So, we all know that WoW has a Rocks-Paper-Scissors kind of setup as far as how classes compare to eachother. My current main is a Mage, and I have never had a Hunter above level 18 (my next project).
However, I have fault them many times and the only ones I win against are the ones so bad that they make me cry.
So, I got to thinking. What class has an advantage over them? All casters are slowed due to their pet (which also eats up a CC, depending on how strong it is). Their Traps and Shots (and Boar Stuns) keep me where THEY want me (mostly).
Maybe a Warrior? But a Warrior will have trouble closing the gap between them, and cannot heal himself. He also has no choice but to kill the pet or allow it to hit him.
Maybe a Paladin? Better, due to the ability to heal and bubble. But, he also suffers from the inability to close the gap and has fewer ranged options than a Warrior. He'd last longer, but would still have some trouble actually winning against a good Hunter.
Maybe a Rogue? Okay, if he gets the jump and stunlocks the (non-BM) Hunter to death before the pet kills him or stuns him.
Warlock? Succy on Hunter with Seduce, kill the pet, Fear-DoT the Hunter? Makes sense to me (as long as the Hunter isn't BM). But Warlocks kill almost everything as well.
Priest? I don't really know much about Priests, but I would imagine a Mana Burn while your pet assaults them would work nicely.
Druid? CC for Pet, but I find it hard to believe that a Boomkin could kill a Hunter that is Mana-Burning it before the Hunter kills it. No Mana for the heals.
Shaman? Only ranged attack long enough couldn't beat the Hunter for DpS. Small, easily-burned Mana pool, only weak CC for pet.
Mage (and I just suck?) Poly the pet and try to take out the Hunter, but he Conc. me and attacks faster, making it hard for me to use anything but instants (which have Cooldowns, and may require smaller ranges.) FN doesn't last long enough to detain the pet. I can CC the hunter and try and take out the pet, but if the Hunter trinkets out before I notice I'm done.
What class gives you trouble? I am really having trouble penetrating this beast of a class. O/_\O
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Really depends on the circumstances (ie, who gets the opener, whose cooldowns are up, etc). Generally speaking, hunters who get slowed down (particularly against the melee classes via crip poison, intercept, hamstring, etc) tend to have problems recovering. While it's not impossible to recover, it's much harder to get a kite going once a slow effect is on you. On the other hand, as you already noted, the cloth classes aren't ever much of a problem as both our pets and our dps act as a cast interrupt.
Edited, Jun 21st 2008 1:11am by Eliff
Edited, Jun 21st 2008 1:11am by Eliff
Take this with a grain of salt as I readily admit I'm not great at pvp, nor have I ever spec'd Marks for it (just go in either BM or Surv, whatever I'm feeling that week), but if a warrior or rogue hits me once as survival (or when BW is on CD) I'm dead. I might as well get up from my computer because thats about how effective I'll be. Charge/intercept or stealth plus spamstring or crip poison and I'm not kiting anybody.
I'll readily admit that I have little to no fear of just about anybody with a mana bar except shammys, resto druids, or other hunters. A better (than me) mage can kill me by staying in my face and tossing instants like there's no tomorrow, but most of the time they don't seem to think of it. It's funny how everybody QQ's about warlocks (though they do shut mages down pretty hard). I don't think I've lost to one that had even remotely the same gear level as me when I saw him first or at the same time.
Like I said though, I rarely arena (and our team is very lowly rated), and only occasionally duel and BG.
I'll readily admit that I have little to no fear of just about anybody with a mana bar except shammys, resto druids, or other hunters. A better (than me) mage can kill me by staying in my face and tossing instants like there's no tomorrow, but most of the time they don't seem to think of it. It's funny how everybody QQ's about warlocks (though they do shut mages down pretty hard). I don't think I've lost to one that had even remotely the same gear level as me when I saw him first or at the same time.
Like I said though, I rarely arena (and our team is very lowly rated), and only occasionally duel and BG.
I also do not PvP THAT much, although i try to spend at least one run a day in those things. It's a fun break from the never ending grind...although I guess PvP is a grind to, but that's beside the point.
Anyway, the ones that I have the most problems with would be the following. Also, I run as BM spec only (never even tried the others)
Warriors IF they get the jump on me. They can charge when out of combat which means I can say byebye to my range. If I can ice trap them great, but if they can trinket out of it that's about all she wrote. Wingclip won't get you out of range when your slowed.
