EDIT - 1/1/09
Here is the updated Healadin Guide for WotLK.
Pre-Naxx Holy Paladin Guide
Edited, Jan 1st 2009 11:48pm by YJMark
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{Stamp} of approval.
You've put a lot of work into updating the guide and you've done a pretty good job. All of that raw scathing Dil persona is maintained, with his great info... only now it's in a format that makes me want to read it instead of imagining Indiana Jones trying to scale over a wall made of text.
I like your additions as far as Crit info goes.. it seems to jive with other research on the matter for the most part. A small Haste section was also a good idea I think, Haste seems to be able to pump out some serious healing numbers (my healing Paladin is in Tier 5 so I couldn't really say from experience, but the Paladins I tank with in SPLAT are pushing much bigger numbers as they've started to convert to Haste). More importantly than telling people that though is that you advise to stay away from it. Sure, it's great when you can reach and maintain the nice +heal/mp5/crit numbers you need, but it just takes away from those when you're still trying to get there.
I would have agreed for the most part with the Jewelcrafting comment in Dil's guide, but being updated for 2.4 I have to mention that the Seaspray Albatross is not a figurine that a fresh raider getting their feet wet in Kara will be looking to replace soon. My healing Paladin is actually running with the Albatross and the Vial of the Sunwell, both mana regen trinkets. Speaking of the Vial, I'd include it with the trinkets not only for its mana regen, but because it's basically an extra healing spell.
I see lots of new Healers running around with the shield off of the Black Stalker in heroic UB, but I agree with your suggestions in terms of the Crystal Pulse. It's just so easy to get, there's really no need for any other mediocre healing shield.
All things considered, it's some pretty good information for a healer that's trying to gear up for Kara. I know much of it came from Dil, but your updates for the patch and additions only make it stronger I think. Thanks.
You've put a lot of work into updating the guide and you've done a pretty good job. All of that raw scathing Dil persona is maintained, with his great info... only now it's in a format that makes me want to read it instead of imagining Indiana Jones trying to scale over a wall made of text.
I like your additions as far as Crit info goes.. it seems to jive with other research on the matter for the most part. A small Haste section was also a good idea I think, Haste seems to be able to pump out some serious healing numbers (my healing Paladin is in Tier 5 so I couldn't really say from experience, but the Paladins I tank with in SPLAT are pushing much bigger numbers as they've started to convert to Haste). More importantly than telling people that though is that you advise to stay away from it. Sure, it's great when you can reach and maintain the nice +heal/mp5/crit numbers you need, but it just takes away from those when you're still trying to get there.
I would have agreed for the most part with the Jewelcrafting comment in Dil's guide, but being updated for 2.4 I have to mention that the Seaspray Albatross is not a figurine that a fresh raider getting their feet wet in Kara will be looking to replace soon. My healing Paladin is actually running with the Albatross and the Vial of the Sunwell, both mana regen trinkets. Speaking of the Vial, I'd include it with the trinkets not only for its mana regen, but because it's basically an extra healing spell.
I see lots of new Healers running around with the shield off of the Black Stalker in heroic UB, but I agree with your suggestions in terms of the Crystal Pulse. It's just so easy to get, there's really no need for any other mediocre healing shield.
All things considered, it's some pretty good information for a healer that's trying to gear up for Kara. I know much of it came from Dil, but your updates for the patch and additions only make it stronger I think. Thanks.
Thaks for the Feedback Losie. I put the figurine and MgT trinket you mentioned. Both great additions that I missed.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
You did a very nice job with it. I went to take a look at it, but wound up reading it from start to finish. You made it flow nicely.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Nice work, YJMark. If I can add my two cents, here are some ideas for group discussion:
1. Haste. Are there many people that attempt to stack haste pre-Kara? IIRC, 16 spell haste rating will result in a 1% reduction in your casting time. On a 1.5 sec heal, that's a savings of 15 milliseconds. More simply, 1% spell haste will let you cast 101 Flash of Light in the amount of time it would normally have taken you to cast 100. Spell haste has more value for casters whose spells take more than 2 seconds to cast but seems a very poor choice for holy pallies. Even on the longest boss fights in Kara, those savings would appear to be imperceptible. If I had to do a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, though, I'd ballpark the itemization of 1% spell haste to be a little shy of 7 mp5, which is a good chunk of the 70 mp5 target for starting Kara. I would personally attempt to steer pre-Kara paladins in my guild away from actively seeking out spell haste.
