Hi everyone,
Lately, in Karazhan and in heroics, I notice I'm doing less DPS than I ought to.
Here is the link to my character with her instance/raid gear on. The Spell Power enchant on the dagger and Spell Hit Rating on the gloves aren't showing for some reason, but I got them last night.
What I usually do is start with Unstable Affliction, then Corruption, Curse of Agony, and Siphon Life, after that shadow bolts until a DoT runs out and I redo the whole rotation.
More often than not I activate both trinkets I have on if the cool down period is over. I used to have Vengeance of the Illidari instead of Pendant of the Violet Eye and I'd use them one after the other, always having at least 1 available (short cool down and can't use both at the same time).
My talents are kinda weird, but the points in demonology are too useful to my party to abandon, or am I deluding myself?
Please, if you have any suggestion (except get better gear, that's also my goal, but it's not something I can bring to the table tonight), don't hesitate to tell me, my ears are open.
Should I be doing the same thing on trash and bosses?
Thanks for your input in advance.
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Affliction Warlock doing sub-par, help me improve.Follow
Can't see your profile at the moment.
Disregarding gear and talents for now, I would make a small change to your cast rotation.
For Bosses- Use your best trinket, then amplify curse and CoD. Then chuck on all your other DoTs (I find Ua->Corr->Immolate->Siphon works well for me). Keep shadowbolting until DoT runs out, reapply and keep bolting. When Doom runs out, make a quick calculation whether the boss would die in the next minute or not. If he would probably survive, use CoD. If not, CoA or CoS. The reason is that the GCD's that would otherwise be used to re-apply CoA can be used for Shadowbolts instead.
For Trash - Depending on how long they live, different rotation ought to be used.
10 seconds or thereabouts : Just throw on Corr and CoS and Shadowbolt. If the other mobs in the pull have similar life spans, throw Corr on em before begining to Shadowbolt (More dps and more chance for NightFall) 15+ seconds : Throw on CoA->Ua->Corr then shadowbolt. Throw a CoA and Corr on any other mobs in the group. 25 seconds and over: Throw Siphon Life into the mix, aswell an Immolate (maybe).
These are just some basic rotations that I find work for me. Depending on the time a mobs lives, how many mobs per pull and the skill of the tank, you'll be using slightly different rotations. I'm also not 100% sure if Immolate is better dps than a shadowbolt. I think it is, but will be testing.
Another little thing you can do to improve dps is not to wait for the tank to break CC and start chucking on DoTs (only if the kill order is clear). Throwing CoS on all short-living mobs under CC can also help slightly, if done during an otherwise unoccupied period.
Have fun and good luck!
Edited, Jun 25th 2008 10:02am by germa
Disregarding gear and talents for now, I would make a small change to your cast rotation.
For Bosses- Use your best trinket, then amplify curse and CoD. Then chuck on all your other DoTs (I find Ua->Corr->Immolate->Siphon works well for me). Keep shadowbolting until DoT runs out, reapply and keep bolting. When Doom runs out, make a quick calculation whether the boss would die in the next minute or not. If he would probably survive, use CoD. If not, CoA or CoS. The reason is that the GCD's that would otherwise be used to re-apply CoA can be used for Shadowbolts instead.
For Trash - Depending on how long they live, different rotation ought to be used.
These are just some basic rotations that I find work for me. Depending on the time a mobs lives, how many mobs per pull and the skill of the tank, you'll be using slightly different rotations. I'm also not 100% sure if Immolate is better dps than a shadowbolt. I think it is, but will be testing.
Another little thing you can do to improve dps is not to wait for the tank to break CC and start chucking on DoTs (only if the kill order is clear). Throwing CoS on all short-living mobs under CC can also help slightly, if done during an otherwise unoccupied period.
Have fun and good luck!
Edited, Jun 25th 2008 10:02am by germa
4 posts
CoS or CoE over all for all as a starter... unless you have decent enough output with CoD :)
also, when in 10/+ instances try to negotiate spell rotation with other locks if any are present [CoS/CoE] :)
i found SL mostly useless unless i intend to life drain as well, otherwise just SB away.
4 posts
btw, just saw your armory... health and +int enchants are useless m8... you could get better. +all stats and +spl dmg for instance...
also, check out rep rewards for trinkets and, well, continue nuking kara/gruul/mag for some items [btw, VW kill in TK might be easier then mag :P]
or, look into some pvp gear honor vendored as it will improve your spell damage and overall stats :)
DDon't wait until one runs out the refresh them all. Refresh any DoT as soon as it wears off, not before, not after, as soon as. As Affliction it is imperative that every DoT that can be up, is, all the time. Unless it won't have time to run it's full duration. There really is no rotation for Affliction, just refresh DoTs when needed and SB/Life Tap in between. Every second any one of your DoTs isn't ticking is DPS lost.
Can't see your armory to make any comments on your build or gear.
Can't see your armory to make any comments on your build or gear.
Well, I've been raiding SSC lately on my warlock, who is also affliction right now. The Armory is busted once again, but here's my rotations for Kara and Heroics:
Bosses: Doom -> Immolate -> SL -> UA -> Corruption -> Shadow Bolts (swap Doom for a utility curse in 25-mans)
Short lived elite trash: Corruption -> Shadow Bolt spam -> Drain Soul
Long lived elite trash: CoS -> Immolate -> SL -> UA -> Corruption -> Shadow Bolts (don't refresh dots)
Non-elite trash: Drain Soul
Why I use the rotations I do:
Immolate->SL will utilize your GCD in the same way that UA->Corruption does, but Immolate is less likely to drop off at the same time that UA/Corruption do with this rotation. Eventually, it will drop off at the same time though. Also, of the course of a several minute boss fight, Doom will be higher personal dps than Agony will, because you only need to refresh it once a minute as opposed to 2-3 times a minute, and that leaves you enough time for another shadow bolt or two - and CoD + shadow bolt does more damage than CoA + shadow bolt in the same amount of time.
Also, because of the damage per cast time/damage per mana, Siphon Life is definitely worth casting on bosses. Remember that the overhealing it will give you does not cause threat, but it still does damage. If you're having problems with debuff slots (which shouldn't be the case in 10-mans), drop Immolate before you drop SL. Immolate does have a higher damage per mana ratio than Shadow Bolt, if I remember correctly, but it also is the first debuff you should drop, because you're more than likely to have more shadow damage than fire.
