I'm confused as to the point of using Slam over heroic strike...I've got a level 32 warrior, and at this point my Heroic Strike has a larger damage bonus than Slam...so why would I rather use Slam?
I realize that HS has a larger threat gain from its use...but especially in solo, threat isn't an issue.
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Heroic Strike vs. SlamFollow
i wouldnt use slam unless you have imp slam.
The reason then, is that if timed correctly it will only take .5 sec off your swing timer and still allow you to gain rage from autoattacks. my attack sequence while leveling was generally charge>Autoattack>slam>autoattack>slam>repeat.
You would have enough rage to follow every auto hit with a slam, whereas heroic strike takes the place of your white hit and you dont gain any rage if you use solely HS. If you have a ton of rage, you can also heroic strike, followed by slam if you want.
The reason then, is that if timed correctly it will only take .5 sec off your swing timer and still allow you to gain rage from autoattacks. my attack sequence while leveling was generally charge>Autoattack>slam>autoattack>slam>repeat.
You would have enough rage to follow every auto hit with a slam, whereas heroic strike takes the place of your white hit and you dont gain any rage if you use solely HS. If you have a ton of rage, you can also heroic strike, followed by slam if you want.
3 posts
Ah I see, thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
I think slam without imp slam still performs better than heroic strike. And with that theory... damnit, now I gotta do math. I can't find anything specific right now that backs up my theory;
Ok. Slam with a 2h vs HS and a 2h. Slam doesn't work with d/w, don't try, it's like having a d/w MS build.
Lvl 32... So.. a blue 2h at that lvl, we'll go with the Viscous Hammer.
And we'll give around 500 ap with BS (~35.7 dps).
2.9 speed, 65.9 dps, 120 average hit white. Lvl 30 warrior.
Rage generation table (fixed for PEMDAS) from wowwiki.com;
So at lvl 30 120 damage per hit rage = (7.5 * 120 / (109 + 3.5 * 2.9)) / 2
(900 / 119.15) / 2 ~= 7.5
HS rotation;
0 --- White hit (120) - +7.5 rage - 7.5 rage
2.9 - White hit (240) - +7.5 rage - 15 rage
5.8 - HS ------ (404) - -15 rage -- 0 rage
This will repeat, with white crits giving more rage, to get in extra HS's. This gives around 70 dps all in all.
Slam rotation;
0 --- White hit (120) - +7.5 rage - 7.5 rage
2.9 - White hit (240) - +7.5 rage - 15 rage
4.4 - Slam ---- (396) - -15 rage -- 0 rage
This will repeat, with white crits giving more rage, etc... this is around 90 dps.
Imp slam rotation;
0 --- White hit (120) - +7.5 rage - 7.5 rage
2.9 - White hit (240) - +7.5 rage - 15 rage
3.4 - Slam ---- (396) - -15 rage -- 0 rage
This again, will repeat, etc... 116 dps.
This doesn't take into account crits, but that should actually help out slam more than HS, as you'll have more attacks per minute with slam than with HS.
Ok. Slam with a 2h vs HS and a 2h. Slam doesn't work with d/w, don't try, it's like having a d/w MS build.
Lvl 32... So.. a blue 2h at that lvl, we'll go with the Viscous Hammer.
And we'll give around 500 ap with BS (~35.7 dps).
2.9 speed, 65.9 dps, 120 average hit white. Lvl 30 warrior.
Rage generation table (fixed for PEMDAS) from wowwiki.com;
Quote:
R: rage generated d: damage amount c: rage conversion value s: weapon speed f: hit factor R = (7.5d / (c + fs)) / 2 = 3.75d / (c + fs) / 2 = 15d / (4c + fs) / 2 Player Level c 10 37.4 20 72.4 30 109.3 40 147.9 50 188.3 60 230.6 65 252.4 70 274.7 Weapon Hit type f Main Hand Normal Hit 3.5 Main Hand Critical Hit 7.0 Off Hand Normal Hit 1.75 Off Hand Critical Hit 3.5
So at lvl 30 120 damage per hit rage = (7.5 * 120 / (109 + 3.5 * 2.9)) / 2
(900 / 119.15) / 2 ~= 7.5
HS rotation;
0 --- White hit (120) - +7.5 rage - 7.5 rage
2.9 - White hit (240) - +7.5 rage - 15 rage
5.8 - HS ------ (404) - -15 rage -- 0 rage
This will repeat, with white crits giving more rage, to get in extra HS's. This gives around 70 dps all in all.
Slam rotation;
0 --- White hit (120) - +7.5 rage - 7.5 rage
2.9 - White hit (240) - +7.5 rage - 15 rage
4.4 - Slam ---- (396) - -15 rage -- 0 rage
This will repeat, with white crits giving more rage, etc... this is around 90 dps.
Imp slam rotation;
0 --- White hit (120) - +7.5 rage - 7.5 rage
2.9 - White hit (240) - +7.5 rage - 15 rage
3.4 - Slam ---- (396) - -15 rage -- 0 rage
This again, will repeat, etc... 116 dps.
This doesn't take into account crits, but that should actually help out slam more than HS, as you'll have more attacks per minute with slam than with HS.