2. Elixirs. I would nominate Adept's Elixir as another useful Battle Elixir when you can't get your hands on Healing Power. Even when Healing Power is available, I prefer Adept's when running lower Kara.
3. Potions. As I've mentioned on the Tradeskills forum previously, a Super Rejuvenation Potion is nice to use when your primary goal is to regain health instantly (e.g., if you've already used your healthstone). The extra mana is gravy.
4. Notes/Tips. The bullet point on "mobility" could use a helpful link to this wiki entry.
5. Gear. FYI, the Guardian's Ornamented Set, as well as the Guardian's Pendant/Band of Salvation have gone live. It would be helpful to insert them into their respective slots on the gear table. Unfortunately, the personal rating requirements will keep some/many new raiders from obtaining the entire set so the Vindicator's line may continue to be pertinent.
Again, great show of initiative. Thank you for all your effort thus far!
1. Haste. Are there many people that attempt to stack haste pre-Kara? IIRC, 16 spell haste rating will result in a 1% reduction in your casting time. On a 1.5 sec heal, that's a savings of 15 milliseconds. More simply, 1% spell haste will let you cast 101 Flash of Light in the amount of time it would normally have taken you to cast 100. Spell haste has more value for casters whose spells take more than 2 seconds to cast but seems a very poor choice for holy pallies. Even on the longest boss fights in Kara, those savings would appear to be imperceptible. If I had to do a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, though, I'd ballpark the itemization of 1% spell haste to be a little shy of 7 mp5, which is a good chunk of the 70 mp5 target for starting Kara. I would personally attempt to steer pre-Kara paladins in my guild away from actively seeking out spell haste.
2. Elixirs. I would nominate Adept's Elixir as another useful Battle Elixir when you can't get your hands on Healing Power. Even when Healing Power is available, I prefer Adept's when running lower Kara.
3. Potions. As I've mentioned on the Tradeskills forum previously, a Super Rejuvenation Potion is nice to use when your primary goal is to regain health instantly (e.g., if you've already used your healthstone). The extra mana is gravy.
4. Notes/Tips. The bullet point on "mobility" could use a helpful link to this wiki entry.
5. Gear. FYI, the Guardian's Ornamented Set, as well as the Guardian's Pendant/Band of Salvation have gone live. It would be helpful to insert them into their respective slots on the gear table. Unfortunately, the personal rating requirements will keep some/many new raiders from obtaining the entire set so the Vindicator's line may continue to be pertinent.
Again, great show of initiative. Thank you for all your effort thus far!
Thanks HoyadinFTW. I've put your comments into the guide. Those are definitely things that I missed.
As far as the haste thing goes - I just changed the first sentence to try and clarify that it is more used during later raids (i.e. not Kara). Let me know if you think I should stress that a bit more, or if it is sufficent.
Thanks.
As far as the haste thing goes - I just changed the first sentence to try and clarify that it is more used during later raids (i.e. not Kara). Let me know if you think I should stress that a bit more, or if it is sufficent.
Thanks.
Well, if there is no more input into this, would anyone be opposed to officially making this an update for Dil's sticky?
Well you put it in the Wiki, which I'm fine with, but I'm not sure how we would work that with the sticky, unless the sticky is just deleted with a link that says "Click Here to go to the Wiki for the Updated Pre-Kara Holy Guide" in which case you'd have to ask Dil to do that.
I did talk to Dil, and he's cool with this guide updating/replacing his. I was really just thinking to have this thread become the new sticky, and remove his sticky. Would that work?
Well, I can take it to the admins and see if they like it if you want.
Alright I sent a request in so that the Admins can look at it and decide in their infinite wisdom what to do. You can go to the Site Feedback forum and offer support for the change if you'd like, it usually helps if you do.
Well, I took a look at the changes to the wiki and this thread. I'll sticky this one tonight.
Cool, you the man Wordaen
Thanks Cap and Wordaen.