When it comes to refreshing DoTs, I would suggest getting Quartz, DoTimer or another mod that will help you time your DoTs. In my opinion, Quartz is the best for this, because it will also show you your cast times with latency, so you can start casting sooner, plus it has a debuff timer built into it for both your regular target and your focus target (useful for seducing in heroics or banishing whenever, including in Kara). For UA and Immolate, start casting them about 1-1.3 seconds before they fall off - not AS they fall off.
Finally, are you hit capped at 202 spell hit? There are no talents in the Destruction or Demonology tree to help you achieve your spell hit goal, so you will want to be hit capped regardless of your spec, because Soulshatter and Shadow Bolt don't have that +hit bonus like Affliction spells do from Suppression.
Regarding any points in Demonology: Improved Shadow Bolt and Destructive Reach are MUST HAVES for raiding as an affliction warlock. Improved Imp is a negligible talent - 260 hit points means very little. Here is the actual spec I use for raiding, at 203 spell hit (1 over cap) and 1100 unbuffed shadow damage. I get to utilize my points in Malediction for 25-mans, but it's not so important in 10-mans, so you can opt for Improved Howl of Terror or Nightfall, and stick one other point anywhere you choose (maybe improved healthstone?).
A couple of trinkets you might consider in lieu of what you have, though, are the Scryer's Bloodgem (especially if you're not hit capped) and the Icon of the Silver Crescent. If you are hit capped without the Bloodgem, then try to get either Quagmirran's Eye from Heroic Slave Pens or Darkmoon Card: Crusade (as an affliction lock, the buff will almost constantly be up on the DMC:C).
Note: If you are a tailor, get the Frozen Shadoweave set, as well as the Spellstrike set - this will ultimately help you in your quest for spell hit, and they last a long time. Even if you're NOT a tailor, the Spellstrike set is invaluable because of the spell hit (you just don't get the set bonus).
Edit - Armory started working for me.
Suggestions on enchants:
Gloves: Spell Strike (+15 spell hit)
Legs: Mystic/Runic Spellthread
Boots: Stamina or Boar's Speed
Head: The revered head enchant from the Sha'tar
Shoulders: Revered/Exalted with Aldor/Scryet (depending on your faction)
Chest: +6 stats
Wrists: +4 stats, +healing or +spell damage. Yes, +healing is worth it; you get a minimal drop in spell damage from the spell damage enchant, but it's cheaper.
Cloak: SUBTLETY. There is only one PvE enchant for cloaks, and Subtlety is it.
Gear suggestions:
Replace your T4 helm with the Spellstrike Hood, and get it enchanted; it doesn't have slots, so no gems, but Spellstrike > T4 helm.
Back: Sethekk Oracle Cloak should be fine (I think it's from Sethekk Halls? Not sure), because of the +hit. Otherwise go for the cape from Prince in Kara, or get the cloak from Delrissa in Magister's Terrace.
Bracers: Silk Cuffs from PvP.
Main Hand: Get something with spell hit. S2 dagger (since S4 just started), Continuum Blade (Keepers of Time revered), Greatsword of Horrid Dreams (Shadow Labyrinth normal, from Murmur).
Offhand: Pick up the spell hit offhand from Black Morass, or Orb of the Soul Eater from badges.
Wand: Shade's wand, period. The Black Stalk from Heroic Underbog works just as well for trash/post hit cap, as well.
Gloves: T4 gloves are useless, except for 2pc bonus later on, which should go with the shoulders, not the helm. Get the Gloves of Arcane Acuity from Kael'thas in Magister's, The Handwraps of Flowing Thought from Attumen, or the Gloves of Oblivion (I forget whether it's Shattered Halls or Shadow Labyrinth where they drop).
Belt: Get the Sash of Serpentra from Steamvaults, or get a Belt of Blasting crafted for you.
Pants: The Oblivion pants are fine, but you want to upgrade these to Spellstrike also, especially as you will get set bonus from being a tailor.
Rings: Cenarion Expedition Exalted (Ashyen's Gift) and Fused Nethergon Band (badges).
Trinkets: Icon of the Silver Crescent (badges), Scryer's Bloodgem if you are Scryer (revered), Quagmirran's Eye (Heroic Slave Pens), Darkmoon Card: Crusade.
How to gem:
For your red and yellow slots, put Veiled Noble Topazes in everything. For blue slots, use Glowing Nightseyes. After you obtain hit cap, start replacing all of these with straight +spell damage.
Edited, Jun 25th 2008 10:34am by wingsofscion
Bosses: Doom -> Immolate -> SL -> UA -> Corruption -> Shadow Bolts (swap Doom for a utility curse in 25-mans)
Short lived elite trash: Corruption -> Shadow Bolt spam -> Drain Soul
Long lived elite trash: CoS -> Immolate -> SL -> UA -> Corruption -> Shadow Bolts (don't refresh dots)
Non-elite trash: Drain Soul
Why I use the rotations I do:
Immolate->SL will utilize your GCD in the same way that UA->Corruption does, but Immolate is less likely to drop off at the same time that UA/Corruption do with this rotation. Eventually, it will drop off at the same time though. Also, of the course of a several minute boss fight, Doom will be higher personal dps than Agony will, because you only need to refresh it once a minute as opposed to 2-3 times a minute, and that leaves you enough time for another shadow bolt or two - and CoD + shadow bolt does more damage than CoA + shadow bolt in the same amount of time.
Also, because of the damage per cast time/damage per mana, Siphon Life is definitely worth casting on bosses. Remember that the overhealing it will give you does not cause threat, but it still does damage. If you're having problems with debuff slots (which shouldn't be the case in 10-mans), drop Immolate before you drop SL. Immolate does have a higher damage per mana ratio than Shadow Bolt, if I remember correctly, but it also is the first debuff you should drop, because you're more than likely to have more shadow damage than fire.
When it comes to refreshing DoTs, I would suggest getting Quartz, DoTimer or another mod that will help you time your DoTs. In my opinion, Quartz is the best for this, because it will also show you your cast times with latency, so you can start casting sooner, plus it has a debuff timer built into it for both your regular target and your focus target (useful for seducing in heroics or banishing whenever, including in Kara). For UA and Immolate, start casting them about 1-1.3 seconds before they fall off - not AS they fall off.