Paladin's don't actually cause me much trouble as far as them killing me, but I hate trying to kill them. Oh god to I hate trying to kill them. I normally walk away, I get bored...
Rogue, if they get the jump on me and stunlock me. But then again, who doesn't have that problem?
Warlock if BW is down.
Resto druids are a MASSIVE pain in the ***** I don't even know how to describe the frustration I go through trying to bring them down without getting myself killed. I just hate them...plain and simple.
That would be my list of hated enemies.
Anyway, the ones that I have the most problems with would be the following. Also, I run as BM spec only (never even tried the others)
Warriors IF they get the jump on me. They can charge when out of combat which means I can say byebye to my range. If I can ice trap them great, but if they can trinket out of it that's about all she wrote. Wingclip won't get you out of range when your slowed.
Paladin's don't actually cause me much trouble as far as them killing me, but I hate trying to kill them. Oh god to I hate trying to kill them. I normally walk away, I get bored...
Rogue, if they get the jump on me and stunlock me. But then again, who doesn't have that problem?
Warlock if BW is down.
Resto druids are a MASSIVE pain in the ***** I don't even know how to describe the frustration I go through trying to bring them down without getting myself killed. I just hate them...plain and simple.
That would be my list of hated enemies.
Hunters are the least represented of all classes in all Arena brackets for a reason.
We can usually kill most classes IF we get the drop on them, and our cooldowns are up. Beyond that, you better hope that the person you're up against just sucks.
We can usually kill most classes IF we get the drop on them, and our cooldowns are up. Beyond that, you better hope that the person you're up against just sucks.
A good priest will kill you, because they'll mana burn you like there's no tomorow and you'll be stuck without mana (and thus pretty much without dps) in no time.
Good warriors will also kill you 1 on 1, however if you get support from a druid (say in arena war/druid vs hunter druid) the warrior becomes cake because he'll be CC'd the whole time.
Good rogues will also kill you, they have a few too many tricks to close the gap to you and crippling poison is hell.
Though a BM hunter tears rogues apart with BW + frost trap kiting.
Rogue + Priest is pretty much the most painful thing you can find as a hunter in 2v2.
Good warriors will also kill you 1 on 1, however if you get support from a druid (say in arena war/druid vs hunter druid) the warrior becomes cake because he'll be CC'd the whole time.
Good rogues will also kill you, they have a few too many tricks to close the gap to you and crippling poison is hell.
Though a BM hunter tears rogues apart with BW + frost trap kiting.
Rogue + Priest is pretty much the most painful thing you can find as a hunter in 2v2.
ShS rogues should be the only real problem, warrs are easy if you have any team support at all.
Cool, thanks everyone. You pointed out a few things I had never really thought about before.^^
My PvP Knowledge has gone up by 1.
WooT.
My PvP Knowledge has gone up by 1.
WooT.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Warriors are really the only class that I have problems with. If I have help though, I can kill them no problem. If I know that a rogue is coming, it stands no chance at all. They only get me when I am in combat and concentrating on killing someone else and they stun-lock me.
BlackRevolution wrote:
Warriors are really the only class that I have problems with. If I have help though, I can kill them no problem. If I know that a rogue is coming, it stands no chance at all. They only get me when I am in combat and concentrating on killing someone else and they stun-lock me.
If you send your pet at them, they especially have to chance since the pet will "see" through their stealth. Plus any good BM hunter will get out of their stun while stunning them Intimidation.
That's what I'm saying Fuzzy. If I have any idea that there is a rogue in the area it's good as dead. If I am pre-occupied and doing something else and have full attention on that and nothing else; that is when the rogue has a fair chance of killing me. Then it is still leaning in my favor.
fuzzzywuzy wrote:
If you send your pet at them, they especially have to chance since the pet will "see" through their stealth. Plus any good BM hunter will get out of their stun while stunning them Intimidation.
You can't use intimidation while stunned can you? I did a fair amount of BG's this weekend getting ready for S2 gear and it was the Rogues that just owned me. I would spam intimidation but it just wouldn't work. I was assuming it was not going off because I was stunned the entire time though more than once my intimidation hit right when I died so I had a stunned rogue standing over my dead body.