Oops! I knew I forgot something :) It's stickied now.
Nice guide... I've definately been using this as I approach 70.
One note I had (which you can choose to ignore entirely):
Badge Gear...
Great, incredibly useful stuff. Obviously its all available before you step into Kara, and by and large better than anything you'll get out of most normal or heroic instances. But... realisticly most folks wont start raiding Kara with more than maybe 2-3 pieces of badge gear (or... to put it another way, by the time they have more than a half dozen or so badge items, theyre probably a bit overgeared for Kara).
What'd be nice to see is a rough order of priority for badge gear. Something like the Prot Warrior listing over at tankingtips.com (http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/04/09/the-badge-pick-order-24-edition/). Its not perfect, but it gives an at-a-glimpse indication of which items are most useful relative to other T4-and-below items available in that slot, and thus which give the best return on your badge investment (especially important before youre pulling 5-7 badges/hour out of Kara once a week).
Just a thought. :)
Thanks again for the great guide.
One note I had (which you can choose to ignore entirely):
Badge Gear...
Great, incredibly useful stuff. Obviously its all available before you step into Kara, and by and large better than anything you'll get out of most normal or heroic instances. But... realisticly most folks wont start raiding Kara with more than maybe 2-3 pieces of badge gear (or... to put it another way, by the time they have more than a half dozen or so badge items, theyre probably a bit overgeared for Kara).
What'd be nice to see is a rough order of priority for badge gear. Something like the Prot Warrior listing over at tankingtips.com (http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/04/09/the-badge-pick-order-24-edition/). Its not perfect, but it gives an at-a-glimpse indication of which items are most useful relative to other T4-and-below items available in that slot, and thus which give the best return on your badge investment (especially important before youre pulling 5-7 badges/hour out of Kara once a week).
Just a thought. :)
Thanks again for the great guide.
soobooboo wrote:
But... realisticly most folks wont start raiding Kara with more than maybe 2-3 pieces of badge gear (or... to put it another way, by the time they have more than a half dozen or so badge items, theyre probably a bit overgeared for Kara).
You are correct. The intent was to just list what was available, and let people pick and choose what badge gear best suits their needs.
soobooboo wrote:
What'd be nice to see is a rough order of priority for badge gear. Something like the Prot Warrior listing over at tankingtips.com (http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/04/09...24-edition/). Its not perfect, but it gives an at-a-glimpse indication of which items are most useful relative to other T4-and-below items available in that slot, and thus which give the best return on your badge investment (especially important before youre pulling 5-7 badges/hour out of Kara once a week).
This is a great idea. I had a really hard time deciding when I got my first piece of badge gear. However, it will also be somewhat dependent on what gear you currently have. Let me think a bit about this, and I'll throw together a proposal. Thanks for the feedback.
Sorry... that link above seems to be broken.
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/04/09/the-badge-pick-order-24-edition/
If this one doesnt work, you can go to tankingtips.com and look up badge pick order to find it and see what I meant.
Very true... and not just on what you have in a given slot, but also the balance of stats you have overall (at Kara-tier without the manpower to run 25 man raids, my warrior's fury kit knows this all too well). It can be very subjective.
What I try to do with my warrior's gear is identify items that I wont be upgrading for a looong time, and probably wont see a serviceable (if somewhat less powerful) item drop in the next few weeks. If I bought the Prot Warrior itemized gloves and Maiden dropped hers the next night... I definately could've spent those 60 badges more effectively.
Applying that thinking to what little I know about Holy Pally gear...
Pre Kara (without badge gear) the best healing plate belt you're likley to have is, from what I can see (excuse my ignorance) is the Girdle of Many Blessings from H SP. The next upgrade (unless youre willing to go with Cloth/Leather/Mail... which I can never bring myself to do) drops off of Netherspite (same iLevel... so its kindof an incrimental upgrade). After that, youre looking at T5 level drops from The Eye or deep ZA.
What that says to me is there's a void in terms of T4 caliber plate healing belts. 75 Badges for Waistguard of Reparation (T5-6) seems like a sound early buy and would probably go high on my list.
Edited, Jul 7th 2008 6:27pm by soobooboo
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/04/09/the-badge-pick-order-24-edition/
If this one doesnt work, you can go to tankingtips.com and look up badge pick order to find it and see what I meant.