Finally, are you hit capped at 202 spell hit? There are no talents in the Destruction or Demonology tree to help you achieve your spell hit goal, so you will want to be hit capped regardless of your spec, because Soulshatter and Shadow Bolt don't have that +hit bonus like Affliction spells do from Suppression.
Regarding any points in Demonology: Improved Shadow Bolt and Destructive Reach are MUST HAVES for raiding as an affliction warlock. Improved Imp is a negligible talent - 260 hit points means very little. Here is the actual spec I use for raiding, at 203 spell hit (1 over cap) and 1100 unbuffed shadow damage. I get to utilize my points in Malediction for 25-mans, but it's not so important in 10-mans, so you can opt for Improved Howl of Terror or Nightfall, and stick one other point anywhere you choose (maybe improved healthstone?).
A couple of trinkets you might consider in lieu of what you have, though, are the Scryer's Bloodgem (especially if you're not hit capped) and the Icon of the Silver Crescent. If you are hit capped without the Bloodgem, then try to get either Quagmirran's Eye from Heroic Slave Pens or Darkmoon Card: Crusade (as an affliction lock, the buff will almost constantly be up on the DMC:C).
Note: If you are a tailor, get the Frozen Shadoweave set, as well as the Spellstrike set - this will ultimately help you in your quest for spell hit, and they last a long time. Even if you're NOT a tailor, the Spellstrike set is invaluable because of the spell hit (you just don't get the set bonus).
Edit - Armory started working for me.
Suggestions on enchants:
Gloves: Spell Strike (+15 spell hit)
Legs: Mystic/Runic Spellthread
Boots: Stamina or Boar's Speed
Head: The revered head enchant from the Sha'tar
Shoulders: Revered/Exalted with Aldor/Scryet (depending on your faction)
Chest: +6 stats
Wrists: +4 stats, +healing or +spell damage. Yes, +healing is worth it; you get a minimal drop in spell damage from the spell damage enchant, but it's cheaper.
Cloak: SUBTLETY. There is only one PvE enchant for cloaks, and Subtlety is it.
Gear suggestions:
Replace your T4 helm with the Spellstrike Hood, and get it enchanted; it doesn't have slots, so no gems, but Spellstrike > T4 helm.
Back: Sethekk Oracle Cloak should be fine (I think it's from Sethekk Halls? Not sure), because of the +hit. Otherwise go for the cape from Prince in Kara, or get the cloak from Delrissa in Magister's Terrace.
Bracers: Silk Cuffs from PvP.
Main Hand: Get something with spell hit. S2 dagger (since S4 just started), Continuum Blade (Keepers of Time revered), Greatsword of Horrid Dreams (Shadow Labyrinth normal, from Murmur).
Offhand: Pick up the spell hit offhand from Black Morass, or Orb of the Soul Eater from badges.
Wand: Shade's wand, period. The Black Stalk from Heroic Underbog works just as well for trash/post hit cap, as well.
Gloves: T4 gloves are useless, except for 2pc bonus later on, which should go with the shoulders, not the helm. Get the Gloves of Arcane Acuity from Kael'thas in Magister's, The Handwraps of Flowing Thought from Attumen, or the Gloves of Oblivion (I forget whether it's Shattered Halls or Shadow Labyrinth where they drop).
Belt: Get the Sash of Serpentra from Steamvaults, or get a Belt of Blasting crafted for you.
Pants: The Oblivion pants are fine, but you want to upgrade these to Spellstrike also, especially as you will get set bonus from being a tailor.
Rings: Cenarion Expedition Exalted (Ashyen's Gift) and Fused Nethergon Band (badges).
Trinkets: Icon of the Silver Crescent (badges), Scryer's Bloodgem if you are Scryer (revered), Quagmirran's Eye (Heroic Slave Pens), Darkmoon Card: Crusade.
How to gem:
For your red and yellow slots, put Veiled Noble Topazes in everything. For blue slots, use Glowing Nightseyes. After you obtain hit cap, start replacing all of these with straight +spell damage.
Edited, Jun 25th 2008 10:34am by wingsofscion
Great replies, thanks everyone.
I'll address the gear comments first:
I have the first engineering head item, but I preferred the tier4 for the 2-piece set bonus. Is spellstrike hood better than my goggles? And are either better than T4 with set bonus? (I'm gonna drop the T4 helm once I get any other piece of T4, because I like the proc)
I'll keep an eye out for those, especially the drop from Prince.
That's hard, as you can see from my arena ratings and total PvP kills, I am not much of a PvPer. I found out that both Attumen and Maiden drop cloth dps bracers, and I'm keeping an eye out for one of those.
I'll try for the S2 dagger, I was very happy to get this dagger off Prince though
. KoT revered, might happen as well. Shadow Labs, I'm done, no more SL for me, we farmed the hell out of it and it just isn't fun anymore.
Hmm, badges for this or pants? And isn't spell hit kinda moot after a certain point with affliction locks?
Shade of Aran you mean? We're downing him every week, no wand drops yet.
Hehe, I just got those, and was happy with them since they replaced a crappy blue I had. Will try to get the MGT drop, it's the instance I'm still enjoying.
OK
I had hoped to get the badge pants for 100 badges, but all things considered, if the spellstrike pants are good enough, I can use the badge offhand.
Both are pretty far down the road for me, but I'll keep an eye out for them, heroic reservoir runs are still fast enough to be fun.
The one that's most likely in this case is Quagmirran's Eye, badges are not plentiful enough to get all I want yet.
I'll make another post for the enchants, seeing as the quote limit is close.
About the spell rotations, I'm gonna try them all and post my impressions, thanks a lot for the info.
I'll address the gear comments first:
Quote:
Replace your T4 helm with the Spellstrike Hood, and get it enchanted; it doesn't have slots, so no gems, but Spellstrike > T4 helm.
I have the first engineering head item, but I preferred the tier4 for the 2-piece set bonus. Is spellstrike hood better than my goggles? And are either better than T4 with set bonus? (I'm gonna drop the T4 helm once I get any other piece of T4, because I like the proc)
Quote:
Back: Sethekk Oracle Cloak should be fine (I think it's from Sethekk Halls? Not sure), because of the +hit. Otherwise go for the cape from Prince in Kara, or get the cloak from Delrissa in Magister's Terrace.
I'll keep an eye out for those, especially the drop from Prince.
Quote:
Bracers: Silk Cuffs from PvP.