That'll change when you get better gear though.
More resillience quickly ups your survivability :)
More resillience quickly ups your survivability :)
ya, my hp is low too, I do keep a PvP set in my bank to up my stam a bit when I jump into a BG. I am just trying to gear myself up for heriocs/kara and just want a couple PvP pieces so I am willing to suffer through it a little until I get the 2-3 pieces that I want.
BlackRevolution wrote:
That's what I'm saying Fuzzy. If I have any idea that there is a rogue in the area it's good as dead. If I am pre-occupied and doing something else and have full attention on that and nothing else; that is when the rogue has a fair chance of killing me. Then it is still leaning in my favor.
I win most Rogue fights even if they get the opener from stealth. BW and run straight forward while dropping a snake trap. Get range, start the kite. Intimidate if he manages to get close again.
Druids are my bane. They are the only fight I feel that I have less than a 50% win rate on.
Warlocks are MAD, I can win and still die if I can't drop out of combat and eat. All other cloth go down fast. Paladins can be tough if I don't have room to kite, such as on the roof in WSG, and they do take forever to kill so any mistake can cause a loss. Resto Shaman can hurt a lot with LB even while healing through my damage. Warriors have huge piles of health and if they get close for any amount of time it's over.
That's about it.
For me it's warriors and shamans. Warriors have intercept and spamstring. Shamans have frost shock, heals, and just hurt me a lot. Druids are usually 50-50, depending on if they get the jump on me or not.
As for beating a hunter as a mage, get a bigger crit rating. Mages PvP live and die on crits. Getting a crit for half my health is what the pros call "a bad thing." Frostbolt so they can't run, frost nova pet, use the flame nova (dunno the name) the instant fire spell, and scorch. From there spam arcane aoe in their melee range. Mouse moving makes this very easy. EDIT: I'm not saying this will work 100% of the time, but it's a strategy I've seen work more often than others.
Oh, and like I said, pray for crits.
Edited, Jun 25th 2008 11:10am by MrEnglish
As for beating a hunter as a mage, get a bigger crit rating. Mages PvP live and die on crits. Getting a crit for half my health is what the pros call "a bad thing." Frostbolt so they can't run, frost nova pet, use the flame nova (dunno the name) the instant fire spell, and scorch. From there spam arcane aoe in their melee range. Mouse moving makes this very easy. EDIT: I'm not saying this will work 100% of the time, but it's a strategy I've seen work more often than others.
Oh, and like I said, pray for crits.
Edited, Jun 25th 2008 11:10am by MrEnglish
why are you telling hunters how to beat a hunter using a mage?
Wow, each spec must vary significantly on what class ails them.
I only have problems with the melee classes (I'm MM), Paladin's first because of their ability to heal, it negates your dps. If you can catch a pally unawares of your attack, you can down them because you can hit them first with aimed and then silence at bubble time, generally forcing them to bubble too early. Rogues and Warriors are always tough.
I personally feel we can only rule the roost when all healing opposition is down. We really don't put out enough dps to overcome a target with healing backup by ourselves. Two high dps-ers can, but not one. One on one, I think we can beat any other class if the hunter is played right. Some have the advantage if they get the drop on you but most don't. If the hunter gets in the first shot, other classes are the ones on the bad side of the advantage edge. I think this applies to any hunter spec if the hunter is played even close to correctly.
I only have problems with the melee classes (I'm MM), Paladin's first because of their ability to heal, it negates your dps. If you can catch a pally unawares of your attack, you can down them because you can hit them first with aimed and then silence at bubble time, generally forcing them to bubble too early. Rogues and Warriors are always tough.
I personally feel we can only rule the roost when all healing opposition is down. We really don't put out enough dps to overcome a target with healing backup by ourselves. Two high dps-ers can, but not one. One on one, I think we can beat any other class if the hunter is played right. Some have the advantage if they get the drop on you but most don't. If the hunter gets in the first shot, other classes are the ones on the bad side of the advantage edge. I think this applies to any hunter spec if the hunter is played even close to correctly.
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why are you telling hunters how to beat a hunter using a mage?
The OP said he was a mage.