Quote:
However, it will also be somewhat dependent on what gear you currently have.
Very true... and not just on what you have in a given slot, but also the balance of stats you have overall (at Kara-tier without the manpower to run 25 man raids, my warrior's fury kit knows this all too well). It can be very subjective.
What I try to do with my warrior's gear is identify items that I wont be upgrading for a looong time, and probably wont see a serviceable (if somewhat less powerful) item drop in the next few weeks. If I bought the Prot Warrior itemized gloves and Maiden dropped hers the next night... I definately could've spent those 60 badges more effectively.
Applying that thinking to what little I know about Holy Pally gear...
Pre Kara (without badge gear) the best healing plate belt you're likley to have is, from what I can see (excuse my ignorance) is the Girdle of Many Blessings from H SP. The next upgrade (unless youre willing to go with Cloth/Leather/Mail... which I can never bring myself to do) drops off of Netherspite (same iLevel... so its kindof an incrimental upgrade). After that, youre looking at T5 level drops from The Eye or deep ZA.
What that says to me is there's a void in terms of T4 caliber plate healing belts. 75 Badges for Waistguard of Reparation (T5-6) seems like a sound early buy and would probably go high on my list.
Edited, Jul 7th 2008 6:27pm by soobooboo
OK, I tried to figure out how to do this, but could not come up with any kind of real good strategy. Most badge gear listed will be a very minor upgrade from Kara drops.
The biggest ones that come to mind are (in order):
1) Vambraces of the Naaru - since there are no/none/zip good healing wrists that drop in Kara or pre-Kara (other than PvP)
2) Waistguard of Reparation - good until T5 instances (probably largest upgrade from decent Kara drop)
3) Greaves of Pacification - good until T5 (another good upgrade from T4)
4) Essence of the Martyr - Should never be replaced :)
5) Implacable Guardian Sabatons - good until T5
6) Anveena's Touch - good until T5
Does that make any sense? Please, feel free to comment.
The biggest ones that come to mind are (in order):
1) Vambraces of the Naaru - since there are no/none/zip good healing wrists that drop in Kara or pre-Kara (other than PvP)
2) Waistguard of Reparation - good until T5 instances (probably largest upgrade from decent Kara drop)
3) Greaves of Pacification - good until T5 (another good upgrade from T4)
4) Essence of the Martyr - Should never be replaced :)
5) Implacable Guardian Sabatons - good until T5
6) Anveena's Touch - good until T5
Does that make any sense? Please, feel free to comment.
The Prot Warrior Wrist/Waist/Leg armor rates pretty high too... I'm noticing an emerging pattern.
Just glancing over your list there, I dont see anything that seems out of step. Most Geras sold badge gear would (as a general rule) be replaced somewhere in T5. The 2.4 badge gear will last a bit longer.
The only thing I noticed was a couple of items missing... Ecclesiastical Cuirass, Light-Bearer's Shield, Gavel of Naaru Blessings. I'm thinking of saving for the Gavel first... Its got ~50% more +Heal than anything pre Kara, and ~25% more than either of the healing maces from Kara itself (dont see comparable from Gruuls or Magtheridon). Plus... I'd rather get the big purchase out of the way ASAP.
Just glancing over your list there, I dont see anything that seems out of step. Most Geras sold badge gear would (as a general rule) be replaced somewhere in T5. The 2.4 badge gear will last a bit longer.
The only thing I noticed was a couple of items missing... Ecclesiastical Cuirass, Light-Bearer's Shield, Gavel of Naaru Blessings. I'm thinking of saving for the Gavel first... Its got ~50% more +Heal than anything pre Kara, and ~25% more than either of the healing maces from Kara itself (dont see comparable from Gruuls or Magtheridon). Plus... I'd rather get the big purchase out of the way ASAP.
Chest - I think the T4 chest is pretty comparable. If you are short on crit, then the badge chest is good. However, if you are in Kara gear, you shouldn't be short on crit, and the T4 chest would give you more benefit.
Shield - I think the chess drop in Kara is better than the badge shield.
For the mace - yup - I forgot that one. It is awesome. Will easily last you into T5.