That's hard, as you can see from my arena ratings and total PvP kills, I am not much of a PvPer. I found out that both Attumen and Maiden drop cloth dps bracers, and I'm keeping an eye out for one of those.
Quote:
Main Hand: Get something with spell hit. S2 dagger (since S4 just started), Continuum Blade (Keepers of Time revered), Greatsword of Horrid Dreams (Shadow Labyrinth normal, from Murmur).
I'll try for the S2 dagger, I was very happy to get this dagger off Prince though
. KoT revered, might happen as well. Shadow Labs, I'm done, no more SL for me, we farmed the hell out of it and it just isn't fun anymore. Quote:
Offhand: Pick up the spell hit offhand from Black Morass, or Orb of the Soul Eater from badges.
Hmm, badges for this or pants? And isn't spell hit kinda moot after a certain point with affliction locks?
Quote:
Wand: Shade's wand, period. The Black Stalk from Heroic Underbog works just as well for trash/post hit cap, as well.
Shade of Aran you mean? We're downing him every week, no wand drops yet.
Quote:
Gloves: T4 gloves are useless, except for 2pc bonus later on, which should go with the shoulders, not the helm. Get the Gloves of Arcane Acuity from Kael'thas in Magister's, The Handwraps of Flowing Thought from Attumen, or the Gloves of Oblivion (I forget whether it's Shattered Halls or Shadow Labyrinth where they drop).
Hehe, I just got those, and was happy with them since they replaced a crappy blue I had. Will try to get the MGT drop, it's the instance I'm still enjoying. Quote:
Belt: Get the Sash of Serpentra from Steamvaults, or get a Belt of Blasting crafted for you.
OK
Quote:
Pants: The Oblivion pants are fine, but you want to upgrade these to Spellstrike also, especially as you will get set bonus from being a tailor.
I had hoped to get the badge pants for 100 badges, but all things considered, if the spellstrike pants are good enough, I can use the badge offhand.
Quote:
Rings: Cenarion Expedition Exalted (Ashyen's Gift) and Fused Nethergon Band (badges).
Both are pretty far down the road for me, but I'll keep an eye out for them, heroic reservoir runs are still fast enough to be fun.
Quote:
Trinkets: Icon of the Silver Crescent (badges), Scryer's Bloodgem if you are Scryer (revered), Quagmirran's Eye (Heroic Slave Pens), Darkmoon Card: Crusade.
The one that's most likely in this case is Quagmirran's Eye, badges are not plentiful enough to get all I want yet.
I'll make another post for the enchants, seeing as the quote limit is close.
About the spell rotations, I'm gonna try them all and post my impressions, thanks a lot for the info.
Now for the enchants:
I have the 15 spell hit on gloves... Armory isn't showing it.
I have 25 spell damage and 15 stamina on legs. Not going to pay for the expensive one until I've gotten my 100 badges to secure GOOD leggings. Or Spellstrike if that's what I'll end up with.
I have 10 stamina on boots, I'll try to get a better stamina enchant on it (boar's speed is redundant with my meta gem on both heads I own).
I have 22SP and 14 SHR on both heads, T4 and Engineering goggles.
I have the Aldor ones.
Hmmm, I'll go for that, 150 life is 150 mana, but +6 stats will give me 60 life and 90 mana, so I still win a little on spirit and stamina... Hope it's worth the cost.
I'll change the int, I believed the crit from int was nice enough, as well as the mana (I find I'm wasting too many GCDs just getting my mana back from my imp or from lifetap).
Trust me, I tried to get this, but no one I know has it.
Once again, thanks for the replies.
Quote:
Gloves: Spell Strike (+15 spell hit)
I have the 15 spell hit on gloves... Armory isn't showing it.
Quote:
Legs: Mystic/Runic Spellthread
I have 25 spell damage and 15 stamina on legs. Not going to pay for the expensive one until I've gotten my 100 badges to secure GOOD leggings. Or Spellstrike if that's what I'll end up with.
Quote:
Boots: Stamina or Boar's Speed
I have 10 stamina on boots, I'll try to get a better stamina enchant on it (boar's speed is redundant with my meta gem on both heads I own).
Quote:
Head: The revered head enchant from the Sha'tar
I have 22SP and 14 SHR on both heads, T4 and Engineering goggles.
Quote:
Shoulders: Revered/Exalted with Aldor/Scryet (depending on your faction)
I have the Aldor ones.
Quote:
Chest: +6 stats
Hmmm, I'll go for that, 150 life is 150 mana, but +6 stats will give me 60 life and 90 mana, so I still win a little on spirit and stamina... Hope it's worth the cost.
Quote:
Wrists: +4 stats, +healing or +spell damage. Yes, +healing is worth it; you get a minimal drop in spell damage from the spell damage enchant, but it's cheaper.
I'll change the int, I believed the crit from int was nice enough, as well as the mana (I find I'm wasting too many GCDs just getting my mana back from my imp or from lifetap).
Quote:
Cloak: SUBTLETY. There is only one PvE enchant for cloaks, and Subtlety is it.
Trust me, I tried to get this, but no one I know has it.
Once again, thanks for the replies.
Quote:
I have the first engineering head item, but I preferred the tier4 for the 2-piece set bonus. Is spellstrike hood better than my goggles? And are either better than T4 with set bonus? (I'm gonna drop the T4 helm once I get any other piece of T4, because I like the proc)
Until there is a little better gear out there, yes, the Spellstrike Hood is better than the Engineering helm. However, you shouldn't be trying to use the T4 set bonus just yet, as you're really lacking in spell hit - Point for point, until you get capped, spell hit is by and large the greatest increase in your DPS. This changes based on whether you have a draenei caster or elemental shaman in your group consistently. (1% off hit cap for you if any casting draenei always in your group and always alive, 3% if horde elemental shaman, 4% if draenei elemental shaman).
Quote:
That's hard, as you can see from my arena ratings and total PvP kills, I am not much of a PvPer. I found out that both Attumen and Maiden drop cloth dps bracers, and I'm keeping an eye out for one of those.
Actually, just do a few battlegrounds and get the honor bracers; you don't need to do arena for them, and they are actually superior to anything in T4 content that you will find, and equivalent to a lot of the T5 content. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33913 12k honor and 20 warsong gulch marks, which is actually fairly easy to obtain, and you can socket with a VNT or a spell damage gem. In addition to that, the added crit on the silk bracers makes them top notch for when you are geared for DS/SnF, and keeping up improved shadow bolt.
