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Killing Paladins as BMFollow

#27 Jun 24 2008 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Aethien wrote:
Everyone knows it has nothing to do with RP and it's purely and only to gain an advantage over your opponent in arena that shouldnt be there.
So even if it isnt cheating, I still wont do it because I consider it cheating.

Hmmm, an advantage that should not be there. How's that? I mean, if your opponents are running the default UI, how is setting your Pet name to yourself or your partner in any way an advantage? It isn't. However, if your opponent is running with a pile of macros, you know, to give them an advantage against you, then this naming trick might work to counter that somewhat.

So what we have here are a series of measures and counter-measures. And all is fair in a time of war.
#28 Jun 24 2008 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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Kompera wrote:
Aethien wrote:
Everyone knows it has nothing to do with RP and it's purely and only to gain an advantage over your opponent in arena that shouldnt be there.
So even if it isnt cheating, I still wont do it because I consider it cheating.

Hmmm, an advantage that should not be there. How's that? I mean, if your opponents are running the default UI, how is setting your Pet name to yourself or your partner in any way an advantage? It isn't. However, if your opponent is running with a pile of macros, you know, to give them an advantage against you, then this naming trick might work to counter that somewhat.

So what we have here are a series of measures and counter-measures. And all is fair in a time of war.

Proximo targets by using a /tar <name>. If I'm targeting Aethien and his pet is named the same, odds are I'll come up with the pet first (in fact always in my experience, it's how Blizz prioritizes the /tar function).

Anyway, as has been discussed in this thread, there are a few basic things that hunters need to survive in 2v2:

1) kiting/LOS ability. Knowing when to LOS and when to kite are very, very big deals.

2) Viper Sting. By far the best ability a hunter has in arena, bar none.

3) Scorpid pet. I don't care if anyone likes their cat or ravager, it's a subpar pet and if you want to do well in arena, get a scorpid. Reason being is you can hide a Viper in the scorpid poisons, letting you get a full-duration sting without having it get dispelled.

4) A healer. I can think of no good hunter comps that don't include a healer right now. Druids and priests are your friends. Paladins and shamans will get you killed.

If you're set on going with a double DPS hunter setup, here are some things that need to happen to do well:

You need to focus the paladin's DPSer while keeping Aimed Shot up. Kiting over traps and LOSing to bandage every minute while keeping both pets on the healer (except for druids, split your pets on druid teams) will help survivability.

As far as warrior/paladin goes, it should be easy. If you stay BM, make sure to keep arcane shots going on the warrior to dispel buffs, keep your pets on the paladin, and keep both Vipers up. Keep the warrior running over traps. One of two things will happen:

1) The warrior will drop dangerously low. The paladin will BoP to get heals off without you putting up damage. Arcane shot the BoP off. Pop TBW and take the warrior down. GG.

2) The paladin will run near OOM. GG, you've probably lost this one, unless the paladin has **** gear.

Lock/paladin will gib your team pretty hard, and there really aren't any other good paladin teams in 2s. Paladin teams simply aren't seen past 1800s or so (or if they are, they're pro and thus extremely rare), so I wouldn't worry about it.

You need a better comp if you want to do well in 2s, though.
#29 Jun 24 2008 at 5:57 AM Rating: Default
Overlord Theophany wrote:

4) A healer. I can think of no good hunter comps that don't include a healer right now. Druids and priests are your friends. Paladins and shamans will get you killed.
The rest is definitely quoted for... well, not truth but common sense anyway. Can't say anything against it. I just have a question as a somewhat indifferent Arena player about this. Are HoTs really this important in Arena healing? Paladins are nigh uninterruptible with their FoL spam and adds decent buffs. Shamans... well, I only have experience with Shamans as group/raid healers, so I don't know too much about them in PvP.

Is there a reason for Druids and Priests I can't see?
#30 Jun 24 2008 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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It just took a while to get that damn druid down :P


Which is why you team with them.

