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Just a quick question for opinions and advise. I just got my rogue to lvl 62 a little while ago and got the new ability Enevenom. My build is 41/12/0 right now. I mostly use eviscerate of course as a finishing combo but if you put points on improved poisons does eneveom become the better finishing combo then improved evis? Just wondering and looking for advise.
1 : you should solo use CS -> KS for minimum downtime. Less they hit you, more kills you can make in a short time.
2 : for dungeon/raid use SnD -> rupture -> eviscerate in that order of importance
3 : envenom never ever outdamages eviscerate, ever
2 : for dungeon/raid use SnD -> rupture -> eviscerate in that order of importance
3 : envenom never ever outdamages eviscerate, ever
samperor wrote:
1 : you should solo use CS -> KS for minimum downtime. Less they hit you, more kills you can make in a short time.
2 : for dungeon/raid use SnD -> rupture -> eviscerate in that order of importance
3 :envenom never ever outdamages eviscerate, ever
2 : for dungeon/raid use SnD -> rupture -> eviscerate in that order of importance
3 :
Although it is extremely situational. With a high amount of crit(read: 30%+ passive) and the 2pc t5 bonus, envenom WILL outdamage eviscerate. I never really remember getting 5k eviscerates...ever.
My envenom crits higher than my eviserate, but over the course of an instance, evis would win out. That's if I ever eviserated a 5pt on anything, ever, which I don't.
Envenom, on a per-use basis nearly always outdamages Eviscerate, and at the OP's level (62) is fine as a finisher while soloing. Taking points in Vile Poisons increases its damage; Improved Poisons only increases the chance your target will be hit by your poison, and decreases the likelihood of that poison being removed. Envenom is unmitigated by armor, unlike Eviscerate. Do not get into the habit of using it later on in a raid evironment (unless on trash about to die), as this will decrease your damage output relative to other finishers in your ********
One thing that was not mentioned regarding your build, 41/0/12 would be a better choice for a mutilate leveling build so you can grab Oppurtunity and buff your mutilate damage. At 70 you can respec 41/20/0 to grab DW spec, which is proven to be more DPS than 41/0/20.
Just thought I would throw that out there.
Just thought I would throw that out there.
I'm not, nor have I ever, been a mutilate rogue. However, as I understand it your damage is increased against poisoned targets. Doesn't that mean that using envenom would gimp your damage? (Providing of course that the damage from envenom is not enough to kill the mob.)
two different poisons what?
this rogue is lv 62.
heres the details on envenom. in solo situations, after your cs -> mutilate -> 7 seconds -> KS -> double mutilate, if the mob isnt dead (happens more at 65+) then you use envenom to finish it off.
in instances you want to only use it if your fighting trash mobs and they are near death and those CPs would have been wasted otherwise.
heres the details on envenom. in solo situations, after your cs -> mutilate -> 7 seconds -> KS -> double mutilate, if the mob isnt dead (happens more at 65+) then you use envenom to finish it off.
in instances you want to only use it if your fighting trash mobs and they are near death and those CPs would have been wasted otherwise.
you have better ways to spend your cb's (keeping SnD up all the time, stuns while soloing, and with daggers i rather rupture then use envenom/eviscerate)
but if you have to choose between those 2 (to finish a mob off), i'd go for the envenom - dagger+eviscerate is just not worth it..
but if you have to choose between those 2 (to finish a mob off), i'd go for the envenom - dagger+eviscerate is just not worth it..
i can say this much,
as a raiding rogue, one of the better setups ive found (dps spreadsheet) is to go DP on main hand and IP on off hand.
basically those DP ticks are huge, and when you use envenom you lose all your DP charges that you applied. it stops a consistent damage source. so really whatever damage you get from using envenom, you have to subtract the damage you lose by not having DP on, and it is somewhat considerable. now that doesnt mean envenom doesnt have its places. if your fighting trash its the best move to use to finish something off instead of wasting the CPs (if your SnD timer is up). in solo play as mutilate i used it at the end of my mob kill rotation (CS -> mut -> 7-8 seconds -> KS -> 2x Mut -> 2-3 seconds -> envenom) if things werent dead yet and it was pretty awesome on damage.