Quote:
Hmm, badges for this or pants? And isn't spell hit kinda moot after a certain point with affliction locks?
Spell hit is ALWAYS important, as any kind of warlock. Shadow Bolt still should be a major portion of your damage (around 40% - closer to 45% if you are not using Immolate). Remember that many spells don't benefit from Suppression - Immolate, Soulshatter, Enslave Demon, Banish, Shadow Bolt, etc. Suppression ONLY affects your affliction spells, and quite frankly, Shadow Bolt > Drain Life for DPS. Thus, you need to get as close to 202 as possible, especially if you don't have any draenei/elemental shamans always in your group. This is also why you should spec for Destructive Reach - Shadow Bolt causes insane threat, and Soulshatter is on a 5 minute cooldown.
Quote:
I had hoped to get the badge pants for 100 badges, but all things considered, if the spellstrike pants are good enough, I can use the badge offhand.
Right now, you want to work on your spell hit and damage before you do anything else, so the Badge pants may be something to consider, but by and large, they're not going to do you any good until you've got plenty of spell hit and damage.
Quote:
Both are pretty far down the road for me, but I'll keep an eye out for them, heroic reservoir runs are still fast enough to be fun.
Ashyen's Gift is actually a very nice ring to have; if you haven't done ALL of the quests in both Zangarmarsh and Blade's Edge Mountains, that's a good place to start. I was farming the Sash of Serpentra FOREVER before I farmed mats for the Belt of Blasting, and got 2/3 of the way through revered in just Steamvaults (which, actually, is really easy on heroic).
Quote:
The one that's most likely in this case is Quagmirran's Eye, badges are not plentiful enough to get all I want yet.
I didn't get a chance to check your reputations (Armory hates me generally and locks up my computer), but if you are Aldor, then the Bloodgem isn't really an option - however, it is one of the best +hit items out there on your way to hit cap. Never mind that given the IQD dailies, Scryer rep is insanely easy to farm now.
Quote:
I have the 15 spell hit on gloves... Armory isn't showing it.
Right, I noticed that. After hit capped, get Spellpower (+20 spell damage) enchanted.
Quote:
I have 25 spell damage and 15 stamina on legs. Not going to pay for the expensive one until I've gotten my 100 badges to secure GOOD leggings. Or Spellstrike if that's what I'll end up with.
I would use the Mystic on the Oblivion, yes. But use the Runic on anything purple, regardless of whether you replace it right away or not. Higher spell damage = higher dps = bosses dead faster = more phat lewtz sooner.
Quote:
I have 10 stamina on boots, I'll try to get a better stamina enchant on it (boar's speed is redundant with my meta gem on both heads I own).
Well, with a Spellstrike Hood, there's no meta gem. But when you do have a helm with a meta gem, get a Mystical Skyfire Diamond (affliction) or Chaotic Skyfire Diamond (destruction) as your meta gems, not a speed increase.
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I have 22SP and 14 SHR on both heads, T4 and Engineering goggles.
Good good. :) Get this on EVERY helm you get that is an upgrade.
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Hmmm, I'll go for that, 150 life is 150 mana, but +6 stats will give me 60 life and 90 mana, so I still win a little on spirit and stamina... Hope it's worth the cost.
+6 stats scales with Blessing of Kings, however, which will give you extra mana and hp. You have no reason to be stacking spirit in any case, but it is beneficial for your mana pool (int - which also scales down to your pet) and health pool (which is effectiely your mana pool anyway).
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I'll change the int, I believed the crit from int was nice enough, as well as the mana (I find I'm wasting too many GCDs just getting my mana back from my imp or from lifetap).
The crit from int isn't all that great, really; you'd benefit more in the long run from stats (again, BoKings) or some form of spell damage. The thing with your Dark Pact is also that after around 800 or so shadow damage, you will only be able to effectively Dark Pact one time before the second Dark Pact becomes a loss in mana gain. Life Tap also returns more mana per GCD than Dark Pact does.
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Trust me, I tried to get this, but no one I know has it.
Subtlety is actually a difficult enchant to obtain in the first place - it requires exalted with Honor Hold/Thrallmar, and I know myself that I hated farming that rep (many a Shattered Halls run, lemme tell you... Still don't have that Spellstrike pattern). It will probably take some time in the trade channel to find someone that is willing/able to do that enchant. If not, then see if one of your guildmates is willing to try to get the rep for the enchant.
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Once again, thanks for the replies.
You're quite welcome. :)
You could do with a bit of a respec as well. If there's either one other shadow-damage-dealer, or two people doing fire/frost damage (mages), you want to use Curse of Shadows/Elements, and that means you want Malediction. You're missing out on 5% crit from the Destruction tree, and a large portion of your time and damage is from shadowbolting, so that's worth it. You don't really need the extra health or the improved imp from Destro, I'd take the points from there.
Make *sure* you're not refreshing DoT's early, and throw Immolate in there as well. With the rotation you described, you're clipping Siphon Life and Curse of Agony (and you're clipping the high-damage portion of it as well), and might clip Immolate as well. You want a DoT to be refreshed as close to the time it ticks off, WITHOUT overwriting the last tick. Get a DoT timer if you don't have one; I like ClassTimer myself. Start casting UA/Immolate so that it hit a fraction of a second after the last tick, so that it's not being clipped.
As for your meta, I'd go with either Insightful Earthstorm (mana regen) or Chaotic Skyfire (crit hurt more). I'm unsure as to which one is better.
As for trash, you learn after a while which mobs last long enough to have your DoT's tick off on them. For example, on the horses at the beginning of Kara, I'd use Immolate and possibly Corruption and then just shadowbolt. For the robots, I'd throw everything up, possibly refreshing but only if it looks like they'll last almost the whole duration. If you have two mobs being tanked by two players, throw the relevant DoT's up on both of them and then switch back to the first to shadowbolt.
Make *sure* you're not refreshing DoT's early, and throw Immolate in there as well. With the rotation you described, you're clipping Siphon Life and Curse of Agony (and you're clipping the high-damage portion of it as well), and might clip Immolate as well. You want a DoT to be refreshed as close to the time it ticks off, WITHOUT overwriting the last tick. Get a DoT timer if you don't have one; I like ClassTimer myself. Start casting UA/Immolate so that it hit a fraction of a second after the last tick, so that it's not being clipped.
