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I <3 MutilateFollow
at 58 i tried it for a bit, couldn't get into it. i missed ar, riposte, and blade flurry. and when you're mutilate @ 58 with underleveled dagger skill, level 60 adds suck hard :)
#28REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 28 2008 at 2:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thank you for agreeing with me.
My rogues basically my PVP alt, but I want to try mutilate. It's just I need so much other gear before I can justify blowing 27,000 honor on a pair of daggers for fun. I will though, just need to replace tons of gear first.
Briefly considered Muti since I got the second 1.8 dagger from HFP quests at 60 ... nice weapons, both of them .. and ideal for Muti. I also wanted to have experienced (albeit briefly) all aspects of the solo rogue game by my earlier 60's in order to determine how I was gonna play it (Fun and slow, Fun and semi-slow, semi-fun and fast, etc, etc) going forward. That was until I realised that Mutilate was a "Behind your target" attack (Dunno why I missed that ... I'm usually pretty pedantic about finding out about these things) ... that made my mind up ... I'm not even gonna try.
The (very) early dagger game (when you get gouge) ... which required a gouge, waltz-step, backstab ... ruined a rogue for me 3 times in a row before level 10. Then I asked here what the best way to push on was, and I was told, in no uncertain terms ... "Get a sword" ... which I did (after a level or 2) ... I never looked back. So to even consider a spec which would require me to go back to that style .... *cold shivers* .. no thanks. I rolled the rogue because it is THE Dual Wield melee character ... a typical Fantasy loner-fighter ... nothing better imo - and Combat swords fits that mold perfectly (My first attempt was a Warrior for that role, later speccing him Fury ... it worked to a degree, the Combat rogue is very similar ... only better ... in every single area)
I'm currently playing an ShS > Ambush > Hemo build (of my own design ;->, and yes, I switch to a sword after the initial Ambush ;->) .. .and it's fun, but when the Ambush doesn't crit ... or a Hemo misses (no 5 points in precision ftl), then I seriously think about switching back to Combat. I'll switch back anyway, sooner or later ... because it's the best way to play, it's the most fun (Obliterating a mob, guarenteed, in under 10 seconds, is such a rush).
As for Mutilate ... I'll stay faaaar away thanks for soloing (only problem I have now, is that I chose the dagger over a clear upgrade in a choice of TWO ranged weapons (one bow, one Thrown) ... serves me right for not being clearer on my intentions). Maybe I'll try a Mutilate / Sub build at 70 for some BG action ... dunno. Then again, ShS seems like it was made for PvP.
The (very) early dagger game (when you get gouge) ... which required a gouge, waltz-step, backstab ... ruined a rogue for me 3 times in a row before level 10. Then I asked here what the best way to push on was, and I was told, in no uncertain terms ... "Get a sword" ... which I did (after a level or 2) ... I never looked back. So to even consider a spec which would require me to go back to that style .... *cold shivers* .. no thanks. I rolled the rogue because it is THE Dual Wield melee character ... a typical Fantasy loner-fighter ... nothing better imo - and Combat swords fits that mold perfectly (My first attempt was a Warrior for that role, later speccing him Fury ... it worked to a degree, the Combat rogue is very similar ... only better ... in every single area)
I'm currently playing an ShS > Ambush > Hemo build (of my own design ;->, and yes, I switch to a sword after the initial Ambush ;->) .. .and it's fun, but when the Ambush doesn't crit ... or a Hemo misses (no 5 points in precision ftl), then I seriously think about switching back to Combat. I'll switch back anyway, sooner or later ... because it's the best way to play, it's the most fun (Obliterating a mob, guarenteed, in under 10 seconds, is such a rush).
