’t have a lot of points to talk about under arena. Might explain why I suck so much :D
Feel free to comment or add anything. Maybe we can turn it into some sort of checklist for rogues in a FAQ sticky/wiki somewhere. So... Share your knowledge.
Edited, Jun 27th 2008 12:11pm by samperor
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Define rogue skillFollow
It's incredibly hard to sum up PvP knowledge, but here's my list:
Knowing comps and counter comps, including strengths, weaknesses, why to focus someone, what buffs need to be dispelled, what buffs are beneficial to a comp, etc. Knowing the rogue class in and out, not having to look at keybinds, not having to have a count-down for getting OOC, knowing what works against what classes as you go 1v1 against them in any kind of a situation (starting in stealth with all cooldowns, out of stealth with no cooldowns, or a mix of the two). Knowing how other classes deal with rogues. It's incredibly hard to beat rogues if we can think a step ahead of a warrior, lock, mage, etc. Most importantly, can work well with your arena partners and can find a community of good PvPers where you have respect. I don't have this system, so I'm stuck with sub-par partners carrying them to 1900ish.
This season I'm probably just going to charge gold for me to carry people to 1700 rating. Make a ton soloing the easy teams in those ratings.
This season I'm probably just going to charge gold for me to carry people to 1700 rating. Make a ton soloing the easy teams in those ratings.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
It's incredibly hard to sum up PvP knowledge, but here's my list:
Knowing the rogue class in and out, not having to look at keybinds, not having to have a count-down for getting OOC, knowing what works against what classes as you go 1v1 against them in any kind of a situation (starting in stealth with all cooldowns, out of stealth with no cooldowns, or a mix of the two).
This is why I suck at Arena.
32 posts
For PvP:
Knowing what each class can do to you in a fight is key here. I recommend spending a weekend doing PvP in BGs. You'll get plenty of practice with almost all kinds of specs of the classes. In arena, you primarily only fight the cookie cutter specs, so BGs to me are a fun way of getting all types of variety in fighting. People say dueling is a good way to practice, but I dont think it is to the true essence of how you're supposed to fight. Rogues in PvP rely on the element of surprise. Plus in BGs you'll get plenty of opportunity to CC and fight multiple people at once, which is something you must do in arena. Being smart with blinds, kiting, LOS back into stealth, locking down healers, etc etc. One of the most important things to me in PvP with all the classes i play is to realize the usefulness of you class. It seems to me a lot of players just want to burn people down, instead of using their stun/fear/wingclip/etc to take someone off their comrade. I know everyone here as been in the situation where if only that warlock would have feared the rogue off of you or the ret pally putting up BoP on you, you would have lived. PvP is more than just dpsing someone down, so bear that in mind.
[i]If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu[/i]
For PvE:
Lots things i can't even begin to mention here as it will take too long. PvE DPS is all about efficiency IMHO. Seeing as how we're melee, we have to be in the fight as much as possible to get optimum dps. Swords currently are better dps and they are easier to play IMHO. Positioning is less of an issue and it's steady DPS whereas daggers take more skill. My only complaint is that they need to be buffed in order to make up for the added difficulty/frustration. But I digress... Thus I will reference Sun Tzu again, knowing positioning and tactics on a boss fight is an incredible asset. Lots of times on first attempts on bosses I've held back because i wasn't sure about the pacing and different phases of a fight. But after doing it a few times and rereading strats, I pumped out way more DPS than my first few times. Knowledge is power as they say, pardon the cliche. If you dont know by now to always keep up SnD, stay behind the mob, timing your CDs and all that... I suggest you read up on some basic theory. All in all it goes back to knowing the situation and your enemy. Having all the gear in the world won't do any good if you dont know anything about the fight or yourself.
Knowing what each class can do to you in a fight is key here. I recommend spending a weekend doing PvP in BGs. You'll get plenty of practice with almost all kinds of specs of the classes. In arena, you primarily only fight the cookie cutter specs, so BGs to me are a fun way of getting all types of variety in fighting. People say dueling is a good way to practice, but I dont think it is to the true essence of how you're supposed to fight. Rogues in PvP rely on the element of surprise. Plus in BGs you'll get plenty of opportunity to CC and fight multiple people at once, which is something you must do in arena. Being smart with blinds, kiting, LOS back into stealth, locking down healers, etc etc. One of the most important things to me in PvP with all the classes i play is to realize the usefulness of you class. It seems to me a lot of players just want to burn people down, instead of using their stun/fear/wingclip/etc to take someone off their comrade. I know everyone here as been in the situation where if only that warlock would have feared the rogue off of you or the ret pally putting up BoP on you, you would have lived. PvP is more than just dpsing someone down, so bear that in mind.