As for your meta, I'd go with either Insightful Earthstorm (mana regen) or Chaotic Skyfire (crit hurt more). I'm unsure as to which one is better.
As for trash, you learn after a while which mobs last long enough to have your DoT's tick off on them. For example, on the horses at the beginning of Kara, I'd use Immolate and possibly Corruption and then just shadowbolt. For the robots, I'd throw everything up, possibly refreshing but only if it looks like they'll last almost the whole duration. If you have two mobs being tanked by two players, throw the relevant DoT's up on both of them and then switch back to the first to shadowbolt.
Scholar
45 posts
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You could do with a bit of a respec as well. If there's either one other shadow-damage-dealer, or two people doing fire/frost damage (mages), you want to use Curse of Shadows/Elements, and that means you want Malediction. You're missing out on 5% crit from the Destruction tree, and a large portion of your time and damage is from shadowbolting, so that's worth it. You don't really need the extra health or the improved imp from Destro, I'd take the points from there.
Make *sure* you're not refreshing DoT's early, and throw Immolate in there as well. With the rotation you described, you're clipping Siphon Life and Curse of Agony (and you're clipping the high-damage portion of it as well), and might clip Immolate as well. You want a DoT to be refreshed as close to the time it ticks off, WITHOUT overwriting the last tick. Get a DoT timer if you don't have one; I like ClassTimer myself. Start casting UA/Immolate so that it hit a fraction of a second after the last tick, so that it's not being clipped.
As for your meta, I'd go with either Insightful Earthstorm (mana regen) or Chaotic Skyfire (crit hurt more). I'm unsure as to which one is better.
As for trash, you learn after a while which mobs last long enough to have your DoT's tick off on them. For example, on the horses at the beginning of Kara, I'd use Immolate and possibly Corruption and then just shadowbolt. For the robots, I'd throw everything up, possibly refreshing but only if it looks like they'll last almost the whole duration. If you have two mobs being tanked by two players, throw the relevant DoT's up on both of them and then switch back to the first to shadowbolt.
Make *sure* you're not refreshing DoT's early, and throw Immolate in there as well. With the rotation you described, you're clipping Siphon Life and Curse of Agony (and you're clipping the high-damage portion of it as well), and might clip Immolate as well. You want a DoT to be refreshed as close to the time it ticks off, WITHOUT overwriting the last tick. Get a DoT timer if you don't have one; I like ClassTimer myself. Start casting UA/Immolate so that it hit a fraction of a second after the last tick, so that it's not being clipped.
As for your meta, I'd go with either Insightful Earthstorm (mana regen) or Chaotic Skyfire (crit hurt more). I'm unsure as to which one is better.
As for trash, you learn after a while which mobs last long enough to have your DoT's tick off on them. For example, on the horses at the beginning of Kara, I'd use Immolate and possibly Corruption and then just shadowbolt. For the robots, I'd throw everything up, possibly refreshing but only if it looks like they'll last almost the whole duration. If you have two mobs being tanked by two players, throw the relevant DoT's up on both of them and then switch back to the first to shadowbolt.
I agree with all of this except for the meta. Don't worry about mana regen, that's what life tap/dark pact are for. I'd go with chaotic skyfire or the +spell dmg meta gem. Drop immolate from your rotation if there are issues with debuffs being knocked off the target(which will be unlikely in a 10 man,but possible in a 25 man depending on the raid makeup)
Wow, great advice again.
I tried different rotations this weekend in Kara, and I have to admit that there was a slight improvement.
On low HP trash I use Corruption / Shadow Bolts, and on the higher HP ones I'm DoTing away to my heart's content, including immolation, and then shadowbolting.
Good tip about a Dot Timer, I'll get one tonight.
I won the cloak off Prince, and bought the badge belt with spell hit on it (after 4 days of not finding belt of blasting for sale anywhere), getting to 113 Spell hit already. A little bit more and I'll respec. Or should I do it already, and damn the lowered resistance to affliction spells?
About the meta, it's the one thing those damn spirit shards are still good for, cheap meta gems. 12 Spell damage isn't good enough? (I am having a lot of cash flow trouble, so re-gemming and re-enchanting is gonna take some time, I prefer to gem/enchant what's missing first before overwriting second rate stuff)
Oh, and content wise, I'm still on Kara/heroics. I'd need a bigger guild for Gruul's and Mag, so that's out. I'll try to make do with badge gear and heroics/Kara drops.
Very helpful forum, thanks guys/gals.
I tried different rotations this weekend in Kara, and I have to admit that there was a slight improvement.
On low HP trash I use Corruption / Shadow Bolts, and on the higher HP ones I'm DoTing away to my heart's content, including immolation, and then shadowbolting.
Good tip about a Dot Timer, I'll get one tonight.
I won the cloak off Prince, and bought the badge belt with spell hit on it (after 4 days of not finding belt of blasting for sale anywhere), getting to 113 Spell hit already. A little bit more and I'll respec. Or should I do it already, and damn the lowered resistance to affliction spells?
About the meta, it's the one thing those damn spirit shards are still good for, cheap meta gems. 12 Spell damage isn't good enough? (I am having a lot of cash flow trouble, so re-gemming and re-enchanting is gonna take some time, I prefer to gem/enchant what's missing first before overwriting second rate stuff)
Oh, and content wise, I'm still on Kara/heroics. I'd need a bigger guild for Gruul's and Mag, so that's out. I'll try to make do with badge gear and heroics/Kara drops.
Very helpful forum, thanks guys/gals.
You probably won't find a Belt of Blasting for sale. You'll have to gather the mats and have it crafted for you. Its pretty expensive, with 2 nether vortexes running 350g each on my server.
Oh, I asked on trade chat a lot more than I checked the AH. I couldn't find any belt of blasting crafters. Then I bought the badge belt, then 1 day later I found a crafter... I'll upgrade some other slot before I throw away those 60 badges 
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Oh, and content wise, I'm still on Kara/heroics. I'd need a bigger guild for Gruul's and Mag, so that's out. I'll try to make do with badge gear and heroics/Kara drops.
Well, as a tailor, and not being able to get past Kara/heroics just yet, the Spellstrike Hood is bar none going to be the best helm you can get your hands on, in addition to Spellstrike Pants and the 3-pc Frozen Shadoweave set, so you're not even going to need a meta gem of any sort. As a tailor, you get the Spellstrike set bonus, which just makes it that good.