As for Mutilate ... I'll stay faaaar away thanks for soloing (only problem I have now, is that I chose the dagger over a clear upgrade in a choice of TWO ranged weapons (one bow, one Thrown) ... serves me right for not being clearer on my intentions). Maybe I'll try a Mutilate / Sub build at 70 for some BG action ... dunno. Then again, ShS seems like it was made for PvP.
axhed wrote:
at 58 i tried it for a bit, couldn't get into it. i missed ar, riposte, and blade flurry. and when you're mutilate @ 58 with underleveled dagger skill, level 60 adds suck hard :)
rofl, I hear you mate ... Did the same at 58, speccing to ShS .. using Ambush as an opener ... I left the dagger equipped to try and get some dagger skill points. I died on my first fight, taking about 100 damage off the hellboar I was fighting ... It was soooo demoralising seeing miss, miss, miss, parry, parry, misss ...you get the picture.
Eventually, I hotkeyed my sword, so that if things got close, I would be able to equip it quickly - that at least allowed me to survive the encounters ;-)
Edited, Jul 3rd 2008 5:20am by robertlofthouse
The behind the target aspect of mutilate shouldn't even be a factor if you are talking about solo play and you keybind and mouse turn.
Distract > Cheap Shot > Mutilate > energy ticks > Kidney Shot > run through mob and turn > Mutilate x 2 > Eviscerate = Dead mob.
I ran Kara Saturday and Tuesday, both times as Mut, got Malc on Saturday and used it Tuesday. Saturday I was #3 against a Shammie and Mage, both of which out gear me severely, but it was a close run. Tuesday I was blown out of the water by a sword rogue who is BT/Hyj geared, but seeing the amount of damage he was cranking out I can see the benefit to the spec.
I have been die hard Mutilate ever since I hit 50, but am considering the switch on the next Kara run, just to see how it pans out. I plan on buying the Aldor sword and try and find another one, just not sure what a good begining offhand is.
Distract > Cheap Shot > Mutilate > energy ticks > Kidney Shot > run through mob and turn > Mutilate x 2 > Eviscerate = Dead mob.
I ran Kara Saturday and Tuesday, both times as Mut, got Malc on Saturday and used it Tuesday. Saturday I was #3 against a Shammie and Mage, both of which out gear me severely, but it was a close run. Tuesday I was blown out of the water by a sword rogue who is BT/Hyj geared, but seeing the amount of damage he was cranking out I can see the benefit to the spec.
I have been die hard Mutilate ever since I hit 50, but am considering the switch on the next Kara run, just to see how it pans out. I plan on buying the Aldor sword and try and find another one, just not sure what a good begining offhand is.
AtrophyGFour wrote:
Distract > Cheap Shot > Mutilate > energy ticks > Kidney Shot > run through mob and turn > Mutilate x 2 > Eviscerate = Dead mob.
As opposed to 5x SS > Evis = Dead mob .... and the whole "run through the mob and turn" thing, bugs the crap out of me; while you're doing that, you could be dealing damage using other abilities.
You could use a similar rotation with Subtlety .. Ambush > Hemo x2 > Kidney Shot > run through the mob and turn > backstab > Evis is mob not dead .. the problems remains .. lots of waiting for energy ... and lotsa running around into position
Basically you spend an awfully large amount of time running around getting into position with a dagger based attack build, whereas combat is simply and straightforward ... AND you can still be "roguish" and have fun as combat ... try overpulling, popping BF and AR, then blind the mob that BF isn't hitting as a secondary, and gouge another ... this means you can easily, using dirty roguish tricks, drop 4 mobs quite easily. Get it right, and it can be the most satisfying fight ..
Then again, each to their own I guess.
robertlofthouse wrote:
AtrophyGFour wrote:
Distract > Cheap Shot > Mutilate > energy ticks > Kidney Shot > run through mob and turn > Mutilate x 2 > Eviscerate = Dead mob.
As opposed to 5x SS > Evis = Dead mob .... and the whole "run through the mob and turn" thing, bugs the crap out of me; while you're doing that, you could be dealing damage using other abilities.