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I personally feel we can only rule the roost when all healing opposition is down. We really don't put out enough dps to overcome a target with healing backup by ourselves. Two high dps-ers can, but not one. One on one, I think we can beat any other class if the hunter is played right. Some have the advantage if they get the drop on you but most don't. If the hunter gets in the first shot, other classes are the ones on the bad side of the advantage edge. I think this applies to any hunter spec if the hunter is played even close to correctly.
Generally speaking, any class that gets the first hit will win. Generally.
Funny how all these hunters have different opinions on who they pwn and who is their bane. Some folks say they rule rogues and get demolished by warriors. Others hate druids while some spank them and call them Sally.
Personally speaking, BM should pwn any clothie, as long as their are no LOS issues (BW doesnt do much good if that lock is pole hugging and you cant get a shot off). Disc priest being the harest and biggest threat.
I find it much easier to deal with melee as MM than anything else. Intimidate has a 1 minute cooldown, so chances are you're only gonna be able to use it once. Rogues are much tougher than warriors because full stacks of crippling poison slow much more than hamstring. I can still effectively kite a warrior with frost traps and wing clips, even with hamstrung. Not so easy with rogues, especially SS rogues. Treat pallies just like warriors for the most part. Throw in a viper sting to help a little bit. Holy pallies are a little harder becuase they have a big mana pool. I can go OOM trying to burn them down while they are just using FoL on themselves and outlast me sometimes (sad, but it's happened).
Druids should be ez for any hunter, with Boomkins giving you the most trouble (stupid trees). They go feral, and you scare beast. If they are healing themselves, then they cant dps you, so you viper sting them, get off as many arcanse shots as you can, which dispell hots and whatever other buffs they have, and just keep pounding. Throw in aimed shot if your not having to chase him. May take a while, but eventually they will wear down. Resto shammies are harder to burn through IMO because the instant healz not having a long cd, and the armor buffs they get when they crit heal themselves. Still not hard, but may take awhile.
Personally speaking, BM should pwn any clothie, as long as their are no LOS issues (BW doesnt do much good if that lock is pole hugging and you cant get a shot off). Disc priest being the harest and biggest threat.
I find it much easier to deal with melee as MM than anything else. Intimidate has a 1 minute cooldown, so chances are you're only gonna be able to use it once. Rogues are much tougher than warriors because full stacks of crippling poison slow much more than hamstring. I can still effectively kite a warrior with frost traps and wing clips, even with hamstrung. Not so easy with rogues, especially SS rogues. Treat pallies just like warriors for the most part. Throw in a viper sting to help a little bit. Holy pallies are a little harder becuase they have a big mana pool. I can go OOM trying to burn them down while they are just using FoL on themselves and outlast me sometimes (sad, but it's happened).
Druids should be ez for any hunter, with Boomkins giving you the most trouble (stupid trees). They go feral, and you scare beast. If they are healing themselves, then they cant dps you, so you viper sting them, get off as many arcanse shots as you can, which dispell hots and whatever other buffs they have, and just keep pounding. Throw in aimed shot if your not having to chase him. May take a while, but eventually they will wear down. Resto shammies are harder to burn through IMO because the instant healz not having a long cd, and the armor buffs they get when they crit heal themselves. Still not hard, but may take awhile.
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Druids should be ez for any hunter, with Boomkins giving you the most trouble (stupid trees). They go feral, and you scare beast. If they are healing themselves, then they cant dps you, so you viper sting them, get off as many arcanse shots as you can, which dispell hots and whatever other buffs they have, and just keep pounding. Throw in aimed shot if your not having to chase him. May take a while, but eventually they will wear down. Resto shammies are harder to burn through IMO because the instant healz not having a long cd, and the armor buffs they get when they crit heal themselves. Still not hard, but may take awhile.
Arcane shot is not guaranteed to dispell, and if they're healing you're going to get one, MAYBE 2 arcane shots off during their HT, at which point they're back to full. The hardest druid to kill should be a resto, just because they NEVER DIE. They have instant HT every 3 min, 3k+ heals every 15 seconds, and Regrowth can hit for upwards of 6k on a crit.
And it's funny how you laugh at everyone for having different opinions, then inject your own.
All Depends on the player. I have a 70 Rogue Hunter and Warrior, on my Rogue I can beat Hunters pretty easily if I can get a good Vanish off During there BM. On my Warrior BM is the hardest for me since there is no way for me to slow them down. Not sure how it is with the other classes.
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