[i]If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu[/i]
For PvE:
Lots things i can't even begin to mention here as it will take too long. PvE DPS is all about efficiency IMHO. Seeing as how we're melee, we have to be in the fight as much as possible to get optimum dps. Swords currently are better dps and they are easier to play IMHO. Positioning is less of an issue and it's steady DPS whereas daggers take more skill. My only complaint is that they need to be buffed in order to make up for the added difficulty/frustration. But I digress... Thus I will reference Sun Tzu again, knowing positioning and tactics on a boss fight is an incredible asset. Lots of times on first attempts on bosses I've held back because i wasn't sure about the pacing and different phases of a fight. But after doing it a few times and rereading strats, I pumped out way more DPS than my first few times. Knowledge is power as they say, pardon the cliche. If you dont know by now to always keep up SnD, stay behind the mob, timing your CDs and all that... I suggest you read up on some basic theory. All in all it goes back to knowing the situation and your enemy. Having all the gear in the world won't do any good if you dont know anything about the fight or yourself.
PVE skill = not letting snd drop off, and staying out of the fire.
RyphtheSwift wrote:
For PvP:
Knowing what each class can do to you in a fight is key here. I recommend spending a weekend doing PvP in BGs. You'll get plenty of practice with almost all kinds of specs of the classes. In arena, you primarily only fight the cookie cutter specs, so BGs to me are a fun way of getting all types of variety in fighting. People say dueling is a good way to practice, but I dont think it is to the true essence of how you're supposed to fight. Rogues in PvP rely on the element of surprise. Plus in BGs you'll get plenty of opportunity to CC and fight multiple people at once, which is something you must do in arena. Being smart with blinds, kiting, LOS back into stealth, locking down healers, etc etc. One of the most important things to me in PvP with all the classes i play is to realize the usefulness of you class. It seems to me a lot of players just want to burn people down, instead of using their stun/fear/wingclip/etc to take someone off their comrade. I know everyone here as been in the situation where if only that warlock would have feared the rogue off of you or the ret pally putting up BoP on you, you would have lived. PvP is more than just dpsing someone down, so bear that in mind.
Knowing what each class can do to you in a fight is key here. I recommend spending a weekend doing PvP in BGs. You'll get plenty of practice with almost all kinds of specs of the classes. In arena, you primarily only fight the cookie cutter specs, so BGs to me are a fun way of getting all types of variety in fighting. People say dueling is a good way to practice, but I dont think it is to the true essence of how you're supposed to fight. Rogues in PvP rely on the element of surprise. Plus in BGs you'll get plenty of opportunity to CC and fight multiple people at once, which is something you must do in arena. Being smart with blinds, kiting, LOS back into stealth, locking down healers, etc etc. One of the most important things to me in PvP with all the classes i play is to realize the usefulness of you class. It seems to me a lot of players just want to burn people down, instead of using their stun/fear/wingclip/etc to take someone off their comrade. I know everyone here as been in the situation where if only that warlock would have feared the rogue off of you or the ret pally putting up BoP on you, you would have lived. PvP is more than just dpsing someone down, so bear that in mind.
While that's some decent info, nothing replaces actual arena PvP. BGs are nowhere close to as competitive as arenas, nor are they as forgiving. There are far more terribles in BGs than there are in arena.
Practice comes from playing arena, not from doing BGs.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
While that's some decent info, nothing replaces actual arena PvP. BGs are nowhere close to as competitive as arenas, nor are they as forgiving. There are far more terribles in BGs than there are in arena.
Practice comes from playing arena, not from doing BGs.
Practice comes from playing arena, not from doing BGs.
BGs are to arenas as group instances are to raids.
32 posts
Quote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
While that's some decent info, nothing replaces actual arena PvP. BGs are nowhere close to as competitive as arenas, nor are they as forgiving. There are far more terribles in BGs than there are in arena.
Practice comes from playing arena, not from doing BGs
While that's some decent info, nothing replaces actual arena PvP. BGs are nowhere close to as competitive as arenas, nor are they as forgiving. There are far more terribles in BGs than there are in arena.
Practice comes from playing arena, not from doing BGs
I was going with the old philosophy - "You must learn to crawl before you can walk. Learn to walk before you can run" - when I said BGs are a good place to get practice in learning other classes and the ins-and-outs of your class/spec. I never intended for BGs to be a complete substitute for arenas.
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