You could use a similar rotation with Subtlety .. Ambush > Hemo x2 > Kidney Shot > run through the mob and turn > backstab > Evis is mob not dead .. the problems remains .. lots of waiting for energy ... and lotsa running around into position
Basically you spend an awfully large amount of time running around getting into position with a dagger based attack build, whereas combat is simply and straightforward ... AND you can still be "roguish" and have fun as combat ... try overpulling, popping BF and AR, then blind the mob that BF isn't hitting as a secondary, and gouge another ... this means you can easily, using dirty roguish tricks, drop 4 mobs quite easily. Get it right, and it can be the most satisfying fight ..
Then again, each to their own I guess.
If it takes you more than 1 second to stun and get behind a mob, you suck. It shouldn't even take that long. Run straight through them, turn instantly with the mouse, bingo. You don't even have to stop attacking. With mutilate, I go cheap shot > mutilate (now I'm at 4 or 5 CP), kidney shot, mutilate, maybe mutilate again or evis, they're dead. I keep SnD up by using it at the end of one mob so it's up for the next one or two.
Of course, now I'm combat swords for Kara, but I found mutilate to be a very effective grinding build in its own right.
Well, the dancing around the mob is what I like about the Mutilate build. It is a lot more fun to me than keybinding SS to every letter and Eviscerate to space bar and just rolling my face across the keyboard. But I agree that it is lower damage than swords, which is why I am going to try it out, maybe this weekend if we finish up Kara.
bismarckmajivo wrote:
robertlofthouse wrote:
AtrophyGFour wrote:
Distract > Cheap Shot > Mutilate > energy ticks > Kidney Shot > run through mob and turn > Mutilate x 2 > Eviscerate = Dead mob.
As opposed to 5x SS > Evis = Dead mob .... and the whole "run through the mob and turn" thing, bugs the crap out of me; while you're doing that, you could be dealing damage using other abilities.
You could use a similar rotation with Subtlety .. Ambush > Hemo x2 > Kidney Shot > run through the mob and turn > backstab > Evis is mob not dead .. the problems remains .. lots of waiting for energy ... and lotsa running around into position
Basically you spend an awfully large amount of time running around getting into position with a dagger based attack build, whereas combat is simply and straightforward ... AND you can still be "roguish" and have fun as combat ... try overpulling, popping BF and AR, then blind the mob that BF isn't hitting as a secondary, and gouge another ... this means you can easily, using dirty roguish tricks, drop 4 mobs quite easily. Get it right, and it can be the most satisfying fight ..
Then again, each to their own I guess.
If it takes you more than 1 second to stun and get behind a mob, you suck. It shouldn't even take that long. Run straight through them, turn instantly with the mouse, bingo. You don't even have to stop attacking. With mutilate, I go cheap shot > mutilate (now I'm at 4 or 5 CP), kidney shot, mutilate, maybe mutilate again or evis, they're dead. I keep SnD up by using it at the end of one mob so it's up for the next one or two.
Of course, now I'm combat swords for Kara, but I found mutilate to be a very effective grinding build in its own right.
Charming (the "You suck" comment) ... I thought the conversation was quite civil until that point..
Anyhow, I said nothing about it taking too long, I said it was a pain in the butt, and it bugs me. It's simple enough to do, sure, but it wastes time (yes, 1 second IS time that passes .. and with a 600 ms ping, it's effectively even longer), and the damage benefit it nothing like what you can do with other builds that are just as "FUN".
That all being said, one thing I never considered was using it as an opener . hmmmm, perhaps I can explore this road anyway ...
Quote:
There is absolutely ZERO reason to be daggers at any point in this game.
Oh yes there is, daggers are here for people who actually want to play a rogue, not a ninja wannabe-warrior.
Backstab all the way!
I used to love mutilate, but then I realized shadowstep swords was about a million times more fun.
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
There is absolutely ZERO reason to be daggers at any point in this game.
Oh yes there is, daggers are here for people who actually want to play a rogue, not a ninja wannabe-warrior.