It is entirely possible to get hit capped with ZERO Kara gear, too - and in fact, with no badge gear, but it is a good way to jump start. I would continue with the Badge Belt for now and upgrade that almost last (depending on how your gearing goes). I considered the badge belt for a long time, but one day farmed out fifteen primal fires (yeah, that was pleasant) and the other mats needed for the BoB - trust me, it's worth it.
Also, as for bracers, get the Vindicator's Silk Bracers, not the new ones since they require a rating to get (they're actually on the last page of the non-set pvp gear, and they may have gone down in price, so to speak).
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Don't worry about mana regen, that's what life tap/dark pact are for.
Every time you tap, that means you're not shadowbolting, which means you're losing damage. Just to illustrate, at T6-level gear, you're losing ~2500 damage every time you tap. Granted, it's much less significant at Kara-level, but it's still something to consider. Though like I said, for affliction at Kara level I really don't know what meta is the most useful, Chaotic, Ember, or Insightful.
I'm Affliction. Here's what I have, gear-wise now:
Armory if it works
Warcrafter if it doesn't
I need a new trinket, keep chasing Exalted Violet Eye ring and get badge ring (Fused Nethergon Band), Runed Spell Cuffs (badges) Spellstrike pants and Ruby Drape to replace an ok-ish cloak.
That is fine for T4 and T5 content I reckon.
Beyond that, you're gonna wanna farm badges for Demonsoul robes, Boots of incantations to start replacing your Frozen Shadoweave.
Your build (and mine) needs tweaking. Outside of that, your DPS is wholly dependent on your skill. So play around for a play style and rotation that suits you while you try to up your DPS. And remember...don't waste DoTs on trash. Something I am STILL guilty of!!!
Armory if it works
Warcrafter if it doesn't
I need a new trinket, keep chasing Exalted Violet Eye ring and get badge ring (Fused Nethergon Band), Runed Spell Cuffs (badges) Spellstrike pants and Ruby Drape to replace an ok-ish cloak.
That is fine for T4 and T5 content I reckon.
Beyond that, you're gonna wanna farm badges for Demonsoul robes, Boots of incantations to start replacing your Frozen Shadoweave.
Your build (and mine) needs tweaking. Outside of that, your DPS is wholly dependent on your skill. So play around for a play style and rotation that suits you while you try to up your DPS. And remember...don't waste DoTs on trash. Something I am STILL guilty of!!!
Scholar
45 posts
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Every time you tap, that means you're not shadowbolting, which means you're losing damage.
Yes, but you're never going to have enough mana regen to take lifetap out of the equation, especially since we have 0 talents for mana regen while in combat. You'll get more benefit out of gemming for spell dmg to hit harder(thereby killing something faster) than you will trying to gem to maintain mana, especially as affliction. I've heard the chaotic is better than spell dmg even for affliction, but it's been awhile since I respecced to dest so couldn't tell you on that. Personally I use the chaotic.
As for the op, I wouldn't worry about changing your meta at this point. For some reason firefox is freezing on me every time I try to check your armory, but I'm assuming you're using the T4 helm? As another poster pointed out the spellstrike is better anyways at your levels, and it doesn't even require a meta. :) Your best bet is to save your gold for the spellstrike as opposed to replacing your meta.
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Yes, but you're never going to have enough mana regen to take lifetap out of the equation, especially since we have 0 talents for mana regen while in combat. You'll get more benefit out of gemming for spell dmg to hit harder(thereby killing something faster) than you will trying to gem to maintain mana, especially as affliction.
In addition to this, Life Tap does scale off of shadow damage at an 80% coefficient, so it makes it all that much more worthwhile. Even as affliction, I tend to use Life Tap over Dark Pact, except in certain encounters (in Karazhan gear, however, Dark Pact should prove superior on almost every fight, but I use Life Tap anyway).
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keep chasing Exalted Violet Eye ring and get badge ring (Fused Nethergon Band),
I would agree with the Fused Nethergon Band, but the Ring of Recurrence that you get from the Chess event is better than the VE ring by far. And if still needing hit cap, then Ashyen's Gift is also superior to the VE ring.
Well, I respecced, even though I'm not that close to the hit rating cap.
My armory link is still in my first post. I drew my inspiration from the spec wingsofscion linked.
I never liked shadow embrace, and our tank isn't really getting to a point where 5% less damage from the boss can make or break the fight. I put 2 points in imp curse of agony, 2 in nightfall, and 1 in Imp Howl of terror.
I also skipped out on the 2 points in intensity (if i'm getting interrupted while casting shadow bolts I must be doing something wrong) and put them into imp healthstone.
Other than that, the builds were identical.
I am now working on my PvP Bracers.
Thanks for the good advice everyone.
My armory link is still in my first post. I drew my inspiration from the spec wingsofscion linked.
I never liked shadow embrace, and our tank isn't really getting to a point where 5% less damage from the boss can make or break the fight. I put 2 points in imp curse of agony, 2 in nightfall, and 1 in Imp Howl of terror.
I also skipped out on the 2 points in intensity (if i'm getting interrupted while casting shadow bolts I must be doing something wrong) and put them into imp healthstone.
Other than that, the builds were identical.
I am now working on my PvP Bracers.
Thanks for the good advice everyone.
Why take Imp CoA? You have Malediction, so will probably be using CoS/CoE. Points better spent in Suppression with your Hit. Also, one point in Shadow Embrace counts as an Affliction effect and boosts your drain life through Soul Siphon which can help when solo farming/doing dalies.
While I did take Malediction for raiding, I thought I'd benefit from CoA because I won't always use those curses (If I'm the only warlock and no shadow priests, or only 1 mage). In the next patch, when CoS and CoE will be combined, I see myself using it more (so another respec).
About my hit rating, it took me a lot of consideration to spec out of Suppression, and I'm serious about reaching 202 hit rating with gear, not talents.
I'll see if I can spare a point for shadow embrace, though.
Thanks for the advice.
About my hit rating, it took me a lot of consideration to spec out of Suppression, and I'm serious about reaching 202 hit rating with gear, not talents.
I'll see if I can spare a point for shadow embrace, though.
Thanks for the advice.
Even if you're gonna use CoA, it really doesn't add all that much and adding Hit will probably give you more DPS.
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I never liked shadow embrace, and our tank isn't really getting to a point where 5% less damage from the boss can make or break the fight. I put 2 points in imp curse of agony, 2 in nightfall, and 1 in Imp Howl of terror.