All that being said, I'm not sure if this discussion is really part of the sticky. The sticky is more of a pre-Kara gear. This discussion is more of a pre-T5 gear. Maybe I can change the subject of this thread to Holy Paladin Guide, and just link in the pre-Kara one? hmmmmmm
Edited, Jul 9th 2008 3:06pm by YJMark
Shield - I think the chess drop in Kara is better than the badge shield.
For the mace - yup - I forgot that one. It is awesome. Will easily last you into T5.
All that being said, I'm not sure if this discussion is really part of the sticky. The sticky is more of a pre-Kara gear. This discussion is more of a pre-T5 gear. Maybe I can change the subject of this thread to Holy Paladin Guide, and just link in the pre-Kara one? hmmmmmm
Edited, Jul 9th 2008 3:06pm by YJMark
Quote:
The sticky is more of a pre-Kara gear. This discussion is more of a pre-T5 gear.
We may have gotten off on a slight tangent, but I see it as both. Its 'pre-kara' gear that will generally last you through Kara, Gruuls, Magtheridon and into the middle endgame.
The purpose of a priority list (IMO) is so that those who are getting set up for entry level raids can get an idea how to most effectively invest any badges theyve collected along the way. (Should I buy my Vambraces as soon as I have 35 badges? Or save a half dozen more for the trinket? That kind of thing.)
Suffice it to say, I dont plan on waiting to run my Pally through Kara until I've farmed 150 badges from Heroics to buy my mace. My main slogged through a lot of that legwork with my guild so that this toon wont have to. :) But for someone working on gearing their first toon to Kara readiness (as I experienced on my Warrior), this info is invaluable.
Again, this all depends on what your current gear looks like.
If you are short on MP5 or crit, but have enough +heal, I would hold off on the mace. It only gives you +heal (granted it's a LOT of +heal, but that doesn't help as much in longer fights).
However, if you are at 20% crit, and 80-90 MP5, then go for the mace.
That would be my recommendation. Cranking your +heal and sacrificing your crit and MP5 is a mistake many new Holy Paladins make. They only want to stack large +heal bonuses (the same paladins that only put +heal gems in sockets). Then, they go oom half way through a boss encounter. Good for heroics, but bad for raids.
If you are short on MP5 or crit, but have enough +heal, I would hold off on the mace. It only gives you +heal (granted it's a LOT of +heal, but that doesn't help as much in longer fights).
However, if you are at 20% crit, and 80-90 MP5, then go for the mace.
That would be my recommendation. Cranking your +heal and sacrificing your crit and MP5 is a mistake many new Holy Paladins make. They only want to stack large +heal bonuses (the same paladins that only put +heal gems in sockets). Then, they go oom half way through a boss encounter. Good for heroics, but bad for raids.
I don't know if it has been mentioned yet but one item for the financially, hmm... how to word it, well. cheap... a nice free shield (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) would be 20 EoTs and 15k Honor relatively quick and easy if you start working on your pvp farming when you are bored like I've been doing lately.
Edited for typos and general silly link mistakes
Edited, Aug 12th 2008 7:51pm by Xantilo
Edited for typos and general silly link mistakes
Edited, Aug 12th 2008 7:51pm by Xantilo
Xantilo wrote:
I don't know if it has been mentioned yet but one item for the financially, hmm... how to word it, well. cheap... a nice free shield (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) would be 20 EoTs and 15k Honor relatively quick and easy if you start working on your pvp farming when you are bored like I've been doing lately.
Nice one. I added it in. Thanks for finding it :)
1 post
What's everyones thoughts on the + healing to start Kara now that the changes to 3.0 patch has been made. Do you really need +1100 to start now? If you think about it, it may be hard to get. You use to be able to add +81 healing to weapon in one enchant and know that is +40 spellpower.
Besides this I think it would be very helpful to add a coulpe sample builds to this sticky so you wouldn't have to search a bunch of other threads to find them. A raid, PVE, PVP build all would be good.
Great thread otherwise.
Besides this I think it would be very helpful to add a coulpe sample builds to this sticky so you wouldn't have to search a bunch of other threads to find them. A raid, PVE, PVP build all would be good.
Great thread otherwise.
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