Just go back to MM, and let your friend stay BM. YAY VARIATION!
#31 Jun 24 2008 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Druids can Moonkin OR Insect Swarm, Charge, Bash, etc.
#32 Jun 24 2008 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Is there a reason for Druids and Priests I can't see?
Both druids and priests are tougher than a paladin or shaman to kill, priests have mana burn to help put pressure on the opponent as well as fear to help CC.
Druids are kind of like... CC gods with cyclone, root, feral charge, bash, whatever the catstun is called.
Not to mention that they can do some dps too, as well as their near CC immunity.

Oh, and HoT's allow them to run away from enemy fire, unlike a shaman or paladin who needs to be in LoS to heal you, and thus can be targeted by whatever your opponent has in the way of CC/mana draining.
#33 Jun 24 2008 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, pretty much what Aethien said.

Druids and priests are immensely strong in 2v2 and 3v3 where there is only 1 or 2 DPS max to focus on their DPS class or them. Priests are the masters of survivability; I've seen my priest from 5s run around with literally 10 people on him in a BG with no Pain Suppression up and it took them a good 30 seconds to kill him, where every other healer would be down instantly.

Add to that, priests completely nullify anything a paladin can toss out, and druids can just stack up their hots and hump a pillar for the next 5 mins, come back stack hots, hump a pillar for 5 mins, and you have the two best healing classes.

Paladins are honestly the ********* healer in 2v2s because of it, but their direct healing is so huge that they're probably the #1 healer in 5s because of it. They're about tied with priests, because while priests aren't that great at direct healing or hots, their offensive dispelling, defensive dispelling, and mana burning completely ***** another team.

Keep in mind renew ticks for roughly 500-700 depending on the priest, prom heals for at least 1100, usually upwards of 1500-1700, and the priest can be running around a pillar while casting them.

Yeah FoL is a great heal, but CC training a paladin is retardedly easy. Locks and mages will absolutely rape a paladin.

Shamans are pretty amazing for warriors for WF. Being basically able to 4 shot someone is ridiculous.

And yeah, I've been 4 shot by a warrior with 11k HP, 355 resilience, Cheat Death, and 25% dodge.
#34 Jun 24 2008 at 6:17 PM Rating: Default
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1,292 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Kompera wrote:
Aethien wrote:
Everyone knows it has nothing to do with RP and it's purely and only to gain an advantage over your opponent in arena that shouldnt be there.
So even if it isnt cheating, I still wont do it because I consider it cheating.

Hmmm, an advantage that should not be there. How's that? I mean, if your opponents are running the default UI, how is setting your Pet name to yourself or your partner in any way an advantage? It isn't. However, if your opponent is running with a pile of macros, you know, to give them an advantage against you, then this naming trick might work to counter that somewhat.

So what we have here are a series of measures and counter-measures. And all is fair in a time of war.

Proximo targets by using a /tar <name>. If I'm targeting Aethien and his pet is named the same, odds are I'll come up with the pet first (in fact always in my experience, it's how Blizz prioritizes the /tar function).

Yes, I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is that I don't see the Pet naming strategy to be any more of an exploit than using a UI mod intended to give you an advantage. UI mods are legal and accepted, and so is naming your Pet. Naming your Pet after yourself or your Arena partner in order to try to counter a commonly used UI mod is just good sound strategy. To paraphrase Marie-Antoinette, "Let them eat click!"
#35 Jun 24 2008 at 9:28 PM Rating: Default
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13,048 posts
Kompera wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Kompera wrote:
Aethien wrote:
Everyone knows it has nothing to do with RP and it's purely and only to gain an advantage over your opponent in arena that shouldnt be there.
So even if it isnt cheating, I still wont do it because I consider it cheating.

Hmmm, an advantage that should not be there. How's that? I mean, if your opponents are running the default UI, how is setting your Pet name to yourself or your partner in any way an advantage? It isn't. However, if your opponent is running with a pile of macros, you know, to give them an advantage against you, then this naming trick might work to counter that somewhat.

So what we have here are a series of measures and counter-measures. And all is fair in a time of war.

Proximo targets by using a /tar <name>. If I'm targeting Aethien and his pet is named the same, odds are I'll come up with the pet first (in fact always in my experience, it's how Blizz prioritizes the /tar function).