in pvp i can see it being useful on plate wearers as it goes through armor. i think the strength of envenom shines when you put cold blood up with it. its a burst that people dont often expect from rogues and can supplement your mut damage. you can also use it if you want to take DP off an enemy so that you can blind them immediately afterwards.
in raiding you generally dont want to envenom.
as a raiding rogue, one of the better setups ive found (dps spreadsheet) is to go DP on main hand and IP on off hand.
basically those DP ticks are huge, and when you use envenom you lose all your DP charges that you applied. it stops a consistent damage source. so really whatever damage you get from using envenom, you have to subtract the damage you lose by not having DP on, and it is somewhat considerable. now that doesnt mean envenom doesnt have its places. if your fighting trash its the best move to use to finish something off instead of wasting the CPs (if your SnD timer is up). in solo play as mutilate i used it at the end of my mob kill rotation (CS -> mut -> 7-8 seconds -> KS -> 2x Mut -> 2-3 seconds -> envenom) if things werent dead yet and it was pretty awesome on damage.
in pvp i can see it being useful on plate wearers as it goes through armor. i think the strength of envenom shines when you put cold blood up with it. its a burst that people dont often expect from rogues and can supplement your mut damage. you can also use it if you want to take DP off an enemy so that you can blind them immediately afterwards.
in raiding you generally dont want to envenom.
Call me a noob, but about a year after TBC I still haven't worked out much use for Envenom.
-It's the same energy cost as eviscerate
-Eviscerate nearly always deals more damage
-Envenom actually REMOVES my DOT poisons, gimping my DOT damage.
-Both take away combo points
So far I've managed to think up 2 possible uses for envenom.
1) High end raids where bosses have a crapload of armor; since envenom deals nature damage I figure it's damage isn't migated by armor and thus might be effective on a few raid bosses (That only counts for muti/subt rogues though, combat ones will be using S&D).
2) PvP versus other rogues. With DOT poison there's no need to keep a rupture on him. You cannot gouge or blind him, unless... exactly, you envenom first to get rid of your own DOT poisons.
Then again, I nearly always go for rupture against rogues and nearly never have the time to switch to DOT poison in PvP. As a matter of fact I have never used this technique or seen it in play. But hey, it's a possible use.
Like Enthalpy said, it might be of some use versus warriors if you happen to have DOT poison up. On the other hand, I've got improved exposed armor in my talent build... If I want a sudden burst (rather than rupture) on a warrior I'll go for a 5pt expose followed by a 5pt eviscerate.
-It's the same energy cost as eviscerate
-Eviscerate nearly always deals more damage
-Envenom actually REMOVES my DOT poisons, gimping my DOT damage.
-Both take away combo points
So far I've managed to think up 2 possible uses for envenom.
1) High end raids where bosses have a crapload of armor; since envenom deals nature damage I figure it's damage isn't migated by armor and thus might be effective on a few raid bosses (That only counts for muti/subt rogues though, combat ones will be using S&D).
2) PvP versus other rogues. With DOT poison there's no need to keep a rupture on him. You cannot gouge or blind him, unless... exactly, you envenom first to get rid of your own DOT poisons.
Then again, I nearly always go for rupture against rogues and nearly never have the time to switch to DOT poison in PvP. As a matter of fact I have never used this technique or seen it in play. But hey, it's a possible use.
Like Enthalpy said, it might be of some use versus warriors if you happen to have DOT poison up. On the other hand, I've got improved exposed armor in my talent build... If I want a sudden burst (rather than rupture) on a warrior I'll go for a 5pt expose followed by a 5pt eviscerate.
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