11 posts
If its not beneficial for a dual wielder to use Slam, what is the best way to go if you do want to dual wield? I've been mainly using HS with Overpower when available but my rage meter stays bottomed out. Also I hear Fury is the way to go for a dual wielder but it seems I use HS more than anything else. I typically go Charge> Demo. Shout> HS. I also use hamstring on humanoid mobs when they get low. I can take 2 mobs my level at the same time but more than that and I'm toast. Oh yeah I'm lev. 31 atm.
For leveling until 36, HS is all you get until whirlwind at 36. But that's purely a berserker stance ability, and i don't recommend it for leveling.
You just gotta keep using HS with d/w until BT in fury. D/w warriors use HS tell 70 and beyond.
::EDIT::
Cleave works well too.
Edited, Jun 24th 2008 1:14pm by devioususer
You just gotta keep using HS with d/w until BT in fury. D/w warriors use HS tell 70 and beyond.
::EDIT::
Cleave works well too.
Edited, Jun 24th 2008 1:14pm by devioususer
Scholar
34 posts
Slam works completely differently from heroic strike. Ok, at level 32 heroic strike causes your next attack to deal +58 damage. Slam causes an additional attack with a +32 damage bonus. Not simply an extra 32 damage, but an entirely NEW attack. This new attack will cause well over 32 damage, and should definitely deal more than a mere 58 damage.
In regards to rage, both attacks tend to cost more than their tooltip of 15. Heroic strike turns your next white attack into a yellow attack, which generates no rage, while slam (non-talented) delays your next attack by 1.5 seconds plus probably a bit extra thanks to latency, shifting your damage-dealt rage generation back that amount of time.
In regards to rage, both attacks tend to cost more than their tooltip of 15. Heroic strike turns your next white attack into a yellow attack, which generates no rage, while slam (non-talented) delays your next attack by 1.5 seconds plus probably a bit extra thanks to latency, shifting your damage-dealt rage generation back that amount of time.
More or less yeah... well.. kinda sorta.
HS replaces your next main hand white attack (or 2h) which is your auto attack. This replacement causes you to deal yellow damage and not gain rage from the strike.
Slam resets your swing timer, which resets both hands when d/w (which is a strong reason not to use it while d/w'ing), and is a channeled attack. The ONLY channeled attack for warriors.
Slam doesn't replace your next white attack when used. And when properly used it functions very well.
HS adds your swing time to on next hit for calculations. While slam, with a decent addon (like quartz or abar) you can time it to add a smaller amount of time to your rotation for an overall increase to DPS. Time is the key between the two in context. 2nd is that slam generates an additional attack, which helps with flurry/crits/etc.
You can use both in a rotation, but you generally don't get excessive rage when using slam after every white attack until later in levels when you have MS and WW available in a raid/pvp situation...
The rotation for PvE DPS warriors in raid is to white attack -> slam -> white attack -> slam -> ms -> white attack -> slam -> ww
Generally you don't get enough rage to use MS and WW on cooldown and keep a slam rotation going.
The most important part of slam is that you use it immediately after a white attack. Which is why a swing timer is very useful. Even with lag, you can time your attacks very accurately, and provide 'twice' the dps than white hitting alone.
May it be noted that imp MS, if you can keep MS on cooldown (30 rage every 5 seconds) provides around as much or more DPS than imp slam does alone. But you lose out on flurry that way. Which flurry is a significant increase in DPS for most warriors, thus is not an increase to overall dps.
Slam rotations with a faster 2h actually increase DPS slightly, but you lose out on MS and WW damage that way, and create a pretty flat curve for weapon speeds related to DPS curves.
HS replaces your next main hand white attack (or 2h) which is your auto attack. This replacement causes you to deal yellow damage and not gain rage from the strike.
Slam resets your swing timer, which resets both hands when d/w (which is a strong reason not to use it while d/w'ing), and is a channeled attack. The ONLY channeled attack for warriors.
Slam doesn't replace your next white attack when used. And when properly used it functions very well.
HS adds your swing time to on next hit for calculations. While slam, with a decent addon (like quartz or abar) you can time it to add a smaller amount of time to your rotation for an overall increase to DPS. Time is the key between the two in context. 2nd is that slam generates an additional attack, which helps with flurry/crits/etc.
You can use both in a rotation, but you generally don't get excessive rage when using slam after every white attack until later in levels when you have MS and WW available in a raid/pvp situation...
The rotation for PvE DPS warriors in raid is to white attack -> slam -> white attack -> slam -> ms -> white attack -> slam -> ww
Generally you don't get enough rage to use MS and WW on cooldown and keep a slam rotation going.
The most important part of slam is that you use it immediately after a white attack. Which is why a swing timer is very useful. Even with lag, you can time your attacks very accurately, and provide 'twice' the dps than white hitting alone.
May it be noted that imp MS, if you can keep MS on cooldown (30 rage every 5 seconds) provides around as much or more DPS than imp slam does alone. But you lose out on flurry that way. Which flurry is a significant increase in DPS for most warriors, thus is not an increase to overall dps.
Slam rotations with a faster 2h actually increase DPS slightly, but you lose out on MS and WW damage that way, and create a pretty flat curve for weapon speeds related to DPS curves.
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