Backstab all the way!
rofl .. amazing how it is when someone mentions liking being a Fury Warrior, they are flamed as being Rogue Wannabes... but when somebody says anything about playing a Combat Rogue, they are Warrior Wannabes :-D
I'm saying neither of those. I just find playing combat close to playing a gimped form of a warrior in which you only use out of stealth melee abilities. Generally it's freaking boring as well.
robertlofthouse wrote:
bismarckmajivo wrote:
If it takes you more than 1 second to stun and get behind a mob, you suck. It shouldn't even take that long. Run straight through them, turn instantly with the mouse, bingo. You don't even have to stop attacking. With mutilate, I go cheap shot > mutilate (now I'm at 4 or 5 CP), kidney shot, mutilate, maybe mutilate again or evis, they're dead. I keep SnD up by using it at the end of one mob so it's up for the next one or two.
Of course, now I'm combat swords for Kara, but I found mutilate to be a very effective grinding build in its own right.
Of course, now I'm combat swords for Kara, but I found mutilate to be a very effective grinding build in its own right.
Charming (the "You suck" comment) ... I thought the conversation was quite civil until that point..
Anyhow, I said nothing about it taking too long, I said it was a pain in the butt, and it bugs me. It's simple enough to do, sure, but it wastes time (yes, 1 second IS time that passes .. and with a 600 ms ping, it's effectively even longer), and the damage benefit it nothing like what you can do with other builds that are just as "FUN".
That all being said, one thing I never considered was using it as an opener . hmmmm, perhaps I can explore this road anyway ...
Why do people always have to take everything personally? It wasn't a shot at you, it was basically stating that, if it takes you that long (also not aimed at you) then frankly you probably do suck.
As it is, it might be a pain for you, sure. But that's no reason to discourage other people from playing it, so long as they realize they're probably losing some dps in the bargain and everyone involved is okay with that. And if you have a 600ms ping, you're already in suboptimal conditions for dpsing, and I'm willing to bet your build will play less of a role in any fight where your on-target uptime is less than 100% than your latency. (Granted, a 600ms Combat Swords is probably still better than a 600ms Mutilate, but they're both probably worse than a 200ms Mutilate.)
Mutilate as an opener is generally a poor choice, unless you meant following Cheap Shot with it. After Cheap Shot, I stab away until either a poison procs or the stun is about to wear off, to increase my odds of the 50% damage boost.
In the end, you can't tell other people what's "FUN" for them. One person hates playing Rogue at all, another loves Mutilate and can't stand combat swords. As long as everybody involved understands and accepts the drawbacks of this, why not play how you want? It's a fantasy game, it's not Number Cruncher.
26 posts
Why do people always have to take everything personally? It wasn't a shot at you, it was basically stating that, if it takes you that long (also not aimed at you) then frankly you probably do suck.
As it is, it might be a pain for you, sure. But that's no reason to discourage other people from playing it, so long as they realize they're probably losing some dps in the bargain and everyone involved is okay with that. And if you have a 600ms ping, you're already in suboptimal conditions for dpsing, and I'm willing to bet your build will play less of a role in any fight where your on-target uptime is less than 100% than your latency. (Granted, a 600ms Combat Swords is probably still better than a 600ms Mutilate, but they're both probably worse than a 200ms Mutilate.)
Mutilate as an opener is generally a poor choice, unless you meant following Cheap Shot with it. After Cheap Shot, I stab away until either a poison procs or the stun is about to wear off, to increase my odds of the 50% damage boost.