Go with 2/2 Nightfall, 2/2 Howl of Terror and 1/5 Shadow Embrace. 1% flat mitigation is still some stress ease on your healers, and also adds to the effect of Soul Siphon. Those points in Improved Healthstone are definitely not necessary, either, but that's all up to preference. Personally, I like Intensity for a vast array of reasons (AoE damage, my grinding method, battlegrounds, etc.), hence the spec I posted previously. Essentially, what you have is a modified 41/0/17+3 build. I'd rather go with this if I was going to take Imp. HS over Intensity, though:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IVMrfRfkqtbobZxx0tM
- 1 point in SE for Soul Siphon/mitigation (also helps while grinding)
- 2/2 iCoA for grinding/PvP
- 2/2 iHoT for grinding/PvP
- CoEx for PvP (and some cases in raiding/PvP)
Some people prefer 5/5 Fel Concentration over 3/5, but I find that in the end it makes no real difference. And beyond that, Drain Life in a raid situation generally is not a good thing (unless we're talking Netherspite, but that's a different scenario altogether). If you're going to go for Malediction, drop CoEx and both points in Imp. HS and throw them into Malediction. You'll end up with this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IVMrfRfkVtfoZxx0tM
Reasons for Intensity:
- Shade of Aran: He has no threat table, so you will be targeted occasionally for his various spells
- Nightbane: Rain of Bones, mostly
- Prince: Axes
- Curator: Searing Pain spamming the Astral Flares
- Opera: If you're on Scarecrow duty during Oz, Searing Pain/Immolate/Incinerate spamming
- Illhoof: Occasionally, it may be worth it to use Hellfire instead of Seed of Corruption. Granted, this is mostly for a Nether Protection spec, but it still applies
- Magister's Terrace: After you've been seeding the mana wyrms and they've aggrod you, Hellfire is a pretty good way to finish them off
- Magister's Terrace: Well, just in general. Lots of NPC AoE goodness here
- Shadow Labyrinth: Inevitably, you'll be tanking something in the room before Blackheart the Inciter
- Pretty much any burst spell in PvP
- I grind with Shadow Bolt, but this is up to you. As a single-target farmer (I have no iHoT due to raid speccing), I prefer to sbolt to death rather than drain tank a dozen mobs (as it is actually doable with iHoT, not so much with the cast time)
These are the reasons I like Intensity over Nightfall, iHoT or other talents. At a certain point, CoA will be doing enough damage anyway to kill stuff with SL and Corruption you won't need it to be improved for grinding anyway. Intensity is mostly because of the major AoE battles you'll come across in raiding. Also, in a raid situation, you're better off using Curse of Doom than Curse of Agony anyway if you're not on one of the Malediction curses (this applies to 25-mans, too).
#showtooltip Curse of Doom /use 13 /use 14 /cast Amplify Curse /cast Curse of Doom
^ a fairly simplified CoD macro. I use a focus macro for Curator, though.
The reason CoD > CoA is because in the same amount of time, you apply CoD fewer times. In one minute, that's already an extra shadow bolt and a half (due to GCD from CoA). Never mind the awkward timing of CoA.
Keep working toward the Spellstrike set, too. Yes, it's that good. Also, if you NEED the blue gems in your FSW set, make sure they're glowing Nightseyes, as they give you spell damage in addition to stamina - and more spell damage = more dps (this is also the reason you want to aim for using Veiled Noble Topazes instead of Great Dawnstones). Spellstrike socket bonuses are useless; use VNTs and Runed red gems (Living Rubies/Crimson Spinels).
Before I forget - another note about blue sockets. It's only worth it in socket bonuses that allow for more spell hit (like Frozen Shadoweave bonuses). It's *not* worth it in socket bonuses like the Belt of Blasting or Spellstrike, because you can easily throw in VNTs or Runed Living Rubies (depending on where your spell hit is at). So, when the socket bonus is more spell hit, use a purple gem (Glowing Nightseye, for example). There are also some epic +hit/dmg gems you'll want to look for from heroics (I believe they are considered green gems, but can't be entirely sure).
Edited, Jul 12th 2008 3:40am by wingsofscion
Hello again.
After many upgrades in gear, I took the advice of changing to Destruction for raiding. My gear and my spec are on the first link in the original post.
Thanks to the many useful posts in this thread:
- I took the trouble to get the new PvP bracers enchanted with spell power
- Enchanted the new Spellstrike Pants with Runic Spellthread
- Flushed 60 badges down the toilet changing from my badge belt to the Belt of Blasting
- Got a good enough offhand from Nightbane (still want to buy the badge offhand, but it's no longer a big priority)
- Got a nice damage trinket to replace my old blue.
- Got the other trinket from badge gear.
I still need to get a good wand, the badge ring, and the CE exalted ring (although it's hard to decide to drop the other rings I have)
My spec is a little modified, not so sure it's good enough, but last night I topped the DPS charts and didn't have to steal aggro to do that
On trash, my new rotation is Immolation, Shadowbolt spam (unless it's a bit high HP then I get a Curse of Elements off)
On bosses, Curse of Elements, Immolation, Corruption, and Shadowbolt spam, refreshing DoTs when needed.
Once again, thanks for the great advice, and if you have any more hints, I'm all ears.
After many upgrades in gear, I took the advice of changing to Destruction for raiding. My gear and my spec are on the first link in the original post.
Thanks to the many useful posts in this thread:
- I took the trouble to get the new PvP bracers enchanted with spell power
- Enchanted the new Spellstrike Pants with Runic Spellthread
- Flushed 60 badges down the toilet changing from my badge belt to the Belt of Blasting
- Got a good enough offhand from Nightbane (still want to buy the badge offhand, but it's no longer a big priority)
- Got a nice damage trinket to replace my old blue.
- Got the other trinket from badge gear.
I still need to get a good wand, the badge ring, and the CE exalted ring (although it's hard to decide to drop the other rings I have)
My spec is a little modified, not so sure it's good enough, but last night I topped the DPS charts and didn't have to steal aggro to do that
On trash, my new rotation is Immolation, Shadowbolt spam (unless it's a bit high HP then I get a Curse of Elements off)
On bosses, Curse of Elements, Immolation, Corruption, and Shadowbolt spam, refreshing DoTs when needed.
Once again, thanks for the great advice, and if you have any more hints, I'm all ears.
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