Yes, I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is that I don't see the Pet naming strategy to be any more of an exploit than using a UI mod intended to give you an advantage. UI mods are legal and accepted, and so is naming your Pet. Naming your Pet after yourself or your Arena partner in order to try to counter a commonly used UI mod is just good sound strategy. To paraphrase Marie-Antoinette, "Let them eat click!"

Are you sure that was a "ck" and not a "t"? Smiley: tongue

But yeah, I can see how people can think that, but it's basically an unfair advantage for the hunter. Warlocks can't do that.
#36 Jun 24 2008 at 9:51 PM Rating: Default
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1,292 posts
By the way, welcome back. I haven't seen you around here in a long while.
#37 Jun 24 2008 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
Kompera wrote:
By the way, welcome back. I haven't seen you around here in a long while.
Theo only pops up when there are PvP threads.
It's like a sixth sense or something...


PvP threads... over there..... must... post!
#38 Jun 24 2008 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
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13,048 posts
Aethien wrote:
Kompera wrote:
By the way, welcome back. I haven't seen you around here in a long while.
Theo only pops up when there are PvP threads.
It's like a sixth sense or something...


PvP threads... over there..... must... post!

Yeah, kinda. I really can't help it, I love PvP.

It helps that I'm decent at it, but I still maintain that anyone that works hard can be good too.

Kompera wrote:
By the way, welcome back. I haven't seen you around here in a long while.

Thanks. I've been thinking about leveling my horde-side hunter, but then I realized what a pain in the *** it would be to get him decked out in all the PvP finery I take for granted on my rogue.

Either way though, I'm interested in pretty much all aspects of arena except for warrior (warrior arena = "ME SMASH FACE RAR!"), and I've been getting a few PMs about PvP from other classes.

Not to say I'm experienced in PvP as those classes, but I know how higher-tier players play, and a very good friend of mine is pretty damn good at hunter.
#39 Jun 24 2008 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
Getting a hunter some starter PvP gear is easy though, we remain the kings of BG's.
And even with crapgear, as BM you are still hard to kill for those 18 seconds :P


And who knows, maybe you'll enjoy being destroyed by Rogues for a while >:)
#40 Jun 24 2008 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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13,048 posts
Aethien wrote:
Getting a hunter some starter PvP gear is easy though, we remain the kings of BG's.
And even with crapgear, as BM you are still hard to kill for those 18 seconds :P


And who knows, maybe you'll enjoy being destroyed by Rogues for a while >:)

Nah, any time I play PvP on any other toon I start looking for CloS and Vanish for deathcoils, fears, etc.

On a warrior it would work (hi spell reflect), but every other class I blow some cooldown. On my priest I try and cast mass dispel or pain suppression and on my mage I evocate/use my water elemental.

It's bad.
#41 Jun 24 2008 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
Well... Blowing tBW on a fear/deathcoil isnt exactly a bad idea... :P

And that's just about the only cooldown BM hunters have, aside from intimidation wich isnt bad either.

Edited, Jun 25th 2008 10:00am by Aethien
#42 Jun 25 2008 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
Overlord Theophany and Aethien wrote:
Alot of interesting stuff...
I see. I was just considering going more heavily into PvP (not just World PvP) now that I am getting more active in WoW again. Will be costly Respecc wise, but still. *sigh* Now I've got tons of BGing to do so I can get a decent PvP starting point with S2 gear instead of starting out in T4-6 pieces with PvE gems/enchants. Anyway, thanks.

Resume PvP anecdote listings...
#43 Jun 25 2008 at 2:33 AM Rating: Good
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13,048 posts
Aethien wrote:
Well... Blowing tBW on a fear/deathcoil isnt exactly a bad idea... :P

And that's just about the only cooldown BM hunters have, aside from intimidation wich isnt bad either.

Edited, Jun 25th 2008 10:00am by Aethien

I'd be playing as MM or a hybrid survival build for BGs. SiS is too good to pass up for a 18 second BoF/WotF/etc.
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