In the end, you can't tell other people what's "FUN" for them. One person hates playing Rogue at all, another loves Mutilate and can't stand combat swords. As long as everybody involved understands and accepts the drawbacks of this, why not play how you want? It's a fantasy game, it's not Number Cruncher. [/quote]
/cheer
As it is, it might be a pain for you, sure. But that's no reason to discourage other people from playing it, so long as they realize they're probably losing some dps in the bargain and everyone involved is okay with that. And if you have a 600ms ping, you're already in suboptimal conditions for dpsing, and I'm willing to bet your build will play less of a role in any fight where your on-target uptime is less than 100% than your latency. (Granted, a 600ms Combat Swords is probably still better than a 600ms Mutilate, but they're both probably worse than a 200ms Mutilate.)
Mutilate as an opener is generally a poor choice, unless you meant following Cheap Shot with it. After Cheap Shot, I stab away until either a poison procs or the stun is about to wear off, to increase my odds of the 50% damage boost.
In the end, you can't tell other people what's "FUN" for them. One person hates playing Rogue at all, another loves Mutilate and can't stand combat swords. As long as everybody involved understands and accepts the drawbacks of this, why not play how you want? It's a fantasy game, it's not Number Cruncher. [/quote]
/cheer
There is always going to be the Fun vs. Efficient argument. After respeccing countless times for PvE and PvP, personally, I would rather play muti...IF it put up the same damage as combat swords. Because let's face it, show me one person here that doesn't want to top the meters. Especially if it's progression bosses, I would feel like I'm gimping the raid.
Although, with that being said, I personally do believe that there is a place for _1_ muti rogue in a 25-man raid. There are encounters where the muti rogue out-dps' me as combat swords(read: Kaz'rogal and Supremus), but it's not by a huge margin, and vice-versa. Seriously, if he can put up 1300 dps w/ 1 pc of t6, I'm not going to **** with him until there is a dps-intensive encounter in which we are not making the timer.
Although, with that being said, I personally do believe that there is a place for _1_ muti rogue in a 25-man raid. There are encounters where the muti rogue out-dps' me as combat swords(read: Kaz'rogal and Supremus), but it's not by a huge margin, and vice-versa. Seriously, if he can put up 1300 dps w/ 1 pc of t6, I'm not going to **** with him until there is a dps-intensive encounter in which we are not making the timer.
Mozared wrote:
I'm saying neither of those. I just find playing combat close to playing a gimped form of a warrior in which you only use out of stealth melee abilities. Generally it's freaking boring as well.
So what do you use as Mut?
Out of stealth melee abilities?
Get the **** off the forums. You're a moron.
If I would've been specced mut I would've used mut.
Keep trying, you seem like the type of know-it-all I hate.
Keep trying, you seem like the type of know-it-all I hate.
Mozared wrote:
If I would've been specced mut I would've used mut.
Keep trying, you seem like the type of know-it-all I hate.
Keep trying, you seem like the type of know-it-all I hate.
You hate because you're bad.
I hate you because you're bad.
Seems like a never-ending cycle, huh?
How cruel of you to judge someone you don't know.
Quote:
Mutilate as an opener is generally a poor choice, unless you meant following Cheap Shot with it. After Cheap Shot, I stab away until either a poison procs or the stun is about to wear off, to increase my odds of the 50% damage boost.
OH God..
Quote:
You hate because you're bad.
I hate you because you're bad.
I hate you because you're bad.
Seems like the yin and yang of flame-posts. This actually made me chuckle, thanks Theo!
Speedburst wrote:
Quote:
Mutilate as an opener is generally a poor choice, unless you meant following Cheap Shot with it. After Cheap Shot, I stab away until either a poison procs or the stun is about to wear off, to increase my odds of the 50% damage boost.
OH God..
You have some better idea? Or you just prefer to sound like you have a clue?
bismarckmajivo wrote:
Speedburst wrote:
Quote:
Mutilate as an opener is generally a poor choice, unless you meant following Cheap Shot with it. After Cheap Shot, I stab away until either a poison procs or the stun is about to wear off, to increase my odds of the 50% damage boost.
OH God..
You have some better idea? Or you just prefer to sound like you have a clue?
He likes to sound like a hockey helmet-wearing window-licker, forgive him.
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